September 26

[nryn99]

What would happen even if it DID hit us?

People would die, I'm guessing.

Good, people need to die. Not trying to be a coldhearted dick. But it's true.

If that's the case, why don't you gather a bunch of people who think the same way, and you can all kill yourselves.

I agree, I dont see why people like DroRox and Brian117 and people who think the way they do, dont just commit suicide, because what makes them think they're so special that they should live and others deserve die.

Did I, or DroRox ever say people deserve to die? I don't think so. Did I, or DroRox ever say we are special? I don't think so. Stop taking things out of proportion before you embarrass yourself.

I find it weird that the people telling me, and others to commit suicide haven't looked at the facts. Do you not think the world is becoming way too over populated? Do you not think that will cause problems in the future (although which it already has)? Do you think that in 3 years the world will be all dandy and clean? Because by the looks of it now, things are going to shit, and there may be multiple reasons to blame, but one would have to be because of the worlds population and causing disastrous man-made events and people not giving a shit what happens if they partake.

Then we have the economy,too many people trying to find jobs, too many people jobless who result to theft to pay their bills or buy their food. And it all continues on with the fact there are too many people inheriting this planet and there are natural events to help reduce that.

Maybe, my suggestion of suicide might have been over the top, now I reckon that Shinigami357 is a much better idea for people who think that their life is worth more than others, plus I didn't slightly embarrass myself, it's you who have made yourself out to have a superiority complex. So in other words, you're saying that it's OK for others to die as long as its not you, because you're superior.

i'm not sure if it's about superiority complex.
they didn't say, other people should die. thus they may be included too. but as a human who want to live, surely you'd hope that you won't be in the 'dying list'.
the world really is crowded. there's just to much.

you just think it's not a good idea because you're bound by society's rules and traditions.

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

Did I, or DroRox ever say people deserve to die? I don't think so. Did I, or DroRox ever say we are special? I don't think so. Stop taking things out of proportion before you embarrass yourself.

I find it weird that the people telling me, and others to commit suicide haven't looked at the facts. Do you not think the world is becoming way too over populated? Do you not think that will cause problems in the future (although which it already has)? Do you think that in 3 years the world will be all dandy and clean? Because by the looks of it now, things are going to shit, and there may be multiple reasons to blame, but one would have to be because of the worlds population and causing disastrous man-made events and people not giving a shit what happens if they partake.

Then we have the economy,too many people trying to find jobs, too many people jobless who result to theft to pay their bills or buy their food. And it all continues on with the fact there are too many people inheriting this planet and there are natural events to help reduce that.

DroRox said 'Good, people need to die' and you agreed with him.
I don't care if the worlds overpopulated, it's not 'good' if innocent people die.
Seriously, if you really care about this overpopulation crisis, and think it's good when innocent people die, help by killing yourself.

 

[nryn99]

Did I, or DroRox ever say people deserve to die? I don't think so. Did I, or DroRox ever say we are special? I don't think so. Stop taking things out of proportion before you embarrass yourself.

I find it weird that the people telling me, and others to commit suicide haven't looked at the facts. Do you not think the world is becoming way too over populated? Do you not think that will cause problems in the future (although which it already has)? Do you think that in 3 years the world will be all dandy and clean? Because by the looks of it now, things are going to shit, and there may be multiple reasons to blame, but one would have to be because of the worlds population and causing disastrous man-made events and people not giving a shit what happens if they partake.

Then we have the economy,too many people trying to find jobs, too many people jobless who result to theft to pay their bills or buy their food. And it all continues on with the fact there are too many people inheriting this planet and there are natural events to help reduce that.

DroRox said 'Good, people need to die' and you agreed with him.
I don't care if the worlds overpopulated, it's not 'good' if innocent people die.
Seriously, if you really care about this overpopulation crisis, and think it's good when innocent people die, help by killing yourself.

innocent or not, based on our current society. everyone has the right to live.

 

[Zorua]

At least I'll have 25 days to play through the ambassador program games.

 

[pikachu945]

At least I'll have 25 days to play through the ambassador program games.

lol nothing will happen

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

Did I, or DroRox ever say people deserve to die? I don't think so. Did I, or DroRox ever say we are special? I don't think so. Stop taking things out of proportion before you embarrass yourself.

I find it weird that the people telling me, and others to commit suicide haven't looked at the facts. Do you not think the world is becoming way too over populated? Do you not think that will cause problems in the future (although which it already has)? Do you think that in 3 years the world will be all dandy and clean? Because by the looks of it now, things are going to shit, and there may be multiple reasons to blame, but one would have to be because of the worlds population and causing disastrous man-made events and people not giving a shit what happens if they partake.

Then we have the economy,too many people trying to find jobs, too many people jobless who result to theft to pay their bills or buy their food. And it all continues on with the fact there are too many people inheriting this planet and there are natural events to help reduce that.

DroRox said 'Good, people need to die' and you agreed with him.
I don't care if the worlds overpopulated, it's not 'good' if innocent people die.
Seriously, if you really care about this overpopulation crisis, and think it's good when innocent people die, help by killing yourself.

innocent or not, based on our current society. everyone has the right to live.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
That you're against the death penalty?

 

[nryn99]

Did I, or DroRox ever say people deserve to die? I don't think so. Did I, or DroRox ever say we are special? I don't think so. Stop taking things out of proportion before you embarrass yourself.

I find it weird that the people telling me, and others to commit suicide haven't looked at the facts. Do you not think the world is becoming way too over populated? Do you not think that will cause problems in the future (although which it already has)? Do you think that in 3 years the world will be all dandy and clean? Because by the looks of it now, things are going to shit, and there may be multiple reasons to blame, but one would have to be because of the worlds population and causing disastrous man-made events and people not giving a shit what happens if they partake.

Then we have the economy,too many people trying to find jobs, too many people jobless who result to theft to pay their bills or buy their food. And it all continues on with the fact there are too many people inheriting this planet and there are natural events to help reduce that.

DroRox said 'Good, people need to die' and you agreed with him.
I don't care if the worlds overpopulated, it's not 'good' if innocent people die.
Seriously, if you really care about this overpopulation crisis, and think it's good when innocent people die, help by killing yourself.

innocent or not, based on our current society. everyone has the right to live.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
That you're against the death penalty?

nope. i'm fine with it. but saying innocent people must have a higher chance of living than other people, i find that funny.

 

[Shinigami357]

i'm not sure if it's about superiority complex.
they didn't say, other people should die. thus they may be included too. but as a human who want to live, surely you'd hope that you won't be in the 'dying list'.
the world really is crowded. there's just to much.

you just think it's not a good idea because you're bound by society's rules and traditions.

A little illogic here.. Allow me...

When you say "people need/should die", then by any and all accounts that means other people. Since "people" is one of those collective nouns that you can't really count, it can be any number from 2 to... well, over 9000 shall we say? You are right when you say they may be included too, but since the count is from 2 to anywhere, then that means at least one other person is in that list, so to speak.



Anyway...

I disagree with the notion that the world is overpopulated, and thus people dying out is a solution [not a good one, but a solution, according to some claims]. Condemning any number of people to die because of a perceived anomaly in the number of our populace is a very naive way of thinking. That's very Kira, so to speak.

I think people fail to see how precious life is. Some might say all it takes is a sperm and an egg, but that's BS. The reality is, the physical aspect of anything isn't "life", it is the being itself that is "life". Let me clarify: "life" is the person, not his or her physical being. Thus, when a person is dead, the body stays [unless it got vaporized in a nuke or something].

I think people who think overpopulation is at all a good reason for people to die don't see this. When they look out there, they count heads, they see bodies taking up the planet's resources. They don't see the person as a person, to them it's just another body taking up space in a world that has so many more bodies. It's absolutely ridiculous, this point of view.

People aren't animated corpses. They are beings with a life just like you. Think about it.

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

nope. i'm fine with it. but saying innocent people must have a higher chance of living than other people, i find that funny.

I don't see any problem with thinking that innocent people have more of a right to live than say, a murderer.

 

[nryn99]

i'm not sure if it's about superiority complex.
they didn't say, other people should die. thus they may be included too. but as a human who want to live, surely you'd hope that you won't be in the 'dying list'.
the world really is crowded. there's just to much.

you just think it's not a good idea because you're bound by society's rules and traditions.


A little illogic here.. Allow me...

When you say "people need/should die", then by any and all accounts that means other people. Since "people" is one of those collective nouns that you can't really count, it can be any number from 2 to... well, over 9000 shall we say? You are right when you say they may be included too, but since the count is from 2 to anywhere, then that means at least one other person is in that list, so to speak.
okay, let me fix it. only other.

Anyway...

I disagree with the notion that the world is overpopulated, and thus people dying out is a solution [not a good one, but a solution, according to some claims]. Condemning any number of people to die because of a perceived anomaly in the number of our populace is a very naive way of thinking. That's very Kira, so to speak.

I think people fail to see how precious life is. Some might say all it takes is a sperm and an egg, but that's BS. The reality is, the physical aspect of anything isn't "life", it is the being itself that is "life". Let me clarify: "life" is the person, not his or her physical being. Thus, when a person is dead, the body stays [unless it got vaporized in a nuke or something].

I think people who think overpopulation is at all a good reason for people to die don't see this. When they look out there, they count heads, they see bodies taking up the planet's resources. They don't see the person as a person, to them it's just another body taking up space in a world that has so many more bodies. It's absolutely ridiculous, this point of view.

People aren't animated corpses. They are beings with a life just like you. Think about it.
i understand what you mean.
but separating yourself from being human. and go back to nature's way. you'll understand. it's not naive.
what you're thinking is what people are taught since long ago to avoid people from killing each other. rules made by man. an order to prevent humans from turning against each other. you may say we're humans and not animals. it's only because of the rules made by humans and what was put into our minds.

QUOTE(BobTheJoeBob @ Aug 29 2011, 11:50 PM) QUOTE(Narayan @ Aug 29 2011, 03:37 PM)

nope. i'm fine with it. but saying innocent people must have a higher chance of living than other people, i find that funny.

I don't see any problem with thinking that innocent people have more of a right to live than say, a murderer.

yeah, you're probably right. but why do they become murderers in the first place?
surely there's a reason behind it?

 

[Hells Malice]

what you're thinking is what people are taught since long ago to avoid people from killing each other. rules made by man. an order to prevent humans from turning against each other. you may say we're humans and not animals. it's only because of the rules made by humans and what was put into our minds.

Why the redundant statement. We're humans because we're civilized. We have rules and laws to abide by, and that's pretty much why humans rule the earth.

Frankly once you (a human) become uncivilized, and commit atrocities against your own kind...you're just an animal. You give up your humanity to pay for these atrocities, which is why the death penalty is a fantastic thing. Violent animals are killed so that they do not needlessly endanger us humans. So if you give up your humanity, you're just a pathetic, violent animal that needs to be put down.
Instead most of the time the law just plays catch and release with criminals and they go out and commit more atrocities...pathetic.

Anyways.
September 26th wont happen because Dark Souls is released on Oct 4, and the universe itself would stop an apocalypse for a chance to see that released.

 

[Shinigami357]

i understand what you mean.
but separating yourself from being human. and go back to nature's way. you'll understand. it's not naive.
what you're thinking is what people are taught since long ago to avoid people from killing each other. rules made by man. an order to prevent humans from turning against each other. you may say we're humans and not animals. it's only because of the rules made by humans and what was put into our minds.

Separate myself from being human? Go back to nature's way? What, the whole "Nature: red in tooth and claw" bit? Come on, you seriously believe that? If you take away the human part out of anyone, you wouldn't get an animal - you'd get a monster.

Rules. Rules never stopped anybody. That's why prisons are full in the first place. Rules are for penalization. What stops a person from killing is himself. Call it common sense, instinct, empathy, whatever you like. Rules don't stop people - people stop themselves.

Anyway, there's no point debating about this any further. We're debating this as humans, so arguing that we should or should not separate ourselves from our humanity is pretty pointless, wouldn't you think?

 

[machomuu]

Narayan, humans are animals, no need to separate ourselves.

 

[Gahars]

Rules. Rules never stopped anybody. That's why prisons are full in the first place. Rules are for penalization. What stops a person from killing is himself. Call it common sense, instinct, empathy, whatever you like. Rules don't stop people - people stop themselves.

I'm sorry to nitpick here, but yeah, rules have always stopped people. That is why only a minority of the population is in prison.

 

[Shinigami357]

Rules. Rules never stopped anybody. That's why prisons are full in the first place. Rules are for penalization. What stops a person from killing is himself. Call it common sense, instinct, empathy, whatever you like. Rules don't stop people - people stop themselves.

I'm sorry to nitpick here, but yeah, rules have always stopped people. That is why only a minority of the population is in prison.

You seem to be contradicting yourself there. Surely if they "always" stop people, then nobody would be in jail in the first place?

Spoiler

Seriously, though... You ever seen any in-depth documentaries on serial killers? I have. There's a whole lot of depth there, but if anything, there's nothing that matters to these people. They do it for themselves. You think their victims thought the rules would help them? You think the killers themselves gave a hoot in hell about the rules?

As a matter of fact, some experts say, most serial killers have a facade of being good, morally upstanding citizens. The only thing they really do to conform to the rules is to hide the bodies.

I know what you're thinking: "those are serial killers, they're different." Well, they're not.

[Above spoilered coz it's a bit touchy]

You see the recent riots in England? Rules didn't stop anyone there. Heck, police with full riot gear struggled to stop them. That's how it always is. When people lose control of themselves, rules or not, probability is they'll do something stupid.

Also, about this whole rules business... I think I posted this somewhere before, a long time ago... Rules [and punishment] warp our perception of cause and consequence. You say rules "stop" people. I don't think so.

Look...

Scenario:

I shot someone. They died. I go to jail.

Cause - I shot someone
Consequence - They died
Aftermath - I go to jail

See it? The fact that I went to jail does not stop me from shooting someone. It won't bring them back to life either. That's how rules work, they punish you for something you already did. They can't stop you unless someone invents a time machine or minority report becomes reality.

So, no. Rules don't stop people. It's up to the person to stop himself. K?

 

[Gahars]

Just because it doesn't work 100% of the time doesn't mean it doesn't work at all.

 

[Shinigami357]

Wait... So you're debating via stating the obvious? At least try to prove it, man. I never said it didn't work 100%. I'm saying it never worked that way because you're mistaking the reason rules are made.

Another scenario:

I aim a gun at somebody. I thought, "I'm going to jail if I do this". I change my mind.

Why'd I change my mind? I didn't want to go to jail, right? rules 1 me 0? Not quite.

The reason I changed my mind is not because the rules say "murder is bad", but because I don't want to go to jail. It's the punishment that deters me, not the rules. Still, bottom line is, I changed my mind. Effectively, I stopped myself.

PS
Find a rule [in real life] that doesn't come with a punishment. I'd say you'll be very, very hard-pressed to do so. Cause like I said, rules aren't made to stop you, they're made to punish you.

 

[Gahars]

Well, most people would never consider pointing a gun to someone's head because of the rules in the first place. Plus, the punishments can be considered to be a part of the rules (People who break the rules go to jail, like that). And sure, you might have made the decision yourself, but the rules are what encouraged you to do so. Under different rules and values, you might come to a different conclusion.

And I said that because that seemed to be what you were disputing, that rules are automatically bad because some people deviate from them.

And you know, I wouldn't say rules are meant to punish you. Rules are designed to keep society together and running in an orderly fashion. They might not always be fun, but generally, they are good.

 

[Shinigami357]

Eh? I can neither prove nor disprove if the rules ever stopped anyone from pointing guns at others. Surely, if you're considering doing it, you've considered the rules and disregarded them. However, as you said, it's still the person's decision. I won't dispute the fact that the rules might have influenced the person [that's illogical]. However, it's just an influence. The person still stopped himself.

In any case, if a person stops, why should it matter why he stopped anyway? Point is, he stopped. To me, if he stops, then good.

Also, I never said rules are bad. Nope. I said people have a misconception on how rules work. I think I read somewhere that the law isn't for justice - it's just a way to settle disputes [i.e. who was at fault and what is his due punishment; "let the punishment fie the crime"]. Rules pretty much operate in a similar fashion - whether you feel bad for yourself, feel ashamed [LOL, self-punishment; this sucks], get a slap on the wrist, get grounded, put in detention, community service, etc.

Pretty much, when rules and laws are made, there is a certainty that it will be broken [surely it has been broken in the past, which is why the rule exists anyway; precedence, yeah?]. And that's why they always have some punishment [in any shape or form] attached to them. Simple fact is, if you know a rule will get broken, there's a corresponding punishment there. I mean, if there weren't any, then people would break them all the time.

Look, even when people set rules for themselves, they're bound to break it, and feel bad.

PS
I'm not sure how the topic got derailed, but meh. 'Tis the internet, after all. Sorry, OP. Time for me to sleep and [hopefully] not derail it any further. Peace.

 

[Gahars]

I would disagree with a lot of that, but yeah, I guess we are getting off topic. Sorry, OP.