Pirating vs. Purchasing

[leiger]

I posted this in another thread, then had it edited rather quickly by a moderator:

This post has been removed by a moderator.
Reason: That's not what the discussion is about, take your opinion somewhere else.

I can see where they're coming from and happen to agree with them. Perhaps simply quoting the post and replying to it wasn't the best idea.

So I'll post this here, as this seems to be the next best place to put a thread like this, even if it doesn't fit into the "emulation" category perfectly.
Thoughts, opinions, discussion wanted and encouraged. My original post is below.

You can't imagine how ridiculous it sounds to complain about the price of a flashcart. Even if the cart was $100, you put 4 or 5 games on it that you didn't buy and you just essentially made your money back. When you consider the hundreds, neigh thousands of games now available to you for free because of the flashcart you bought, the whining about cost is even more ridiculous.

It's pirates such as yourself that drive game developers into making half-assed sequels to their games.

Actually pay for the game, and support those that make it.

Possible response: But why would I bother paying such a huge amount of money for a good flash cart, if I'm still paying for my games?

* Pay for what you enjoy playing --- Support the game developers
* Extra games and apps --- Ability to play/use homebrew
* Extra features --- Ability to use cheats, RTS, and other features that can't necessarily be done with retail carts
* Convenience --- Ability to take your whole (legal) game collection with you on a single cart, instead of carrying all of them with you

There's something else, but it slipped my mind when I was writing the other points. Will edit this if I remember.

You may be thinking that if I have the money to spend on a flash cart and a whole heap of games, that's my choice. Yet the reality is I can afford very little. A game collection totalling 6 DS games and a few GBA games is sitting on my CycloDS cart, and that's more than enough. I'd rather pay for what I can afford, and miss out on the rest. People that pirate games just annoy me, because they have more of an effect on the market than they suspect.

 

[BlackNeedle]

Good points.
But you missed out the "I-only-try-those-games-out"-argument. For me, that always sounded like a dull excuse, because if you follow the line most of those guys would actually never have enjoyed any game, because they never bought one. I actually only know of very few people who stated "I bought that game after I realized it's enjoyable while playing it off my flashcard.". Of course no offense meant, there ARE some of those honourable men.
I completely agree to
purchase game = more money for developers = better games
But we still got one alternative left: abolish money, work out of social awareness- get friendly, people!

[That was me joking, y'know?]
~BlackNeedle

 

[Minox]

I definitely would buy DS games if they weren't so god damn expensive, but as the pricing is set atm a completely new PC game is much cheaper than let's say a 3 year old DS game. There's something wrong with that logic.

When it comes to PC games however I tend to buy most if not all games I find enjoyable/awesome.

 

[Heran Bago]

What if you do both? Then you're hated or "doing it wrong" by both sides.



I have discussed the legal ramifications in many threads here and it never sinks in...
Based on legal precedent in the US, piracy isn't theft, but it's copyright infringement which is worse. I'm yet to hear a logical argument based on law that it is not.


Honestly, are there any other law students or practitioners on this board?

 

[Whizz]

I definitely would buy DS games if they weren't so god damn expensive, but as the pricing is set atm a completely new PC game is much cheaper than let's say a 3 year old DS game. There's something wrong with that logic.

When it comes to PC games however I tend to buy most if not all games I find enjoyable/awesome.

I definitely agree with you on that, DS games should be atleast half the price they are now. And they can be, look at budget titles and promotions at retail stores (Pokemon Diamond/Pearl was only €15 in a recent store promotion). I get pretty pissed when I spend €45 on a DS game I don't like when I can get atleast 4 PC games for the same amount. Nintendo should have lowered their prices when flashcards got cheaper than newly released DS games, no wonder people pirate. Afterall, we are in an economic crisis and people can use their money on other stuff.

 

[thunder7child]

I also agree that the prices on DS games (but on other games consoles as well) are way too high, especially compared to prices of pc games. Come on, DS games don't have such a high production budget to justify these prices. And i believe that that has also much to do with what companies have to pay to the consoles parent company (and i'm not only talking about nintendo) to get licences in order to release titles on these consoles. How is it possible for the same game to be 30-35$ cheaper on pc's compared to their brother console releases? And where does that money go?
To be honest however, i think i would still be into piracy even if the prices did drop, simply because it's always going to be cheaper to do so. But i would have second thoughts if game developers gave me more incentives (collectors editions, better packagings, better online services or something else to make me buy their games instead of simply downloading them. An original is always going to be an original. And i see that now when i go every week searching for game cartridges on the original game boy just for the heck of it.

 

[Maz7006]

I definitely would buy DS games if they weren't so god damn expensive, but as the pricing is set atm a completely new PC game is much cheaper than let's say a 3 year old DS game. There's something wrong with that logic.

When it comes to PC games however I tend to buy most if not all games I find enjoyable/awesome.

Couldn't agree any more

YES. DS games are overpriced, i'd rather spend my money on something else more worth it

and Nintendo complains about bad sales

 

[jesterscourt]

Once everyone adopts a system like Steam (and no, WiiWare doesn't count) I think the piracy rate would be moot.

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Yeah, come to Croatia, and spend $60 on one game.

Also:

People that pirate games just annoy me, because they have more of an effect on the market than they suspect.
says person with this sig:
QUOTE1 x DSLite, 1x DSPhat, 1x CycloDS Evo, 1x Acekard 2i, 1x EZ Flash V 3-in-1 Plus

Stop being hypocrite and sharing your opinion on forum full of pirates..

This thread still has no flames, but I'm guessing it will happen, and I'll keep an eye on it..

This matter has been debated many many times, and it never ends well!

This is more of a General Offtopic thread, then NDS - Emulation..


MOVED..


EDIT:And just to point out, I agree that flashcarts should be more expensive, and not accessible to everyone!

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I really fail to see the relevance of this post. A good portion of this site is dedicated to info about flashcarts, emulators, roms (not downloads, of course). So, honestly, if you're trying to go on some white knight crusade to destory evil, you're at the wrong place. And welcome to the internet. A good portion of people who have half a brain about using the internet pirate things. That's life.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Honestly, how much of the money you pay for a game actually goes to the people that programmed it? I would be very surprised if more than 1% did, with the rest going to corporate fat cats and lawyers.

not to mention, us pirates get games earlier, get games that don't come out in our region at all, and don't have to faff around with carrying dozens of easily losable little cartridges.

 

[omatic]

Honestly, how much of the money you pay for a game actually goes to the people that programmed it? I would be very surprised if more than 1% did, with the rest going to corporate fat cats and lawyers.

not to mention, us pirates get games earlier, get games that don't come out in our region at all, and don't have to faff around with carrying dozens of easily losable little cartridges.

Good point. Unless the developer is self-publishing, they have to split the income with the publisher. In addition, when bought at retail, the publisher and the retailer have to split income from a game sale (assuming there wasn't a distributor in the middle).

In addition, if you buy a game used, or second-hand (such as on eBay or Amazon from user-made shops), the developer gets nothing. Re-sale of games is a much bigger detriment to game devs than piracy, as demonstrated by Gamestop recently announcing that they're making bundles of money off of used games (it was in their recent annual earnings summary).

When the "legit" hardware allows me to not have to carry around 40 carts at a time, then I'll stop using the flashcart. Until then, I'm gonna keep my games nice and clean in their boxes and use my Cyclo.

 

[IchigoK2031]

I literally have like a bajillion ds boxes in my room, I've probably spent like 3-4 hundred on ds games but only on ones that were gud, if I try them out at all I use an emulator, then if they're good, go to gamestop and buy them, then I go home and download and play, the game might not ever be opened but its gud for the developers.

 

[Deleted member 110780]

I only buy PC games lol.

 

[Law]

These threads should be locked the second they're made, not only have we had hundreds of them but they always end the same way. People trying to justify, people flaming nonsensically, and everybody thinking that what they believe is what everybody should believe.

People that pirate games just annoy me, because they have more of an effect on the market than they suspect.

No they don't, and please just stop this nonsense because nobody really cares. This may be a gaming forum (which was originally a rom site), but we still have discussions on things such as flash carts, and because of this there will be pirates. Nobody cares what you think of them, don't complain about them here. If you want to talk about how piracy is wrong then go to GameFAQs, where all of the zealots will agree with you and you will have a huge fun party and a lot of cake.

 

[Vidboy10]

It depends on the game really.
If its's something like GTA:CW than i wouldn't pirate it.

 

[Moots]

I'll throw down on this. From a pro pirating stand point.

Why I pirate.

-Game quality for all platforms has diminished significantly over the past 10 years.

-Game Companies are putting out games that are practically unfinished (Next gen mostly) (Leaving game modes out until later, see fable, and Bad company I believe)

-Game prices in no way shape or form represent a games quality. I refuse to pay 70 dollars on a game I play once and can't even stomach finishing.

-PIRACY DOES NOT HAVE AS BIG OF AN IMPACT ON GAMING COMPANIES AS, SAY GAMESTOP OR EB.
They are a pawn shop, and are having record year after record year of profits, and not one of those dollars go to game companies.

Consider this aswell, even if I do buy a legit copy of a game. I'll go pick it up at EB used for half the price and the Dev still doesn't see a dollar of it.

Gamestops last few financial years?

Total sales for the full year increased 24.1% to $8.8 billion, in comparison to $7.1 billion in fiscal 2007. Comparable store sales increased +12.3% for the full year.

In 1 year a 1.7 BILLION DOLLAR increase, most of it from the used game market. They are the biggets game retailer in the world because of it. Now like I said, not all of that is from used games, but I bet a majority of it is.


So if you want to fight for the people who make games, so they can make more quality games (Which astill wouldn't happen if we stopped pirating) fight companies like GS or EB. They do more damage than piraters do.

Just wait, what will be the big headline in the next couple years? Not about anti piracy I can tell you, but about the outrage that either a tax/charge will be applied to used game purchases, or an outrage that that charge cannot be implemented.

Just wait. That and Canada will become extremely wealthy due to our large supply of fresh water.

Note:I do buy certain games, especially of franchises I am a fan of (Ex CT, FF, NHL, etc)

 

[Cermage]

you can't possibly have a decent reason for pirating anything. a try-before-you-buy reasoning okay if the publishers don't release a demo but then most of the time they release adequate in game videos and screenshots. if it has bad controls or the controls are just bad most reviews will cover it so you can expect bad controls.

only reason you don't buy games is simply cause you dont want to pay for them. simple as that. there is no reinforcing the fact you dont want to spend money on games.

then there is also the downside to everyone buying full marked retail game. a reasonable amount of sales is okay but if too much the dev's get a bit greedy and think that they can pass off half-assed sequels and still make a tonne of money. and which most of the time, they do.

 

[Deleted User]

Yay, another discussion about piracy.

Just so you know, I buy a lot of games but I would be pissed if there wasn't a way to pirate them too. Fun fact: In the last 5 months I bought 17 (!) XBox 360 games + several DS and GBx games.

...
* Convenience --- Ability to take your whole (legal) game collection with you on a single cart, instead of carrying all of them with you
...
That's still illegal where I live.

What if you do both? Then you're hated or "doing it wrong" by both sides.
...
I'm definitely doing it wrong then.

QUOTE(Toni Plutonij @ May 25 2009, 08:13 PM)

...
EDIT:And just to point out, I agree that flashcarts should be more expensive, and not accessible to everyone!

Strangely enough I paid about 200 EUR for each one of my 3 GBA flashcarts (64Mb, 256Mb and 512Mb) back in the days and I didn't even know anyone that had one (personally - of course GBAtemp was another case).

 

[Toni Plutonij]

you can't possibly have a decent reason for pirating anything. a try-before-you-buy reasoning okay if the publishers don't release a demo but then most of the time they release adequate in game videos and screenshots. if it has bad controls or the controls are just bad most reviews will cover it so you can expect bad controls.

only reason you don't buy games is simply cause you dont want to pay for them. simple as that. there is no reinforcing the fact you dont want to spend money on games.

then there is also the downside to everyone buying full marked retail game. a reasonable amount of sales is okay but if too much the dev's get a bit greedy and think that they can pass off half-assed sequels and still make a tonne of money. and which most of the time, they do.
I really don't like how people think, if they have everything available for them, then it must be the case with the whole World..
Let me explain, I live in Croatia, we don't have Nintendo stores here, we don't have GameStops, and we don't have any "official" Nintendo resellers..Stores that do have something from Nintendo brand are extremely expensive (approximately twice the price that Americans pay)..Games cost from $60 and up! NDS Lite handheld costs $240, and that's a regular price!

Games that are offered here have nothing to do with a good games, we never had any Final Fantasy games, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars even Pokemon games aren't available..
In case that some game could be imported in or local stores, we would have to wait for Europe release, and that is months (if not more then a year) waiting after the U version is already released..

So don't you (or anyone else) try to speak for everyone, you can state your opinion, and talk for yourself, but you don't know what are conditions in the rest of the World..

QUOTE(Toni Plutonij @ May 25 2009, 08:13 PM) ...
EDIT:And just to point out, I agree that flashcarts should be more expensive, and not accessible to everyone!

Strangely enough I paid about 200 EUR for each one of my 3 GBA flashcarts (64Mb, 256Mb and 512Mb) back in the days and I didn't even know anyone that had one (personally - of course GBAtemp was another case).

I remember paying for my EZ-Flash II Power Star 512Mb a bit more then 100 EUR, it would probably be even more if I hadn't buy it from a German shop..
And as you say, they weren't so spread out..People now complaint over price of AK or DSTT, and that's only few bucks..