Hardware So how powerful IS the 3DS?

[Sebastian]

Sometimes, only a little people or guys know for sure what that actual hardware in the 3DS actually is. The CPU has been speculated upon many times, and remains unconfirmed. Until actual details emerge, we all cannot know about this.

 

[granville]

We've very little information in terms of raw specs. Someone mentioned an ARM11 being in header info on 3DS game dumps. Possible, but useless without knowing the clock speed or whether it's a multicore chip. We know a Pica200 powers the graphics, but we don't know WHICH version of the chip this uses. What that means is that we can't say what sort of polygon power the 3DS has.

Here is what I could gather on the 3ds

CPU
RISC ARM 11 x2 @ 266Mhz (? flops)
128 MB ram
GPU
3DS: PICA 200 @ 133 Mhz
4 MB VRAM 800 Mpixels/second 15 Mpolygons/second ( performance rated at 200Mhz)

For the gpu performances, we have to keep in mind that the 3ds has to render 2 different frame simultaneously which should halves the apparent performance.

for the comparison:
GPU:
PSP
111-166 mhz, 2MB vram 664 Mpixels/second 33 Mpolygons/second
PS2
Graphics Synthesizer @ 147 Mhz
4 MB VRAM 2 350 Mpixels/second 75 Mpolygons/second


Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICA200
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/09/22/ninte...s-specs-leaked/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2
http://www.kickoffworld.net/wikickoff/inde...e=PlayStation_2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psp

None of those were ever confirmed by actual developer sources sadly. They fail to take into account that the Pica200 is a SERIES of gpu's not a single gpu. The only thing ever confirmed was the RAM, which is fast. We don't even know if the ARM11 chip is multicore either.

 

[koji2009]

Granville hit it directly on the nose... When the 3DS was first shown, Kojima's crew made a tech demo from scratch showing what they could do with the 3DS... He stated that it was only for show and that he hadn't really planned on releasing a port of MGS3. He wanted to make a MGS game, but hadn't had one in mind.

Then the outpouring of ZOMG MGS3 FOR NINTENDO RAWR! happened and Kojima felt he had to release the game on 3DS... But here's the thing, it would take a lot of effort to completely remake MGS3... Money he could spend in his other titles. He also already has a team working on porting MGS3 to PS3... So why remake the game twice for different systems when for a much smaller price he can simply port the existing PS2 game to them both.

That's why the gameplay looks so crappy and slow right now... it's not optimized. It doesn't take advantage of any of the 3DS strengths and it's still optimized to take advantage of the PS2's. Now, there is still plenty of time before release and they could tune up the game significantly before then, but we aren't going to see all the brilliant effects that we did for the original demo.



It's all about programming philosophies between native and porting... In native programming it's generally easier to optimize for speed first and fix bugs later since you're building the entire game based on the hardware available. With porting, it's the exact opposite, you optimize for compatibility first (just trying to get the non-native game running and running correctly) THEN you optimize for speed once you're sure everything is functioning.

 

[chris888222]

I really hope MGS SE 3D would look as good as the naked sample. The E3 video was obviously rushed

 

[Ikki]

If you want to have more of an idea, check out Tekken 3D too

http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6318018/e3-20...ch-demo-preview

And it's been said that it runs at 60 FPS with 3D enabled.


It may fall behind the Vita but I'd say it's got its power

 

[chris888222]

The Vita is powerful to the extent that it's like a mini-PS3

It isn't really a fair comparison.

The 3DS is very powerful actually, FAR more powerful than the DSi.

 

[Ikki]

The Vita is powerful to the extent that it's like a mini-PS3

It isn't really a fair comparison.

The 3DS is very powerful actually, FAR more powerful than the DSi.

That's because the DSi isn't powerful at all.

And it's the competition. The comparison is always there.

 

[Melter]

as with all consoles, graphics will get considerably better over time as developers learn how to use the hardware more efficiently and optimize their code.

While the hardware may not be as powerful as home consoles, the screen resolution is much smaller. This means that textures can be lower resolution,that not using as much anti-aliasing (or not at all) will have less of an impact on the image, etc. This all means less resources taken from the hardware.

One of the launch titles, SSF4 3D already looks great on the 3DS, so it is a sign that future games will look amazing.

 

[koji2009]

If you want to have more of an idea, check out Tekken 3D too

http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6318018/e3-20...ch-demo-preview

And it's been said that it runs at 60 FPS with 3D enabled.


It may fall behind the Vita but I'd say it's got its power

But again, that's a tech demo and not a game... It represents what they believe they can do, but until it's in some sort of playable form, you should take that with a grain of salt less you get disappointed when the "real" stuff starts to be shown.

 

[granville]

If you want to have more of an idea, check out Tekken 3D too

http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6318018/e3-20...ch-demo-preview

And it's been said that it runs at 60 FPS with 3D enabled.


It may fall behind the Vita but I'd say it's got its power

But again, that's a tech demo and not a game... It represents what they believe they can do, but until it's in some sort of playable form, you should take that with a grain of salt less you get disappointed when the "real" stuff starts to be shown.

Except the developers already said the game can look as good as this and that they're aiming for 60fps ingame for 3D mode. I'll also tell you that there are still better looking 3DS games than that, Resident Evil Revelations is one example. It's an actual game too.

 

[Nathan-NL]

Not very powerful I'm afraid

 

[pachura]

The Naked Sample is just a video... Not representing any game.
It's not a video. It was running real-time.
Reportedly, at some Nintendo shows, the "Naked sample" was shown in a form of a 3D video, with no possibility to move your head. I've read some guy's blog entry complaining about the low bitrate of MGS3 video.

the screen resolution is much smaller. (...) not using as much anti-aliasing (or not at all) will have less of an impact on the image
Quite the contrary - low resolution produces more jaggies and begs for antialiasing. I would really like 3DS to use more AA because of its very low resolution. Fortunately, they are starting to do apply it now (e.g. in Pokedex, eShop...)

QUOTE(granville @ Jun 10 2011, 08:42 PM) Except the developers already said the game can look as good as this

Well, I wouldn't believe developers' bragging. See what's happened with MGS which was supposed to look even better than the "Naked Sample" ? And early comments from developers saying that 3DS is comparable to Xbox360 ?

QUOTE(granville @ Jun 10 2011, 08:42 PM)

there are still better looking 3DS games than that, Resident Evil Revelations is one xample. It's an actual game too.

No, it's not an actual game. It hasn't been released yet.

 

[DiscostewSM]

Reportedly, at some Nintendo shows, the "Naked sample" was shown in a form of a 3D video, with no possibility to move your head. I've read some guy's blog entry complaining about the low bitrate of MGS3 video.
Last year's E3 had the "Naked Sample" on demo 3DS units, which allowed changing the camera angle. If it was just a video, then it was handling a lot of video streams at once to allow for different view points at the user's will, as well as additional streams with different 3D levels active. I don't doubt that at other viewings where they were not giving participants a hand-on approach would have just a video.

Well, I wouldn't believe developers' bragging. See what's happened with MGS which was supposed to look even better than the "Naked Sample" ? And early comments from developers saying that 3DS is comparable to Xbox360 ?
The MGS we are getting for the 3DS is a port, which already has a game engine that was optimized for the PS2. The architectures of the PS2 and 3DS are different, in that they each can handle different things better, such as certain CPU instructions. Also consider the PS3 is getting a port as well, but because we all know the PS3 is far superior to the 3DS, we won't see the problems there like we do with the 3DS version. Can they bring out something that looks better than the "Naked Sample"? Sure they can, but instead, they made the decision to just make a port, as that counts for 1 game on 2 different platforms rather than work on 2 different games.

As far as XBox360 comparisons, I'm sure many people already mentioned that it was based on the kind of things the 3DS can do, like shaders. It definitely doesn't have the polygon count, but I don't recall developers being specific in how it was comparable, only that is was.

QUOTE(granville @ Jun 10 2011, 08:42 PM)

there are still better looking 3DS games than that, Resident Evil Revelations is one xample. It's an actual game too.

No, it's not an actual game. It hasn't been released yet.

Um, yes it is. An unreleased, but in-development, game is still a game, and as it is still in development, it means there's always the possibility of more improvements.

 

[granville]

Resident Evil Revelations is a game, as opposed to a tech demo. We know how it looks, you can't just bend the rules and expect people to buy your argument just because it hasn't been released in stores. It even has a demo attached to Mercs 3D. What more would you want? >_>

We don't know whether any developers ever said 3DS was as powerful as 360 or PS3, that was a report from IGN based on their "anonymous insiders". They could have made it up for all we know. It was always a laughable statements, no one ever took it seriously and no one knows which developer (if any) actually said that. IGN has made up bullcrap before about the 3DS and other systems, they always fail to cite their sources as well, immediately invalidating anything they say. They're not a trustworthy news source after all the crap they've pulled.

We already have plenty of game examples of what sort of real power the 3DS has. MGS3D is just a lazy port, nothing else to it. It's likely that they decided to outsource it to a lazy developer or something. It may also not be finished (though no one should care as we have better proof). RE:R is a real testament and should speak much louder than words.

Naked Sample was not a video, we have previews and actual video from the showfloor of people who were able to control the camera with the analog slider. I can provide proof if you like. Whether it was shown at some events in form of a video is a pointless arguments. At E3 2010, the demo was running in real time for you to see and control the camera.

The 3DS can be specifically compared to somewhere in the range of Gamecube or Wii in raw power. It has modern shades that make games look better though, that's why some games tend to be comparable to PS3 or 360 games. That's basically how it is. We don't actually know the raw CPU or GPU specs such as clock speed and polygon power. We do have plenty of proof that they can port some of the most impressive Wii games without any real downgrades besides resolution. We also know that if shaders are used effectively, games can potentially have superior graphics to even Wii.

 

[KingVamp]

Not very powerful I'm afraid

And the reason is?

I think it powerful enough base on the games.

 

[MakiManPR]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-...ent-evil/716080

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-...ent-evil/716082

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-...ent-evil/716084

Devs just have to create good software for it like Capcom is doing

 

[Ikki]

The thing is that most developers aren't familiar with the system yet. So they're staying low.


As for the Naked Sample and the actual Snake Eater 3D, the lazy ass port we're getting already needs to use 4GB of storage from the cartridge when Nintendo wants the games to be 2GB or less for now, making it look like the Naked Sample would be possible but I don't think Nintendo is okay with that.

So my guesses are; a, Konami is lazy, b, they prefer to just use the same base for the HD collection and the 3D edition, c, Nintendo thinks they're being flexible enough with letting them use 4GB.


Personally, I'd go with a.

 

[granville]

MGS3D doesn't require any more than a 4GB cart, the original was on a single DVD roughly around 4GB. Should be enough. Either the game isn't finished (possible) or they just decided to make a lazy port because people are inevitably going to buy it whether they put effort into it or not (also possible). Probably took the easy way out, but lets wait until we see the final game.

 

[Ikki]

MGS3D doesn't require any more than a 4GB cart, the original was on a single DVD roughly around 4GB. Should be enough. Either the game isn't finished (possible) or they just decided to make a lazy port because people are inevitably going to buy it whether they put effort into it or not (also possible). Probably took the easy way out, but lets wait until we see the final game.

The ISO size is 4.3GB ±

I'm still sticking with Konami's laziness though.

 

[xile6]

Dont know but i know MGS looks nice. Even a little better then on the ps2.
also if you think about it, there using a smaller szie so to make the graphic look good doesnt take as much as for a ps3 on a 42inch lcd. But from what some nintendo dev have said. (conduit) The 3ds is more powerful then the Wii