[Request] pcsx-rearmed port for new 3ds

Discussion in '3DS - Homebrew Development and Emulators' started by mironicurse, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. mironicurse
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    mironicurse GBAtemp Regular

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    Hi. I got another homebrew request, but this one will make many people happy i believe. https://github.com/notaz/pcsx_rearmed
    It even got MIPS->ARM recompiler, so i think new 3ds can (in theory) do more games in near fullspeed. Unai gpu software plugin is pretty fast, however true gpu rendering surely needs a lot of work(maybe even isn't worth it). openGL rendering is there, but i'm not sure what's state of gl3ds https://github.com/cpp3ds/gl3ds
    If more people are interested in it, maybe we can ping some 3ds developers to poke. (bubble2k16 and nop90 are still around, i hope)
    So basically is it going to work, do we need it and how hard can it be?
     
  2. Vulpes-Vulpeos

    Vulpes-Vulpeos Advanced Member

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  3. Mikemk

    Mikemk GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    This is already part of RetroArch. It was abandoned because the New 3DS is just barely powerful enough, and most titles run at half speed.
     
  4. ArtemisM

    ArtemisM Kupo for Kupo Nuts

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    You overestimate the 3ds. pcsx rearmed will never run fullspeed with any sort of reliability.
     
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  5. zacchi4k

    zacchi4k GBAtemp Maniac

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    If you disable the audio drivers, some games (eg LSD Dream Emulator) run at full speed (albeit with no audio)
     
  6. zacchi4k
    This message by zacchi4k has been removed from public view by Chary, Sep 21, 2018.
    Sep 20, 2018
  7. Rj.MoG

    Rj.MoG GBAtemp Regular

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    If the Dreamcast and my 233mhz penguin could emulate PSX fullspeed with sound than the n3ds can. It’s just a matter if anyone wants to Ben bothered doing it
     
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  8. zacchi4k

    zacchi4k GBAtemp Maniac

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    An emulator on the Dreamcast is bound to be much less accurate, which as a sort of side effect, makes it faster
     
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  9. Mikemk

    Mikemk GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Given that people have been bothered to be* doing it, and it doesn't run full speed, this statement is false.
     
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  10. Dracari

    Dracari GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    the Dreamcast being able to do SOME PS1 games via Bleem! is in the same aspect of PSP with POPS, the Dreamcast didnt have teh exact same CPU or means to fallback on like the PSP, did or how the PS2 did for PS1, or even in teh same comparison the 3DS does GBA and DS Backwards compatibility. but having both a 32bit MIPS RISC Cpu, with Similar instruction sets, made it easier.

    the ARM11 CPU of the two the 3DS has which CTR-Mode software runs, is no MIPS RISC. there's nothing to simplyfy or Cutout the middleman, or the overhead of emulating a new CPU. (Translation > Emulation) and the same general rule of Emulation because of this Still applies to the 3DS, that the host must needs be 10~20x more powerful than the Guest target. and you could argue. "Trade Accuracy for performance" yes thats where alot of early and ionalot cases your favorite classic Emulators still get the performance they have now. but that only takes you ohh so far. if you Really want PS1 on the go playability. get just a Modded PSP/Vita, any half decent modern cellphone or a Fusee vulnerable Switch and mod that.

    No amount of optimization or hard work will get PCSX-ReARMed to the level of playability on the 3DS. so sorry to burst your bubble there but thats the hard truth.
     
  11. ArtemisM

    ArtemisM Kupo for Kupo Nuts

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    That's...not how it works ^^; That's a wholly baseless, ignorant, and incorrect claim. Also Bleem! was rubbish even back in it's day.
     
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  12. Rj.MoG

    Rj.MoG GBAtemp Regular

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    So nothing is better than something inaccurate? Bleem runs a ton of games very well. Just like corn ran quite a few games well. That’s such a ridiculous argument to make. Of course something is better than nothing.

    It’s already playable. With several games. Not much work has been put into it and that’s reasonable. There’s not a ton of interest in it with the switch being blown wide open. Same with the Xbox one. There’s no good ports of anything on there and it’s been completely open since launch and now has full access to all of its systems in dev mode.
     
  13. ArtemisM

    ArtemisM Kupo for Kupo Nuts

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    I don't think you know the difference between "very well" and satisfactory, because I can 150% assure you Bleem! does not run things "very well". This is coming from someone who was associated with the emulation scene when Bleem! was released. Bleem! has a metric TON of issues and many, many shortcuts and stopgaps implemented.

    Anyways, a proper, fully functional pcsx port for n3ds isn't going to happen. Not because it won't, but because it can't.
     
    Last edited by ArtemisM, Sep 21, 2018
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  14. Rj.MoG

    Rj.MoG GBAtemp Regular

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    The games are perfectly playable and many games can be completed. I played bleem on PC as well and I had no major issues with the game I played. PCSX-Rearmed doesn't even have a hardware renderer dude. It isn't an issue of power there simply isn't interest. I'm sure it would take a lot of work but much like bleem I see no reasons compromises couldn't be made to make many games playable.
     
  15. Dracari

    Dracari GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    you want perfect full speed an audio? the best if someone feels the nee dto do any more will get some *BASIC* PS1 homebrew. the N3DS simply-Lacks-Power. i've given you teh facts of Why it cant happen its not that people cant be bothered. its because theres nothing more to be done. performance and "usable" ("Just runs. Need sound disabled or sound is a mess, Innacurate emulation leading to visual and game bugs) has a hit a brickwall and and there wont be proper playability (Runs,boots, has sound, No glitches no bugs)

    this is teh same tired argument your using many others cry about why no developer is doing more than a PoC for an N64 Emulator. Now.. if you want to see it done devs to do the impossible? *PAY THEM* Make it worth the fruitless and pointless time n effort to try and get any more performance out of PCSX-ReARMed on the N3DS the cost of a Raspberry Pi 3B a cheap MicroSD, and USB Power adapter is far less than its going to cost you to entice anyone to do what you want. (plus there smany many more emulators you can run on the 3B and if you get creative you can make a portable w/ a cheap LCD Display lil soldering and Button work, BOOM you got a deal. even i was able to cobble something together w/ a Waveshare 7' Display a friend's 3D Printera high Battery pack and my 8bitdo SN30 Pro.

    ohh and btw Yea.. Bleem could of gone farther but Sony and thier lawyer's happened. so No Bleem isnt usable 100% it isnt the "Best" only the games it was listed for are garunteed to work anything else is a ticking timebomb of crashes glitches Lockups, freezes, VMU Corrupting problems waiting to happen. (even w/ the factor of Translation, the DC *Still* didnt have the power to drive much and would hit teh same brick wall. )

    and you want to see your argument of "No its not about power?" fall flat? go ahead go grab some old gen2 i5 or i3 or early Phenom II by AMD Potato of a PC systems that can run SNES9X just fine but run Higan/BSNES(Accurate mode) and watch those pc's Crumble. the More cycle Accurate you go byte for byte.. bit for bit.. instruction set for set. the more overhead there is, and in turn more power's needed.

    the 3DS wasnt *DESIGNED* for shenanigans like this in mind, Nintendo never built it w/ the best of hardware because it didnt need to.. and its Why they are so woefully under powered. hell even cheaper than a full decked out RPi3B, is a used PSP 1000 or PSP 2000(Slim) a huge chunk of the PS1 library works with patches ID Fiddling or the right converter in mind. otherwise as i said before Get a Moddable Switch, or a modern Android/iPhone and you got something that'll play everything
     
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  16. zacchi4k

    zacchi4k GBAtemp Maniac

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    Dude, the reality is the N3DS hardware is crap, with a slow 804MHz CPU and a small amount of RAM, you cannot except a smooth PSX emulation. As others said, one of the reasons Bleem could run "well" on DC was because the two shared the same architecture, which means it took WAY less computation power. But even them, there were probably a lot of hacks and half-working features, even if they weren't exactly "visible" and were under the hood, but I can bet my house they were there.
     
  17. Rj.MoG

    Rj.MoG GBAtemp Regular

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    Then why did bleem run fine on a pentium processor as well? I never said it could run accurate emulation. Simply that it could emulate it fullspeed. The n3ds May be pretty weak but it’s ridiculous to say it isn’t more powerful than a pentium processor running an emulator entirely in software with no hardware acceleration.

    I specifically pointed out about accuracy? I never said it could run an accurate emulator. Just that it definitely isn’t a power issue when similar emus have been run on far weaker systems. Even look at the early days of epsxe and pcsx. The hardware requirements are pathetic on those. And the n3ds already runs several games fullspeed completely in software without a dynarec. Those two things alone would offer massive speed increases if they were made for pcsx-rearmed on the n3ds. Let alone if an assembly emulator was written for it ala bleem or corn. Or if an emulator was ported outside of retro arch period. I don’t personally care about there being a psx emulator on 3ds. But it’s factual to say that emulators have run on far weaker systems at fullspeed. We’re they buggy? Sure. But not everything needs to be perfect. Most people actually don’t care about emulation bugs if the alternative is not having something at all. I don’t know why you made this stroke of a post about this issue
     
    Last edited by Rj.MoG, Sep 21, 2018
  18. zacchi4k

    zacchi4k GBAtemp Maniac

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    I'll say it again: because it's way less accurate, it also has lower requirements

     
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  19. Dracari

    Dracari GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    to the OP, Zacc's on the ball with this theres a tradeoff from Accuracy and *Speed* also the x86 architechure's more Sophisticated and complex than the ARM11 that drives the 3DS as the main Applications Processor, it can get more done in less Clock Cycles it in the simplest example it takes far few cycles to calculate what say 809+120x5 is vs what the 3DS's Arm11 will take. another reason PS1 emulation wont be 100% Full speed w/ working sound and no graphical glitches. there Hasto be a tradeoff. because teh only way forward is Backwards for this, they haveto make teh emulator about as innaccurate as bleem and it'll get to being like Bleem at that point only *Stable* enough to play specific games. if the 3DS shared any of teh major hardware that'd get cutdown in overhead and processor power and complexity needed. (because thats less the 3DS hasto emulate, )Strip the sound and memory controller function and you'd likely get a lil more speed, at the cost no game would ever have sound and outside the use of save states(which would introduce more problems than its worth for performance) there'd be no saving.

    same thing with Simplifying Emulation of the CPU GPU Sound Controller and memory controller. lower in accuracy you go , more n more games would begin to malfunction as the "Emulated" hardware isnt functioning the way they expect and crashes errors glitchs etc begin to occur to a point of gamebreaking issues or games failing to boot alltogether.

    your argument of why say epsxe back than ran on a humble P1 or P2 CPU on a PC? ok yes it can play some games. try the ones listed as incompatable then try the latest version. see how what they run better , faster or work properly? those early versions were miles upon miles less accurate compared to the latest versions. thats about how far back in developing basicly PCSX-ReARMed would haveto go to get teh full speed p[erformance you want to see out of the 3DS. because not only are games/Homebrew running ontop of the 3DS's OS, its competing with it for resources

    by the point it'd get to the speed you want, games would be so buggy you'd be back going "WTF!? this build is broken! my game wont work, i cant save.. theres bugs everywhere~!" thats about as blunt everyones trying to be why development was *abandoned* for the 3DS port as theres not much else left to do.
     
  20. Rj.MoG

    Rj.MoG GBAtemp Regular

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    That was literally my point.
     
  21. spectral

    spectral GBAtemp Fan

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    Is it really impossible or just unreasonably difficult? The PSP can emulate PS1 and is much weaker than a New 3DS. However that did have the advantage of being developed by Sony who know the platforms better than anyone else.
     
  22. zacchi4k

    zacchi4k GBAtemp Maniac

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    Because the PS1 and PSP share the same CPU architecture, it takes much less computing power
     
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