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Discussion in 'General Gaming Discussion' started by Hyro-Sama, Aug 3, 2014.
"Fuck this game". - Rich Evans
Can't argue with that- it is pretty overrated.
After watching the video: some of these guys arguments are kind of stupid.
They clearly don't understand that speed is not a given- it's something that you have to acquire enough skill to use effectively. The whole point is that you feel accomplished when you do finally get good enough at the game. The exploration provides replayability, the simple speed sections give you enough of a taste of the speed to give new players enough rush and excitement to keep them playing- there's a lot of really good design elements in these games.
Not that there aren't flaws- but they sure did a piss poor job of picking out the important ones.
Sonic IS still overrated though.
They do point out that the "skill" is not really "skill", just rote memorization and trial-and-error.
Also having straightforward speed with exploration is rather contradictory. They point this out as well. It's a game that encourages going forward but also encourages you to take your time and go through each level in a nonlinear fashion.
Skill is absolutely skill in this game. Memorization is only necessary for parts of the game that are actually bad, poorly designed, or poorly executed (case and point- labyrinth zone)
It's not just memorization and trial and error. You need good reaction time and and a good understanding of how sonic moves and how to manipulate him to make him go and do what you want. The game is all about momentum based platforming- sure theres some trial and error- but mario is guilty of this just as well.
Their whole point about the game encouraging moving slowly- more often than not that is simply not the case. Almost every level in sonic 2 encourages going fast, and only punishes you if you don't stay on your toes while doing so. You need to pay actual attention to what's going on- the game runs at a steady 60 fps- and you have a few different moves to combat/dodge oncoming enemies, it's not hard to press down to roll into something or just jump over it.
Complaining about the loop de loops, rolling hills, corkscrews, and other parts of the game where all you do is hold right is such a stupid thing to argue as a flaw. That's like complaining about parts of mario where you aren't jumping and stomping goomba or breaking blocks.
The level design is all about speed- even if there's multiple paths- usually it works like this. The higher the path- the harder, but also faster. The game is about risk vs reward most of the time with it's level design- not that there aren't exceptions to this- but thats typically the case.
The other thing they fail to mention throughout all of this- is that while you sure will take more hits in this game than you would in mario- You almost never die due to it. In mario- it's 1 or 2 hits and you die. Sonic can take as much damage as you want him to- as long as you have at least 1 ring- which aren't exactly difficult to obtain.
tl:dr-- The Classic Sonic games are well designed games and- while they do have their flaws, saying they are overrated isn't exactly accurate, and their argument for it is rather weak.
Saying Sonic overall as a franchise is overrated on the other hand is completely accurate. There are so many bad sonic games it's not even funny.
There are occasional exceptions (out of the Sonic games I have played which are many). I loved the first Sonic, it was unique and fun to replay (due to the multiple paths), but all the rest of the 2D entries in the series bore me, except Sonic CD which was my favourite.
Then came Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast and at first I hated it, but then I LOVED IT! And part 2 was not bad either.
I feel like the problem with sonic games is the random difficulty spikes, Half of the level you can just hold down right to progress, then suddenly you fall down a hole and have to remember where it was for your next run, this was a problem caused by not being able to see far ahead of sonic.
Sometimes these traps are avoidable, sometimes not. It seems like the games punishes good players who manage to keep up their speed by plunging them into bottomless pits.
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Still does it better than any other though - remember Bubsy the Bobcat?
NiGHTS is exactly the same: sure a decent amount of memory helps, but to pull off that high score required more skill than memory. And that's what Sonic 1 was at the end of it: a score attack game - if you don't think that's the case, then I'd argue you simply aren't good enough at the game...
Sonic 2 still had the magic for me, just, but after that, well, 'over rated' fits the bill perfectly... my opinion though! (and I still enjoyed Sonic 3 & Knuckles, CD anyway)
They should stick with bad movie reviews. They always say some cringeworthy bullshit in this prerec crap. I'm sick and tired of defending Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations (I will still debate that the other wii sonic games are also worthy of defense.) If you are still that ham-handed as to not acknowledge a SINGLE 3d sonic game as good, you're either goofing or you are 100% retarded
Sadly I was not privileged enough to be born 10 years earlier,
I've not played a 2d sonic game for a long time, and this was just from my memory's of the GBA sonic games, I was prob pretty bad.
Still, I make games now and the sonic games just don't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Its kind of a miracle I find them fun at all.
Here I was thinking this was going to be about Sonic Adventure 2 and nope..
It's about the first Sonic game which still to this day is a ton of fun and from their gameplay footage they could have avoided being hit but they're either too fucking slow to react or done that on purpose to blame on the game.
Sonic isn't always about going fast, sometimes you do go fast and others need to be careful like on the lava levels you literally can't go fast as you're stuck on a cube travelling over to the other side.
Anyway, these guys need to stick to reviewing films because games aren't their thing.
*getting ready for long journey to "flaming hate city"
edit: okay; watched the video
i agree with some stuff the dude said, but he sounds really stupid sometimes.. hes a douche...
He sure did love those Chili Dogs a little bit too much i think......
All that cursing felt way too forced and like they were trying to replicate AVGN, except they're incapable of such thing.
Pat the NES Punk doesn't use excessive cursing if it isn't necessary, maybe one or two times but that's about it.
Overrated or not, you can't deny what Sonic did to the gaming industry at the time.
The main thing they got wrong: Crash Bandicoot beat the shit out of Sonic.
That is the second time I see someone bad talking about the early Sonic games, first one was a random dude on a news site saying that Sonic 1 aged badly and it sucked because you don't run fast like in Sonic 2(Which makes sense, Sonic 1 was platform-er than Sonic 2, which was about going fast and had things like Spin Dash, in Sonic 1, you earn the speed).
Also he doesn't know how to spin, he could have avoided a lot of hits and unnecessary swearing if he used the fucking spin attack by pressing down while running. Also the alternatives paths are a plus, like, there are options to explore in a next replay, you can use the upper route to go fast or go to the down route and do some platforming, there is a choice! And you need to have reflex, if you are going fast, you should know that stuff will hit you if you don't pay attention, and you can avoid paying attention to enemies while going fast if you use the spin attack anyway.
Also that swearing was terrible, unlike AVGN, he just doesn't know how to use it, it feels forced.
In my honest opinion as a gamer, I don't think he knows how to play Sonic or anything that needs some reflex that isn't QTE. :/
It's debatable whether the mascot of PS1 was Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon or Jin (Tekken) as the console never had the official mascot cleared out like Nintendo (Mario), Sega (Sonic) and Xbox (Master Chief) do.
breaking news: Sonic games are overrated. more at 11.
now seriously. I have never played Sonic 1 from start to finish but from what I know is a good game with a difficulty spike a little abrupt, the first level you can go and press right and jump to avoid thing and that's it, then the boss stage, you get the pattern and defeat Robotnik, everything is fine. entering 2nd zone and lava comes out and you need to take your time and do well timed jumps to avoid things, on later levels they go crazy with buttomless pits and such. other than that the game is very good.
now, arguing about that is like arguing that Mario should jump instead of run but the stupidity always find his ways and take control of someone.