Piracy vs Used Game Stores

[trumpet-205]

So many people on this site seem to think that the majority of pirates only pirate games they wouldn't buy or that they go back and pay for the ones they like. That's a pipe dream. Just because someone says something on this site or in a survey, that doesn't make it true. How can anyone post claiming that piracy is victimless and morally "OK", and then expect readers to believe they don't always do it or that they're so virtuous in their abuse of the law?

Feel free to prove us wrong with factual proof. You can find many surveys on whether people will buy legitimate copy if piracy is not an option.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Feel free to prove us wrong with factual proof. You can find many surveys on whether people will buy legitimate copy if piracy is not an option.

Because surveys are accurate.
Because pirates don't want to justify piracy.
Because people don't want to appear more virtuous than they actually are.
But you could always feel free to prove yourself right with factual proof.

 

[Foxi4]

People need to stop blaming used games for everything including cancer, there is nothing wrong with buying used games.

The previous owner of the game has paid the developers for that particular copy of the software and then forfeited his right to use it, bestowing it upon the future user. There is absolutely no reason why the developers should be paid twice for the same copy of the game and even so they already sort of are because of Network Passes and other crap they throw in the user's face in order to justify squeezing some more money out of his/her wallet.

In this regard, a used game is just like any other used goods - you don't pay BMW if you buy a used BMW car, why should you pay EA for buying a used EA game? All the license states is the number of simultaneous users of a given piece of software and that number does not increase - one user stops using the game and another starts so all is well.

Piracy on the other hand is obtaining a copy without paying any contribution whatsoever and using it without having a license allowing you to do so.

I'm pretty sure it's clear which one of those is bad and which one isn't.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Used game stores for sure. Not used games in general, just stores like GameStop that make a huge profit by ripping off people, buying their games for next to nothing and reselling them with up to 1000% profit.

 

[FAST6191]

Used game stores for sure. Not used games in general, just stores like GameStop that make a huge profit by ripping off people, buying their games for next to nothing and reselling them with up to 1000% profit.

Normally I would take the 1000% as literal but that is not really worth it. Is not the argument "if you do not like the prices then do not deal there" and/or "middlemen tend to cost, they do have their benefits though".

 

[FireGrey]

Used games are more popular and those who buy used games are more potential customers for them, since someone willing to pay money for something is more likely to pay for it in full, pirates are less potential customers.

 

[Foxi4]

Used game stores for sure. Not used games in general, just stores like GameStop that make a huge profit by ripping off people, buying their games for next to nothing and reselling them with up to 1000% profit.

Good luck having to deal with eBay sellers for each and every game you want to buy instead of just walking into a shop and buying a game like most people do.

You get your games cheaper than the new copies, the discs are well-maintained (unlike the users who toss their discs around and scratch them, Gamestop and other such stores have machinery to keep those nasty scratches away), the store model gives you a selection of titles to choose from without having to browse too much and that's what you're paying for - the electricity bill, taxes, wages for personel and the rent don't pay themselves y'know.

 

[EzekielRage]

I laugh at the hyprocrite pirates who justify their shit by saying used games are worse than piracy. SMH

 

[FAST6191]

Used games are more popular and those who buy used games are more potential customers for them, since someone willing to pay money for something is more likely to pay for it in full, pirates are less potential customers.

There are various schools of thought that might say maybe not there.

However, and hopefully I have not gone into strawman territory, much of that could be similar to saying "they should target millionaires as they have more disposable income".

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Normally I would take the 1000% as literal but that is not really worth it. Is not the argument "if you do not like the prices then do not deal there" and/or "middlemen tend to cost, they do have their benefits though".

That's true, but they can't be avoided completely. In my city they are the only store that have certain games, and they always get games at launch day unlike the other stores.
It's not just their pricing that's the problem either, but how inconsistent it is. They sell some used games for cheap, and others at almost new price.
I completely understand that they need to make profit from their used game sales, but their profit margin is insane. I'm surprised people bother to sell their games there, but I guess they're all as lazy as me.

Good luck having to deal with eBay sellers for each and every game you want to buy instead of just walking into a shop and buying a game like most people do.

You get your games cheaper than the new copies, the discs are well-maintained (unlike the users who toss their discs around and scratch them, Gamestop and other such stores have machinery to keep those nasty scratches away), the store model gives you a selection of titles to choose from without having to browse too much and that's what you're paying for - the electricity bill, taxes, wages for personel and the rent don't pay themselves y'know.

Well buying used games there isn't the main problem. It's getting rid of your old games and getting basically nothing in return that is.
But the same thing applies with dealing with eBay. Selling stuff online is such a hassle, I tend to either keep my games or give them to gamestop.
It's true that they have a lot of things to pay for that eBay sellers don't, however they are selling new games too - they could still make a good profit if their used games weren't priced as high (and they actually gave you a reasonable price when you sell games), and I think a lot of that money is going right into the pockets of the owners. The profit margin is just insane.

Buying games online is honestly not a big hassle in my opinion. It's more convenient to browse products on a website, and you most likely get better prices. Selling them is a different story, you have to deal with providing correct shipping prices to the customer, tax information to the tax office, packing and shipping things. If selling things online was more convenient, GameStop wouldn't be doing as well with used game sales as they are.
In fact, browsing the used games at GameStop is very inconvenient, they are just piled onto the shelves and there are many copies of certain games and actually finding the one you want/finding one that looks interesting would require being there for a long time searching through everything. On eBay you can just use the search function.

I'm not so sure about the discs being well maintained though; I've seen youtube videos about discs from gamestop that were badly scratched. If the scratches are bad enough before GameStop buy the game, there is not much they can do to buff the scratches away (which is essentially what those machines do). You can do the same thing by hand (using toothpaste, if i remember correctly) but if the scratches are deep enough you won't be able to get rid of them. I'm sure the machines do a better job at it but they're not magic.
Then again I suppose gamestop wouldn't accept discs if they're too badly scratched. But it's a good idea to check the disc before you buy a used game/movie anyway, no matter where you're buying it from. If you're buying it from eBay, avoid sellers that have very scratched discs, it's not hard.

 

[trumpet-205]

The previous owner of the game has paid the developers for that particular copy of the software and then forfeited his right to use it, bestowing it upon the future user. There is absolutely no reason why the developers should be paid twice for the same copy of the game and even so they already sort of are because of Network Passes and other crap they throw in the user's face in order to justify squeezing some more money out of his/her wallet.

Developers have already being paid when they signed the contract with publisher. It is publisher who are against used and rental market. When you buy something the money goes to the publisher. The only reason used market and rental market (including public library) exist is because of First Sale Doctrine or similar law. Without it, you cannot resale or rent your intellectual copy with explicit permission from the publisher.

If you do a little digging you'll see that a lot of publisher or distributor challenge these laws from time to time. The entire entertainment industries viewed First Sale Doctrine as a slippery slope. Why do you think Microsoft wants to implement restrictions on used discs?

It is NOT the consumers who are against used market, it is the industry that thinks used market is doing harm.

 

[FAST6191]

That's true, but they can't be avoided completely. In my city they are the only store that have certain games, and they always get games at launch day unlike the other stores.
It's not just their pricing that's the problem either, but how inconsistent it is. They sell some used games for cheap, and others at almost new price.
I completely understand that they need to make profit from their used game sales, but their profit margin is insane. I'm surprised people bother to sell their games there, but I guess they're all as lazy as me.

The related pithy phrase that I will go to in these conversations is "something is only worth what someone will pay for it" and it seems somewhat apt at this point in time.
I am not quite sure what to say to the rest though

[stuff and rental games]

I do have to note rental is an somewhat separate area of law in a lot of places -- setting up a second hand games shop is as easy as registering as a business wherever you happen to be and maybe dealing with whatever pawn shop type laws might apply. You need to actually be licensed to rent games/buy rental versions of games.

It is NOT the consumers who are against used market, it is the industry that thinks used market is doing harm.

Going by this thread and others it seems the publishers and such like have actually hoodwinked people into believing that it is a bad thing. I recall seeing the first forays a few years back and laughing at them... another demonstration that I am no good at guessing what people will believe I guess.

 

[EzekielRage]

In the end it is a free market decision VS copyright infrindgement.

A pirate takes something that does not belong to him. the original is still there yet he wants a service without paying for it which is against the free market.
a used game buyer is involved in the free market since he is paying for the serveice he gets. who gets that money is up to the competition, in that case gamestop vs the publishers. if gamestop has a better service i.e. price than the publisher as the competition, than gamestop wins. so it should be up to the publisher to make sure people get a service they want to pay for that means a one time download code for a dlc pack as is common ro just price the game lower so that i am not asking for a cheaper game.

so by this logic the pirate is a greedy asshole who doesnt give a shit about fairness and whats right and wrong and somebody who buys used is a pragmatic person who cares about right and wrong and figures a steep price is wrong to pay if i get the same service for a better price. i wont be bullied by publishers after all.

saying that nobody is harmed when you download a game just shows how dumb you are. saying that is not stealing because the original is still there shows how little understanding you have. by that logic i can fuck your girlfriend. she is still there after all i just fucked her but you can still also have her. a very sexist approach to this but probably you people better understand it?

 

[retKHAAAN]

I buy a brand new game @ $60 and want to sell it...
- I could put game on eBay/Craigslist and someone would likely pay $50 for it with no warranty after taking the time to list it and wait for someone to make an offer or buy...
- I could go the convenience route and trade it in at GameStop (or any other game shop that takes trades) and get an instant return (anywhere from $20-$35 dollars worth of credit depending on the game) that while amounts to less money, also saves me from listing/waiting, covers employee wages, pays to keep the store open, and provides the store revenue for the service they've provided.

On the other side of the transaction, I can purchase a used game and get with it a warranty that allows me to return the game for a full refund within 7 days of purchase and not even have to give a reason. For those people who want to "try a game before you buy it" you can basically play the game for a week (possibly even complete it in that time) and then get all of your "collateral" back...

But, yeah... GameStop is the devil and all that tripe...

 

[the_randomizer]

Again, while used sales don't give the original developers any revenue (admit it, the only real people who get money are second-hand retailers), the fact remains the games copyrights typically last 75 years, so whether people are against it for legal or moral reasons, people will always pirate, plain and simple. And yet on the other hand, publishers complain that used games are just as bad as piracy, which I don't agree with at all solely based on the fact that the games are still in circulation (even if it's a finite no. of copies of said game). I don't agree with over-inflation for used games, so if I ever get a used game, I know where I'm going to get it for the cheapest price.

 

[FAST6191]

Again, while used sales don't give the original developers any revenue (admit it, the only real people who get money are second-hand retailers)

Did anybody ever doubt that? Indeed my usual counter is "if you want to be entitled to money from second hand games then invest in a second hand games shop that provides a dividend or offer a similar service".

 

[the_randomizer]

Did anybody ever doubt that? Indeed my usual counter is "if you want to be entitled to money from second hand games then invest in a second hand games shop that provides a dividend or offer a similar service".

Sorry, wasn't trying to argue and what I said came out wrong. It's just the whole mentality of used games being lumped together as piracy is a spurious argument. If places like Gamestop bother me, I have alternate places to get games

 

[Foxi4]

It is NOT the consumers who are against used market, it is the industry that thinks used market is doing harm.

Oh, I know what you mean. The problem is that people began "buying" this "sad story about the poor developers who can barely meet ends because of the evil Gamestop people" and that's just insane.

I fully support buying games new when you want to support the developers of a given title - please do that if you can. If you prefer value prices though and don't mind the fact that the game was previously used, don't feel bad about buying used games because the contribution for those copies was already made.