Nintendo DSiWare encryption and the 3DS

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by Fudge, Apr 26, 2012.

Apr 26, 2012
  1. Fudge
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    Banned Fudge Remember that death is not the end, but only a tra

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    Please don't bash me for the following idea. I thought it would be appropriate to make a new topic, since it pertains more to the DSi than the 3DS. Just for fun, since it's possible to decrypt the DSi channels, would it be possible to resign them with a Title you already have on your DSi/3DS? For example, could I sign the Browser with the title of Cave Story? Since the title is already existent on my DSi/3DS, and the common key is able to sign it, shouldn't it work?? Please correct me if I'm wrong here. I would try it myself, but I don't know how I could compile the .app files. What do you guys think??????
     
  2. avran89

    Member avran89 ALWB 4 LIFE!!! MOOSE!!!

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  3. Foxi4

    Reporter Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Wat?

    That's not how file signing works. The key isn't just in a specified place in the file - the encryption is based on an algorithm, and algorithm that to my knowledge is not cracked yet.

    Sign it with what software?
     
  4. Fudge
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    Banned Fudge Remember that death is not the end, but only a tra

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  5. Foxi4

    Reporter Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Sure, there's the Common Key around - a key that you can do nothing with. And you can swap ID's, but you can't resign the applications, even with the Common Key. So yeah.
     
  6. Janthran

    Member Janthran Solarian

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    I almost laughed.
    And then I almost cried.
     
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  7. Foxi4

    Reporter Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Just to elaborate on what was said... you can't just kneel down and pray to the almighty Common Key to sign your application - a binary is signed with a key via an algorithm and there is no software that is capable of signing DSi applications as of today, in fact, I sincerely doubt that anyone's even remotely interested in that at this point as they're probably busy with the 3DS... so no, you can't sign applications. You can change the ID, fair play, but then the signature will be invalid as the cross-check of the signed file with the expected result will be negative and the binary will not boot.

    If this was that easy, we'd have proper DSiWare dumps and launchers by now.
     
  8. NathanDuma

    Member NathanDuma GBAtemp Regular

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    Does dsiware run in 3ds mode or ds/dsi mode?

    If it ran in 3ds mode then it could be used to hack the 3ds, but only if there was something to sign it.
     
  9. CollosalPokemon

    Member CollosalPokemon ばん。。。かい

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    Take a looooooong thinking period. Kay?
    It's not very difficult to tell.
     
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  10. chauffler

    Banned chauffler Banned

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    I know this is sort of off topic, but can someone give an accurate definition of signing. This forum desperately needs it, and I am also curious about its meaning. Also, is it pretty much the same as encrypting? If not then what separates it from encrypting.
     
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  11. Sychophantom

    Member Sychophantom I'm a plant.

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    And please no big words.

    Not that it would help...
     
  12. Foxi4

    Reporter Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature
     
  13. NathanDuma

    Member NathanDuma GBAtemp Regular

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    Just because it's called dsiware doesn't mean it will run on dsi mode on a 3ds. I asked because I wasn't sure about it. I don't automatically assume things, because you can never be so sure.
     
  14. CollosalPokemon

    Member CollosalPokemon ばん。。。かい

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    Wat. Of course DSiWare runs in DSi mode.
    It's terribly difficult to even argue that DSiWare would run in 3DS mode. (maybe I could see your point IF you were talking about DSiWare running in DS mode but even then there are too many counters to that, and it wouldn't be very logical)

    I never assume things like that. If you pull your DSiWare off of your 3DS it's the same file/data as it would be (albeit with a different TWCert) on a DSi. Please argue to me how a DSi has 3DS mode. I'd love to hear it.
    Additionally TWL programs are coded significantly differently than CTR programs.
    Not to mention we can already decrypt DSiWare. Nintendo wouldn't knowingly make DSiWare run in 3DS mode; it wouldn't make sense to give an older program full access (or access to new parts at least) when the program is decryptable by users publicly. It's kind of the point of the encryption so the user can't tamper with anything.

    DSiWare and 3DS channels are stored on separate partitions for a reason, you know. If they both ran in 3DS mode they wouldn't be in separate partitions.


    I really hoped I wouldn't have to explain it. It's not hard to research this information.
     
  15. iNFiNiTY

    Member iNFiNiTY GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I don't know much about DSi but its like the 'common key' is a public key used for solely decrypting while there's a second private key used for encrypting (which is not on the system). It's probably more complex than that though, the 3DS for example has quite a few keys for various different tasks. Savegames, executables, the carts themselves, wifi traffic etc. sometimes multiple obfuscation schemes for the same data.
     
  16. NathanDuma

    Member NathanDuma GBAtemp Regular

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    It looked as if to me you were assuming. You bolded dsi and dsi mode, so I thought you assumed that. Now I asked a question, don't answer with stuff like that.
     

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