ROM Hack Phantasy Star 0

kahsajara

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Which drop rates are legit and identical to the retail card?

Can someone with both cards, retail and not, compare and test this please?

Bahamut not patch = Less than Bahamut patched
Bahamut patched = More or Less than Retail???

Not tested:
XPA not patched = ?
XPA patched = ?
(Also, if XPA patched can both see retail users and XPA users, wouldn't that mean XPA Patched, would have legit drop rates?)
Or could it all just be random conclusions and paranoid delusions?

I want to play legit, Thanks
 

twiztidsinz

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Both Bahamut and XPA's ROMs are the same. I have checked and double checked and checked again.

Here's the CRC32's for the various files with and without patching:
Code:
Xenophobia (unfixed*, unpatched, untrimmed) CRC32 = A16C7F05

Xenophobia (fixed*, unpatched, untrimmed)ÂÂ CRC32 = E5C6E212
BahamutÂÂÂÂ(normal, unpatched, untrimmed)ÂÂ CRC32 = E5C6E212

Xenophobia (patched, including auto-trim)ÂÂ CRC32 = A970B86F
BahamutÂÂÂÂ(patched, including auto-trim)ÂÂ CRC32 = A970B86F


*When XPA released their ROM, they messed up and there was a problem with it.
That problem could be easily fixed, and when fixed becomes the SAME ROM, byte-for-byte, as Bahamut.
To fix the ROM, you just add a bunch of "FF"'s in a hex editor to increase it to the proper length/size
To prove my point even further... Bahamut, in their patch flat out says they ripped XPA's patch with no alterations (to the patch itself other than to work on their ROM) even leaving the Xenophobia "crack" screen that shows up on patched versions of the ROM.

Once you 'fix' the XPA ROM by adding FF's to match the length (the 'FF's are what gets cut off when you trim a ROM), XPA's and Bahamut's ROMs are byte-for-byte identical to eachother.


With that said, I'll now address the question you asked about drop rates, and include my theory as to why there are differences in drop rates between patched and unpatched ROMs.

When playing on an unpatched ROM, the vast majority of items you will find are consumables with weapons and armor appearing sparsely and spells being next to impossible to find. When you apply the patch, the drop rate changes, not the total number of items, but the ratio. Armor and weapons become a bit more common, and spells actually appearing with a semblance of frequency (but still not common).
Given how exceptionally rare spells are and what people have said on other forums (that seem to be rather hard-line legit players), I have to go with the patched version having proper drops.

I think the lower drop rates on the unpatched ROM are part of a new, subtle type of Anti-Piracy check that the game does and it's possible that it was only found out because it was tied directly to online play. They know they can't stop us, so they'll throw a monkey wrench in our works and keep us from the good items.
 

toguro_max

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twiztidsinz said:
(...)
When playing on an unpatched ROM, the vast majority of items you will find are consumables with weapons and armor appearing sparsely and spells being next to impossible to find. When you apply the patch (...) armor and weapons become a bit more common, and spells actually appearing with a semblance of frequency (but still not common).
(...)
This.
You know, when I first raised the doubt about the drop rates, I did not mention all the discrepancies of the drops I got with the patched rom.
When I first played the game, I did it with no patch at all, and managed to find (luckyly, I know) a level 3 Resta on my second run (Quest). After this, I've only managed to find another spell several quests later (it was Barta level 2, in case You wanna know).
Meanwhile, I've found several armors and weapons, but of course consumables (mostly monomates/fluids) were more often, but that was how PSO DC was too, so no "big" deal for me.
Then I played online once (no patch yet) with random people, once with a forum fellow and never more managed to matchmake with random people. So I've "heard" about the problem certain carts had on "seeing" others online, and that I had to patch the rom.
Ok, I did it, I patched the rom. Guess what? I still wasn't able to matchmake, and no one from my friend list was online anymore, so I decided to play alone online. I've picked an online quest (don't remember which, but it was on Snowlands) and started playing... From the first box, no consumable came out, only weapons and armors... And the following ones were more or less the same, only dropping materials, digrinders, photon, etc... It was wierd, because I've reached the "boss" with only about 4 monomates and 1 monofluid, but lots of weapons, armors, materials, and some trimates/fluids.
Ok, I've played another one scratching my head, but ok... The same thing happened! Then I thought it could be because I was online, so I decided to disconnect and try it offline.
This time I chose the Mag quest (forgot it's name), and the same thing happend again, and even worse, since a lot of red drops appeared, and on one specific room, the unacceptable (at least for me) happened: from the boxes of 1 room I managed to get:
  • 1 pure Mag (lvl 1)
  • 1 Yth (a mag at level 23)
  • A level 7 Zonde spell (which I can't use, btw)
  • a level 4 Foie spell
  • 2 4-slots armors
  • 1 5 slots (all of 'em I could't use, since They weren't for my class type)
  • 1 trigrinder
  • 2 materials from 2 red drops (I don't remember which)
  • some digrinders (2 or 3)
  • and some trimates (1 or 2)
You know, this above list is not, by any chance (in my opinion), normal on any circunstancies other than messing with the drop rate.
Also, I've managed so see some rare enemies a lot of times, not sporadic as they should be.

Well, that's what I have to say about this matter. Maybe I'm wrong, but every time I patch the rom the drop rate seem to be messed up for me, but maybe PS0 is more "nice" on dropping than PSO DC was...
 

twiztidsinz

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Those are some CRAZY drops...
I've never seen anything like that (and I'm 'stuck' in the tower, so I can't really check) but on my patched ROM, the drops in the tower aren't bad -- they're quite balanced actually... money frequently, a couple weapons with an armor every so often, with mates/fluids and a few spells thrown in.
In fact, I've never seen the treasure boxes drop all weapons/armor, I think at most I've seen 2 weapons + 1 armor + a few money.
 

FencingFoxFTW

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well I'm on AKAIO, loader from last week(same day the game was released I think), XPA unpatched, and I got some stuff from the Snowland quest(the one where Ogi finds a body):

a trimate
4 digrinders
1 power mat
Shield Robe w 4 slots
Light resist lvl3
1 Deo Calibur
lots of other stuff I just sold(guns) or fed the mag with(other weapons and armors)

I dunno...maybe some ppl are unlucky
 

toguro_max

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I've made two runs now so I could kinda compare'em, ok? One of the runs was with a patched rom, and the other was with an "clear" (unpatched) rom. I know that the drops are random, and that you cannot really make an 1-on-1 comparisson, but I think this can give You all an "image" of what I'm saying.
The setup was:
Flascart: R4 DS (original)
Rom release: Xenophobia (XPA)
Stage: Paru
Difficulty: Normal
Access method: Only accessed the stage, no quests
Partners: Sarissa and Ogi
Online: No

Usable Items

Code:
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂPatched / unpatched
MomomateÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂx1ÂÂ/ x2
DimateÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂx5ÂÂ/ x14
TrimateÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ x4ÂÂ/ x4
MonofluidÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ x3ÂÂ/ x4
DifluidÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ x0ÂÂ/ x2
Sol AtomizerÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂx2ÂÂ/ x13
Moon AtomizerÂÂÂÂÂÂ x2ÂÂ/ x2
Star AtomizerÂÂÂÂÂÂ x2ÂÂ/ x7
Trap VisionÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ x2ÂÂ/ x0
Scape DollÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂx0ÂÂ/ x1

Here You can see the difference on "consumables" found one both "versions".

Weapons

Code:
Understanding the codes: N = Native, B = Beast, M = Machine, D = Dark,ÂÂA = Accuracy adjustment and Z = All stats

-=Patched=-
Ray ClaymoreÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0% Z
Ray ClaymoreÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0% Z
Chrome DaggersÂÂÂÂÂÂ15% B
Deo RipperÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ29% M
Iron LanceÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0% Z
Double BladeÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ37% B
Double BladeÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ31% M
StunDouble BladeÂÂÂÂ 0% Z
Double EdgeÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 50% M
HeatClear PulseÂÂÂÂ 25% MÂÂ21% D
Clear PulseÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ0% Z
Clear PulseÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ0% Z
Clear PulseÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 17% M
DarEin CannonÂÂÂÂÂÂ 43% D
Ein CutterÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ24% N
Ein CutterÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0% Z
Ein CutterÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ46% M
Ein CutterÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ22% D
Ein CutterÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ19% D
DrawEin CutterÂÂÂÂÂÂ31% NÂÂ15% B
Total: 20 weapons

-=Unpatched=-
HeatRay ClaymoreÂÂÂÂ 0% Z
HeartClear BangleÂÂÂÂ0% Z
Double BladeÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 0% Z
Chrome CannonÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ0% Z
StunEin CutterÂÂÂÂÂÂ27% BÂÂ15% D
Total: 5 Weapons

Where do You think I can get more weapons? I Think the difference is too much...

Armors

Code:
-=Patched=-
Scale ArmorÂÂÂÂÂÂ 3 Slots
Scale ArmorÂÂÂÂÂÂ 4 Slots
Brigandine ArmorÂÂ0 Slots
Shock FrameÂÂÂÂÂÂ 3 Slots
Shock FrameÂÂÂÂÂÂ 3 Slots
Total: 5 armors

-=Unpatched=-
White RobeÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ0 Slots
Mist RobeÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 4 Slots
Total: 2 armors

Even though the difference is not so high, there is a difference.

Mags

I've found 1 mag (an Yul) using the patched rom. It is a pure power level 23 mag.

Slot Items

I've found 1 Ace/Swift using the unpatched rom

Special Items
Code:
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ Patched / Unpatched
AntiLV7ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ x1 / x0
Small ScrapÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ x3 / x0
Photon DropÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ x3 / x4
MonogrinderÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ x3 / x5
DigrinderÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ x5 / x0
Hit MaterialÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂx1 / x2
Mind MaterialÂÂÂÂÂÂ x2 / x1
Swift MaterialÂÂÂÂÂÂx0 / x1

Most Photon Drops on the patched rom were found on normal boxes, some on the "after-wiping-all-enemies" box and one on a yellow box. Most yellow boxes on the patched rom were red drops.


Well, that's it. I belive this can give you a good picture of the drop rate differences between the patched and the "clear" rom.
Maybe I'm being paranoyd, but I don't know, for me it just does not seems to be only a anti-piracy method...
 

twiztidsinz

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toguro_max said:
I've made two runs now so I could kinda compare'em, ok? One of the runs was with a patched rom, and the other was with an "clear" (unpatched) rom. I know that the drops are random, and that you cannot really make an 1-on-1 comparisson, but I think this can give You all an "image" of what I'm saying.As someone who's played both unpatched and patch for a while now, I can tell you that your findings are DEAD on and show the difference between the two versions EXACTLY.

Now if someone can play on a legit card with the following set up, and compare the results of the consumables/equipment/special (everything else is too low/random to compare properly) we'll know for sure.
toguro_max said:
Stage: Paru
Difficulty: Normal
Access method: Only accessed the stage, no quests
Partners: Sarissa and Ogi
Online: No


QUOTE(Kaos @ Nov 21 2009, 06:00 AM)
I'm going to assume that CycloDS unpatched has legit drop rates, as it connects with the legit/patched versions fine.
I agree with this 100%
I'm pretty sure that the lowered drop rate is tied to the Anti-Piracy that separates Legit/CycloDS and all other flash card users into 'groups'.
 

twiztidsinz

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I hate to double post, but it's over the limit of quote blocks if I edit my previous post...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage....;topic=52321963
Lirishae said:
I asked because there seems to be some anti-piracy measure preventing people from getting these things if it's not a retail cart. My retail cartridge has no problem finding technique discs and rares, but my flash cart, which is completely legal when playing a game I own that I dumped myself, does. It could never get Grants, Megid, Jellen or Zalure, and it never got a single rare drop. It also got tons of healing items and very few weapons or armor. However, this can be circumvented.
Lirishae said:
If you're using the XPA patch to permit online play, it will also fix the drop rates.
sticky_white said:
I believe there actually is some kind of anti-piracy drop rate for this game. My friend had a flashcard with this game and I decided to try it out before buying the game. I played as a FOmarl up to around level 50 and have beaten every quest except for the Eternal Towers on Hard mode. Never once did I get a Technique disk to drop. I only manged to get the 3 Attack and 2 Healing spells from the NPC. The max level they were at were around 5 or 6. I had no access to Grants, Megid, or any of the Healing spells. Also, no Mag souls ever dropped. This is all with about 30 hours of playtime.

Then I bought the retail game for myself. Just couple of minutes into the game as a FOnewearl, the disks were dropping from the treasure crates. Also, it seems that weapons tend to drop more often, compared to the flashcart where only those items like Atomizers, Mates, and Fuids would drop only.
Lirishae
There is definitely an anti-piracy measure affecting drop rates :/ If you possess both the retail version and an unmodified dump of the ROM, and play both equally, you will not fail to notice that the drop rates are like night and day. The Japanese version utilized anti-piracy in the form of freezing the game whenever you tried to make a character, but a fix was released for this before the game even came out. In the US version, this was removed and replaced with more subtle and insidious measures; the terrible drop rates and making players with retail copies always appear offline. If you use the patch to allow online play with retail copies, it will also fix the drop rates. Check it for yourself if you don't believe me; run a stage on either the retail cartridge or a patched ROM, then run it on an unpatched ROM, and compare the loot at the end. The higher level you are, the more apparent the differences are.
 

tinymonkeyt

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I'm not sure, but I dont think AK2 has this problem with unpatched ROMs. I've gotten rares and such (but maybe because I'm playing on hard mode). Can anyone confirm this? Also, I don't really have a problem connecting to other on wifi. I'm using the Bahamut unpatched I believe. If I have time, I think I might compare the results when using the XPA patched.
 

twiztidsinz

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tinymonkeyt said:
I'm not sure, but I dont think AK2 has this problem with unpatched ROMs. I've gotten rares and such (but maybe because I'm playing on hard mode). Can anyone confirm this? Also, I don't really have a problem connecting to other on wifi. I'm using the Bahamut unpatched I believe. If I have time, I think I might compare the results when using the XPA patched.
It's been very mixed on AK2... so I think it has to do with what firmware and version you're using.
Doesn't AK2 have two (or more) firmware? I know it has AKAIO, but it's that "unofficial" or official but in addition to the 'default' firmware?
You should test and report back. Just load up an unpatched ROM and go to the Paru field on Normal and write down what drops you get along the way (You don't need to be as specific about the drops as toguro_max, but it would help), then compare them to toguro_max's drops. While there was only one run done of each, those numbers pretty accurately match what I've seen on both my patched and unpatched runs through the game.


If you want to verify which version of the game you're using, find a CRC checker and match your ROM to the list here:
CRC32
A16C7F05 = XPA UnFixed (UnPatched, UnTrimmed)
E5C6E212 = XPA Fixed/Bahamut (UnPatched, UnTrimmed)
A0507D59 = XPA Fixed/Bahamut (UnPatched, Trimmed NDSTokyoTrim)
A970B86F = XPA/Bahamut (Patched & Auto-Trimmed)
 

toguro_max

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I am compelled to believe that the drop rate issue may be an anti-piracy protection, but it seems so weird... You know, when I play with the "clear" rom, finding something actually good is so satisfactory! But playing with the patched rom makes it so "meh, just one more".
Maybe I'm just being too nostalgic about PSO DC, since it had cruelly low drop rates, and the "fun" was finding something good, and PS0 may have somewhat "fixed" it...
Well, I believe this matter is settled now, as other people have, in a way or another, confirmed the retail game has the drop rate of the patched rom.

Wierd or not, it's more difficult to survive with the patched rom, since You get far less 'mates and 'fluids >-p
 

.Darky

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I got a Hero/Swift on one of the first missions. I thought it was just luck but it seems it was the patch. ._.
 

twiztidsinz

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.Darky said:
I got a Hero/Swift on one of the first missions. I thought it was just luck but it seems it was the patch. ._.
First mission..... on hard?

Because I've never seen higher than Ace on Normal, not even in the Endless Tower.
 

.Darky

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Normal. I found it in one of the first missions.

EDIT: But I found it before applying the online fix patch.
 

twiztidsinz

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Raven Darkheart said:
if youre using a cyclo/ak2* + clean rom = retail drops
anything else + unpatched rom = nerfed drops
anything else + patched rom = retail drops.

*possibly depending on firmware/version
I'm pretty sure AKAIO 1.5 works fine, not sure if there are any other non-AKAIO firmware out there or if older versions of AKAIO will work.
 

Raven Darkheart

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twiztidsinz said:
Raven Darkheart said:
if youre using a cyclo/ak2* + clean rom = retail drops
anything else + unpatched rom = nerfed drops
anything else + patched rom = retail drops.

*possibly depending on firmware/version
I'm pretty sure AKAIO 1.5 works fine, not sure if there are any other non-AKAIO firmware out there or if older versions of AKAIO will work.
youre right. i was assuming people had the latest loaders when i mentioned the ak2
 

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