Hacking R4 question...

[Miser]

You've been arguing this and don't own a (recent) R4DS? I bought two a month or so ago; one for my boyfriend and one for another friend. They are black and do not have teeth on the contact surface. My boyfriend and friend are not here, so I cannot take pictures of the cartridges I gave them to prove to you that they are different.

The original R4 V2 doesn't have teeth on the contact surface either (V1 did). It also comes in black.
I compared my original V2 to the Priceangels "compact pack" one and it's identical.

 

[TrolleyDave]

No she means the cart itself. It's not the original R4 from the original R4 team, it's a clone. We've had this discussion before have we not?

I haven't. Do you at least have some comparison pictures or something?

Search the boards, you'll find plenty of threads on spotting a fake R4. The only way to real tell is to open up the carts and compare part numbers, chip ids and batch numbers.

It is a well known fact that the R4 team disbanded and ceased production, and that's not just this site - it's common knowledge amongst those who've been involved in the flashcart since the R4 appeared. The carts that are on sale now are knock offs, counterfeits, clones, copies or however you want to call it.

 

[Miser]

It is a well known fact that the R4 team disbanded

It's also a well known fact that Backstreet Boys disbanded. Then they made a comeback.
I believe this is the comeback of the original R4. Nothing indicates that these new R4s are knock offs, counterfeits, clones, copies or however you want to call it so please don't call them that if you don't have any proof.

 

[TrolleyDave]

It is a well known fact that the R4 team disbanded

It's also a well known fact that Backstreet Boys disbanded. Then they made a comeback.
I believe this is the comeback of the original R4. Nothing indicates that these new R4s are knock offs, counterfeits, clones, copies or however you want to call it so please don't call them that if you don't have any proof.

So you're saying that everybody on the temp with knowledge of these things is wrong? Can you show me proof that these are from the original R4 team? Can you even show me 1 valid post from somebody with reasonable inside information stating that the R4 team has got back together and that these carts are genuine?

The R4 team hasn't got back together, they disbanded and did a runner and dozens of new "R4 teams" appeared. The carts that are being sold now are not from the same team. They are clones, counterfeits, knock-offs, copies, reproductions. This is beginning to feel like the Monty Python Dead Parrot sketch, which is how I know that me and you have definitely had this conversation before. You get shown proof that they disbanded, you get told by everybody who is knowledgeable on the subject and you just say "Where's the proof" ignoring all the proof that's handed to you. As much as you'd like to believe the R4 team has got back together and that the one's being sold now are real they aren't. You constantly ask for proof that they're not, well I'm now holding you to the same criteria. Show me proof that these are from the R4 team instead of just an assumption. So please stop saying that these are genuine R4 carts from the R4 team if you don't have any proof.

 

[Miser]

So please stop saying that these are genuine R4 carts from the R4 team if you don't have any proof.

Just read the topic again, thank you.
OP asked whether they still make original R4s. The first reply is "don't get an R4,i recommend get an Acekard2.1/i.They do make 1:1 clone R4's though,but still I recommend Acekard or something else."
I'm not the one going "it's definately this or that". I'm saying that there's no reason to believe it's not an original. You guys are saying that "it's definately a clone".

What's this "knowledge of these things" you speak of? Because you're a moderator, your personal opinions and statements without any proof provided should be considered as facts, is that it?

I've compared these new R4s and they're identical to the original V2. They're advertised as the original R4. There's no reason to believe that it's not the original R4. If you have proof that it's not the original R4, please do show it. Otherwise there's no point in claiming it's a clone.

 

[Depravo]

I believe this is the comeback of the original R4.

You'd think a comeback from the official team would warrant an official firmware update, would you not?

It's like this - We all know that R4's with fancy names (Ultra, Advanced, Deluxe etc) are fake. We all know that R4's that run (or claim to run) on the DSi are fake. We all know that R4's with SDHC capabilities are fake. We all know that R4's that do not run the original v1.18 firmware are fake. We all know that real R4's are compatible with the YSMenu and Wood R4 firmwares.

The trouble is - THE CLONE MANUFACTURERS KNOW THIS TOO.

Potential R4 buyers are slowly being educated on how to spot an obvious fake so the crafty counterfeiters are making a cart that looks and performs like the original to fool those who think they know all about the R4. It certainly had you fooled.

If the R4 team were really making a comeback then the first sensible thing they could do is to ditch the name 'R4'.

 

[Miser]

It certainly had you fooled.
Nothing had me fooled. First of all I have never stated that those are definately genuine, original R4s. I've said that there's no reason to believe they aren't, since they're identical.
Secondly, you have no proof of this theory of yours.

QUOTE(Depravo @ May 25 2010, 09:16 PM) If the R4 team were really making a comeback then the first sensible thing they could do is to ditch the name 'R4'.

People are still buying the original R4s, they're great cards. Especially now that WoodR4 was released. What sense would it make to ditch it?

 

[TrolleyDave]

So please stop saying that these are genuine R4 carts from the R4 team if you don't have any proof.

Just read the topic again, thank you.
OP asked whether they still make original R4s. The first reply is "don't get an R4,i recommend get an Acekard2.1/i.They do make 1:1 clone R4's though,but still I recommend Acekard or something else."
I'm not the one going "it's definately this or that". I'm saying that there's no reason to believe it's not an original. You guys are saying that "it's definately a clone".

What's this "knowledge of these things" you speak of? Because you're a moderator, your personal opinions and statements without any proof provided should be considered as facts, is that it?

I've compared these new R4s and they're identical to the original V2. They're advertised as the original R4. There's no reason to believe that it's not the original R4. If you have proof that it's not the original R4, please do show it. Otherwise there's no point in claiming it's a clone.

It has nothing to do with me being a moderator, I've only been a moderator for a week or so. It has to do with me having been here and in the flashcart scene for a long enough to know that these are clones and NOT manufactured by the original team. The team has disbanded, done a runner, legged it, hopped the midnight boat to cairo, they have abandoned the R4. I can get you a cart of Starfox 2/Starwing 2. The cartridges look official, they have some official Nintendo parts in them but is that proof that Nintendo decided to release it in the end?

You are the one going "it's not this or that", you're the one saying that there's no reason to believe it's not an original. The reason to believe it's not the original is that the R4 team disbanded, they abandoned the R4. There was information posted everywhere about it, not just here. There's been no information released about them getting back together. Hell, the rights to the name were even taken over by the M3 Team. The closest you'll get to an official R4 now are the R4i RTS and other carts that the M3 Team sell. There are no official R4's being made anymore.

The "knowledge of these things" I speak of is experience and learning things while being involved in the flashcart scene. You say you compared the carts and they're identical. Open them both up and upload pictures of them side by side then. The only way to tell is to open them up, as I've said many times.

And as Depravo quite rightly pointed out, if they're from the R4 team then why haven't they updated the firmware? Surely that would be the first step? You know, improving your products compatibility. And don't bother bringing up YSMenu or WoodR4 because those are both unofficial firmwares. Don't you also think that there would have been an announcement on the official R4 site that they were once again producing carts and that they had got back together.

There is a mountain of proof that shows that they are not official products, you just refuse to accept to it. And once again I'm holding you to the same standard that you seem to be holding everyone else to. Show me some physical proof that these carts are genuine.

 

[exangel]

So please stop saying that these are genuine R4 carts from the R4 team if you don't have any proof.

Just read the topic again, thank you.
OP asked whether they still make original R4s. The first reply is "don't get an R4,i recommend get an Acekard2.1/i.They do make 1:1 clone R4's though,but still I recommend Acekard or something else."
I'm not the one going "it's definately this or that". I'm saying that there's no reason to believe it's not an original. You guys are saying that "it's definately a clone".

What's this "knowledge of these things" you speak of? Because you're a moderator, your personal opinions and statements without any proof provided should be considered as facts, is that it?

I've compared these new R4s and they're identical to the original V2. They're advertised as the original R4. There's no reason to believe that it's not the original R4. If you have proof that it's not the original R4, please do show it. Otherwise there's no point in claiming it's a clone.

You are delusional if you think there's no point in a community with its collective experience and consensus to agree upon and assert a recorded, memorable fact. You are further delusional to appeal to anyone as if it is their responsibility to prove it against your belief in the advertising you have seen. Dozens of people have taken apart subsequent-batch R4DS cartridges to find they have different chips/pcb designs and whatever and included pictures, it is not our responsibility to go back and scrounge up links to these things especially when you clearly refuse to be "proven wrong".

 

[Depravo]

 

[TrolleyDave]

Depravo mate, you good sir are a bleedin legend!

 

[jurassicplayer]

It should be apparent that when the entire GBATemp community is saying one thing, its probably better to believe it rather than be the sole idiot who can't seem to come to terms with the fact that all R4's after are clones and doesn't have enough ability to search for the dam facts that are across the net (not just GBATemp, the entire dam network of DS homebrew/hacking community across the globe).

 

[Depravo]

Depravo mate, you good sir are a bleedin legend!

Cheers. I found that picture the other day and was waiting for an opportunity to use it.

 

[Miser]

You are the one going "it's not this or that"
I'm not. I've stated my opinions and thoughts and I've made clear that they're nothing more than my opinions and thoughts. You're the one stating so-called facts without any proof.

The "knowledge of these things" I speak of is experience and learning things while being involved in the flashcart scene.
How are you involved in the flashcart scene, exactly?

Don't you also think that there would have been an announcement on the official R4 site that they were once again producing carts and that they had got back together.
I don't. I don't think they'd want the publicity.
So, Depravo stated that clone makers would produce these "1:1 clones" since WoodR4 works for them. For the same reason the original team could produce more cards, with no intention to develop the original firmware since a more superior unofficial has been released.

QUOTE(TrolleyDave @ May 25 2010, 09:34 PM) There is a mountain of proof that shows that they are not official products, you just refuse to accept to it. And once again I'm holding you to the same standard that you seem to be holding everyone else to. Show me some physical proof that these carts are genuine.

Once again, I'm not claiming that these are definately genuine, original R4s.
Since you have "mountain of proof that shows that they are not official products", show me some. Humor me.

QUOTE(exangel @ May 25 2010, 09:39 PM)

You are delusional if you think there's no point in a community with its collective experience and consensus to agree upon and assert a recorded, memorable fact. You are further delusional to appeal to anyone as if it is their responsibility to prove it against your belief in the advertising you have seen. Dozens of people have taken apart subsequent-batch R4DS cartridges to find they have different chips/pcb designs and whatever and included pictures, it is not our responsibility to go back and scrounge up links to these things especially when you clearly refuse to be "proven wrong".

Writing like that makes you look like an idiot.
No one has taken apart and compared one of these "compact pack" R4s to the originals. Prove me wrong.

Btw, troll as a moderator? Whose idea was that? You shouldn't be laughing at that picture, you should remove it as it's pure trolling.

 

[tk_saturn]

They are 100% clones. I have one, I have proof. You can easily tell the Green R4 logo on Packaging is a photocopy/ scan. I can provide photos of the cart, internals of the cart, and the packacking.

and yes, this cart runs Wood. So give the arguing and attacking people a rest Miser, you've done it in so many threads and turned them into a R4 Flame war.

They are $3.30 from NDScardsale, of course they are clones!

 

[Miser]

They are 100% clones. I have one, I have proof. You can easily tell the Green R4 logo on Packaging is a photocopy/ scan. I can provide photos of the cart, internals of the cart, and the packacking.

and yes, this cart runs Wood. So give the arguing and attacking people a rest Miser, you've done it in so many threads and turned them into a R4 Flame war.

They are $3.30 from NDScardsale, of course they are clones!

Ok, post a comparison on the internals of both cards. The original V2 R4 and the identical so-called clone.

Just take one more look at how this thread started. I didn't start the retarded flame war. The topic starter asked for an R4 and the first reply is "don't get R4". The first replier even recommended an AK2.1, a poorly built, defective card over it. Then people, you included, started stating these so-called facts about all R4s being clones and how he should get an AK2i. I gave him an informative reply for the question he asked.

 

[TrolleyDave]

I'm not. I've stated my opinions and thoughts and I've made clear that they're nothing more than my opinions and thoughts. You're the one stating so-called facts without any proof.

They are opinions you are trying to pass off as fact. You are spending an awful lot of effort trying to convince people that there is no reason to believe to believe these aren't genuine.

How are you involved in the flashcart scene, exactly?

By being involved in the community, speaking to people, reading information, collecting information and developing tools for them.

I don't. I don't think they'd want the publicity.
So, Depravo stated that clone makers would produce these "1:1 clones" since WoodR4 works for them. For the same reason the original team could produce more cards, with no intention to develop the original firmware since a more superior unofficial has been released.

Yes but saying "We're back with a new firmware" would do more to bolster sales than WoodR4 ever could. People would know that the cart is being supported by an official team and not relying on the good nature of homebrew coders.

Once again, I'm not claiming that these are definately genuine, original R4s.

I believe this is the comeback of the original R4. Nothing indicates that these new R4s are knock offs, counterfeits, clones, copies or however you want to call it so please don't call them that if you don't have any proof.

I've compared these new R4s and they're identical to the original V2. They're advertised as the original R4. There's no reason to believe that it's not the original R4.

You're best bet is the R4 from ShopTemp which can run Wood R4
The one linked here is identical to the original R4 and there's no reason to believe it's a clone. It's probably authentic.

All those claims above from certainly point towards you claiming and trying to convince people that these are genuine cards.

QUOTE

Since you have "mountain of proof that shows that they are not official products", show me some. Humor me.

And what would be acceptable proof to you? I could show you information on their disbanding, I could show you information on how the M3 Team is now the owner of the R4 brand name and the carts that they sell (and the cart you mention is not one of them). But I get the feeling that I could get the R4 team together in front of you and have them tell you they're clones and you'd say "How do I know they're the real R4 team".

QUOTE

Btw, troll as a moderator? Whose idea was that? You shouldn't be laughing at that picture, you should remove it as it's pure trolling.

I'm no troll. And I know Depravo well, he wasn't trolling. He was making a point, a point made more effectively through the use of imagery than with words. I could say you're a troll. You don't seem to want to actually learn anything nor do you want to accept proof or evidence of their disbanding and doing a runner, all I see you doing is arguing with people. Your response to tk_saturn is a fine example of that. I'll guarantee that if he posts pics of the internals you'll turn around and say "Well how do I know that really is one of the ones I'm talking about".

 

[Miser]

I believe this is the comeback of the original R4. Nothing indicates that these new R4s are knock offs, counterfeits, clones, copies or however you want to call it so please don't call them that if you don't have any proof.

I've compared these new R4s and they're identical to the original V2. They're advertised as the original R4. There's no reason to believe that it's not the original R4.

You're best bet is the R4 from ShopTemp which can run Wood R4
The one linked here is identical to the original R4 and there's no reason to believe it's a clone. It's probably authentic.

All those claims above from certainly point towards you claiming and trying to convince people that these are genuine cards.

I'm not claiming anything. I'm saying there's no reason to believe they're not original R4s. You people are claiming that they're definately clones

QUOTE(TrolleyDave @ May 25 2010, 10:23 PM)

He was making a point, a point made more effectively through the use of imagery than with words.

I see. Let me make my point aswell then.

 

[tk_saturn]

Just take one more look at how this thread started. I didn't start the retarded flame war. The topic starter asked for an R4 and the first reply is "don't get R4". The first replier even recommended an AK2.1, a poorly built, defective card over it. Then people, you included, started stating these so-called facts about all R4s being clones and how he should get an AK2i. I gave him an informative reply for the question he asked.

Yes you did start the flame war. The thread was resolved, the op was happy, thread done. Then this morning you added a very unnecessary post calling me a F****** Retard, which I choose not to respond to. That is trolling, there's no need for it. Now you're picking a fight with a sodding Moderator. Moderators are still entitled to an opinion.

There was nothing offensive in Depravo's picture, just another way of saying you are flogging a dead horse.

 

[TrolleyDave]

I'm not claiming anything. I'm saying there's no reason to believe they're not original R4s. You people are claiming that they're definately clones

So the fact that there is no more R4 team isn't a reason to believe that they're no original R4s? Or how about the fact that the M3 Team now owns the rights to the R4 name and doesn't sell this particular product, is that not a reason to believe they're clones? They are clones, plain and simple. The reason we're definitely claiming it is because we know from years of experience that they are.

I see. Let me make my point aswell then.

It's not a very valid point considering I don't actually hate the R4 though is it. Where as Depravo was making a point that discussing this with you was like flogging a dead horse, which is true. You outright refuse to accept any information or proof that the R4 team does not produce carts any more. I'm beginning to lean more towards the opinion that you are trolling, nothing more and nothing less. I showed you proof of their disbanding in another thread, I showed you a statement from a source well in the know that they had legged it and stopped production, you could quite easily find out all the information using a Google search, or even searching this site. I'd recommend going to the official R4 forums but they were taken down when the team legged it. Instead you seem to be more concerned with convincing people that these are genuine carts. If you weren't trying to prove these are genuine then the psychology of the wording you use would be different. You would say "There's a chance these are clones but I personally believe that they are genuine" and offer evidence of why you think they're genuine.

QUOTE(Miser @ May 25 2010, 07:15 PM)

Just take one more look at how this thread started. I didn't start the retarded flame war. The topic starter asked for an R4 and the first reply is "don't get R4". The first replier even recommended an AK2.1, a poorly built, defective card over it. Then people, you included, started stating these so-called facts about all R4s being clones and how he should get an AK2i. I gave him an informative reply for the question he asked.

Yes you did start the flame war. The thread was resolved, the op was happy, thread done. Then this morning you added a very unnecessary post calling me a F****** Retard, which I choose not to respond to. That is trolling, there's no need for it.

And as I'm the one that edited the post I can say for a fact that yes Miser, you did say this.