Logic behind Christianity?

[chris888222]

I respect every religion. Although sometimes my relatives think that a particular is 'weird', I still respect their practices

 

[Jamstruth]

It's been noticed that faith and/or religion are actually built into our brains. There is a centre in our brains which lights up when thinking or dealing with religion. So basically our religious beliefs were somehow an evolutionary step and an advantage to us somehow.

The same centre in the brain also lights up when Apple fans are dealing with new Apple products, funny that

 

[FluffyLunamoth]

It's been noticed that faith and/or religion are actually built into our brains. There is a centre in our brains which lights up when thinking or dealing with religion. So basically our religious beliefs were somehow an evolutionary step and an advantage to us somehow.

The same centre in the brain also lights up when Apple fans are dealing with new Apple products, funny that

I think it was actually just based on beliefs of styuff in general. Could be wrong.

 

[Arnold Schwarzen]

That's funny because I've looked into this before, but it seems that whenever I get close to believing, something comes up and makes me say "wait, what?" and puts me back to square one.So, is it possible to be a Christian if you're a logical thinker AND have not been raised with religion?

 

[Raika]

Logic and religion don't go together.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

So, is it possible to be a Christian if you're a logical thinker AND have not been raised with religion?

I'd have to say yes, but it's much much rarer. It's pretty much the same question as "can you be a Christian if raised a Muslim" or vice versa, or replace that with any 2 religions. Yes there are converts, but it seems that for most you have to be raised with it for it to make any sense.

 

[Hebon]

I find that there's a problem asking questions on a forum, as it makes it difficult to properly discuss thoughts and ideas without one person being pushed down and ignored, while another is focused on.

Serious questions need serious answers, and the best way to get that is to ask people in real life so you can actively converse with them.

I wish we could all meet together and sit around and eat or whatever so we could all discuss this. I think it would go much more smoothly and I personally wouldn't feel as though some important information was missed or left out.

 

[Panzer Tacticer]

I've looked into this before, but it seems that whenever I get close to believing, something comes up and makes me say "wait, what?" and puts me back to square one.So, is it possible to be a Christian if you're a logical thinker AND have not been raised with religion?

Logic AND religion?

You seem to have missed the main appeal of 'faith' the ability to simply stop thinking and cop out on the basis that faith fixes anything.

Basically religion is for people ok with suspending logic and simply succumbing to a total crisis of fact.

Myself, I am simply too educated to give a damn what religion wants to put on paper.

 

[doyama]

So, is it possible to be a Christian if you're a logical thinker AND have not been raised with religion?

I'd have to say yes, but it's much much rarer. It's pretty much the same question as "can you be a Christian if raised a Muslim" or vice versa, or replace that with any 2 religions. Yes there are converts, but it seems that for most you have to be raised with it for it to make any sense.

I don't see why not really. MOST people who follow religion are not insane nutjobs. They are reasonable people who have working brains. Religion is a matter of faith. A logical person can simply understand that 'logic' does not apply to religion, just as logic is difficult to apply to ethical, or moral questions. There's nothing inconsistent with thinking in this manner.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

Then Lucifer (Satan's real name) entered the garden and brought sin with him and passed it to humanity through Eve when she ate the apple, then to Adam when he did as well.

Well depends how far you go back, originally the Abrahamic God was El, the head of a pantheon of gods and father of all gods, and Baal (both terms could also be used as a honorific) was one of his children. When they moved over to monotheism El became the one true God and Baal became Beelzebub.

QUOTE(doyama @ Jul 11 2011, 02:09 PM) I don't see why not really. MOST people who follow religion are not insane nutjobs. They are reasonable people who have working brains. Religion is a matter of faith. A logical person can simply understand that 'logic' does not apply to religion, just as logic is difficult to apply to ethical, or moral questions. There's nothing inconsistent with thinking in this manner.

I didn't say there where any inconsistencies there, and I never said all people who follow a faith are nutjobs. I just said it seems like the vast majority can not do that sort of mental gymnastics and doublethink unless they are raised in a faith. EDIT: I did point out people can move from purely rational to being a believer, I just said it was much rarer. And most just become general Deists rather than believers in one of the specific Gods of recognised religions.

 

[Hebon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chris...kers_in_science

This might help to show that many great thinkers were also Christians.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chris...kers_in_science

This might help to show that many great thinkers were also Christians.

But it doesn't prove anything. In fact, as the years flew by, less and less of them were Christians. People, over time, grew more secular because more realize that religion is rubbish in terms of defining their world.

EDIT: Serious grammatical and structure issues.

 

[Magmorph]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chris...kers_in_science

This might help to show that many great thinkers were also Christians.

But it doesn't prove anything. In fact, as the years flew by, less and less of them were Christians. Because people over time grew more secular because more realize that it's rubbish.

The Church also had a habit of killing heretics. Not believing in the Church would cause a person to be ostracized and threatened eternal torture.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chris...kers_in_science

This might help to show that many great thinkers were also Christians.

Yes, but notice how unlike the general population where you have to point out the atheists, in the sciences you have to point out the believers. Yes this might be because more people from a secular background choose to work in those fields but you've got to ask why.

 

[YetoJesse]

ok, you know, believe what you like, but when you start seeing a big-@ss guy up in the clouds, saying he made people with adam and eve and saying that incest is bad... I'm looking the other way "face-palming" myself.. there's not much logic behind religion itself, just that you have some sort of hope after you die...
also, don't go blastin' yerself up because you want a bunch of virgions... (typo? XD)
I'll believe that which I can see and touch when I'm sober, not what some hobo says who can turn water into wine...

Posts merged

P.s., Adolf Hitler was a (part) jew...

 

[Apex]

Don't you have more important things to worry about?

My opinion: Organized religion is nothing other than archaic propaganda, I used to think that if I lead a good life and didn't care about the details, most religious beliefs are the same in basic rule sets of what is acceptable behavior, and if there is some kind of god out there, they'd be forgiving enough to see that I've followed the rules and hopefully not punish me for it.

Life is to short to spend it doing anything other than what you want to, and if you ask me religion is a chore more than anything, tells you what to do, when to do it and usually not why to do it. Don't go looking around for salvation, make it look for you.

 

[Fat D]

I see nothing wrong with a belief in the supernatural while staying rational under a few key points:
Treat religious scripture as fallible, man-made word. It has been written by people inspired by their faith, not by any supernatural entity itself. The biblical canon has been selected by popularity, not by divine judgment. The Koran (or however you wish to transliterate it) being directly copied from the god himself on the other hand is part of the fundament of religion, so if you want to be a rational muslim you might want to be fairly liberal with the faith. That did not stop the muslim world from scientific success in its early ages, though. Probably because it did not explain enough to get into conflict with the scripture.
Do not consider divine intervention the default state. The deistic view explains why the laws of nature are as reliable as they are. It considers the supernatural power as having set up the universe at the beginning and letting it develop with a minimum of interference. Many great minds of modern Christianity subscribed to that viewpoint, and the aformentioned muslim science started to fall when their theology started to consider every single event in nature a direct result of divine will.
Do not subscribe to organized religion. Churches have their places as organizers of charity, and membership in one might pose you as a believer to those who would otherwise doubt it, but they tend to teach that faith is more important than reason. Do not blindly follow what preachers say.


Then again, those suggestions come from an agnostic atheist, so you decide what to make of it.

 

[Foxi4]

<!--quoteo(post=3768040:date=Jul 11 2011, 07:42 AM:name=Shinigami357)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shinigami357 @ Jul 11 2011, 07:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3768040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First off, nothing against you, but you this post just seemed to be perfect for my current argumentative mentality...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No offence taken.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Logic and Religion should be kept separately - God's ways cannot be explained by simple human logic, his design cannot be described with letters or digits. There is a greater pattern going on in the world, something we cannot comperhend, just believe it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This is one of the reasons religion is always the most fundamental rival of logic and science. To put it simply, you cannot have the best of both worlds without taking the burden of either. It's just not possible - one way or the other, your belief/faith <b>will</b> clash with your logic. There's no getting around that, and I think assuming that there's a way to do so is denying that humans are free to study the things they believe in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you think that is a fact? Science explains matters of this world, while religion explains anything that is spiritual. It's really simple when you think about it.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Consider this, of all "illogical" things, religion in general is the only one that denies almost all ties to science and logic. Love is being studied, the supernatural is being studied, extraterrestrials are being studied, legends and myths get studied. Why can we not study the most important thing in the history of humanity [yes, religions is the most important thing in history; there is no denying that fact]? Because its leaders say no? Because its believers hate the idea?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm againts any form of clerical leadership, so that's not really a question to me.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Obviously, science unveils some mysteries, but do notice that explaining one thing creates two questions. I do believe that we'll never answer the questions like "what's the point of life" etc. - they're too subjective, too vague, and that's why "religion" was created.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Some questions are questions only to the human mind. Some things just are, scientifically speaking. For example, "what is the point of life?" is the question. Biologically, life is about ensuring the existence of the future generation. Of course, that's fine for animals and plants, but humans just ask more, they want more. It's inherent in the human nature, and no fault of science whatsoever - our curiosity, our problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I choose to ask for more than just reproduction and want to leave a mark in history, even if it will be insignificant. God blessed us with the power of the mind and creativity for the reason, so I'll do my best to utilize my talents to the fullest extent.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now, religion-wise, does that also answer <b>all</b> our questions without creating further ones? Or are we asked to be content just to keep the questions to ourselves and [of course] believe that the answer is out there. That's not even an answer, that's called evading the question entirely, though no one seems to mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember that religious concepts are the creation of man, and nothing created by man is perfect.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The point of being religious is to believe in a supreme being - the world works according to too strict rules to be a coincidence in my opinion. It was "meant" to work as it does and left for us to keep and maintain. It's not supposed to have sense, it's supposed to be a moral framework of your life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Too strict rules? Most of the rules we live in are logical. [for example's sake] Eat something poisonous, do something stupid = die | breath oxygen, eat, drink = live. That's not strict, it's just life. Now if you were talking about the rules that govern the universe... How do we say they are "too strict to be coincidence" when we have yet to understand them all? That's presumptive judgment, IMHO. As far as I've researched, the universe works under rules that allow it to either maintain or change itself [depends which theories you subscribe to, really] while allowing it to work.

Wait, you're telling me that our moral framework shouldn't make sense? I think above all things that religion gives us, morality is the most logical of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you disagree with my theory that a clockwork mechanism of planets cannot be created via tripping over 8 rocks? Because that's what you're trying to pull off here, and I just don't buy it. As far as the moral framework, of course it has to make sense. I never said it shouldn't and don't really have any clue where you got that from.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Take bible for example - a set of stories that are more or less sensical, mostly fiction though. However, following them does point towards what's "evil" and what's "good", and that was the idea behind creating it and editing it over and over.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ouch. As something of an aspiring writer, I take affront at this sentiment. Fiction is a form of escapism, not a guide for anyone. It's true, some works of fiction do indeed give out small facets of good or bad [thus protagonists and antagonists/conflict etc] but fiction is just that - fiction.

Please do not tell me that the bible is fiction. It does not fly - with me or with the people who [continually deny that they] supposedly created it. It's almost unfair to have something so reverently "holy" be called fiction - it's almost insulting. Again, you can't have things both ways, without taking the burden of either. Either the bible is God's words/our moral compass or it's fiction, and nothing other than fiction.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I have a little saying, "If God wanted us to have Bibles, it'd rain Bibles every Sunday. No such occourence was observed as of yet". Qu-ran, the Bible, the Tora and other "Holy Books" are works of man and if someone fails to understand that, then he's very, very gullible. Are they words of God though? Yes, they are. They were written under the inluence of the "Godly Inspiration". Some stories within them are factual, however they're all spiced up and filled with metaphores to enhance the moralistic aspect of the whole.

If you're an aspiring writer, you should've known that throughout the history of mankind, many works of fiction had a moralistic aspect and their point was to build a moral backbone of the reader. How about John Milton's works? Ever heard of him?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Religion is not composed of "facts". That's what science is for. Religion is a set of vague theories that are open for interpretation. These are just things *you* believe in, the way *you* comperhend them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I've sincerely never heard any religious leader/preacher/believer saying that their beliefs are open to personal interpretations. Maybe you're luckier than I in that respect, but for the most part, religion is a set of beliefs you either believe in or don't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't listen to preachers for the most part, but I have met some that share my views.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Truth to be told, *you* create your own version of "religion", whichever one you choose, since as a human being, you interpret things in a specific, one-of-a-kind way... and this is a good thing, really.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If only this were true. I mean, it's possible - for certain individuals anyway - but to the majority, having to make up their own beliefs might not be their cup of tea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it's just that the majority are gullible sheep that'll believe just about anything.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway, to make my point brief... Like I said before, you can't have logic and religion without them entangling one time or the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I've been doing that successfuly with no tangling involved for years. You CAN.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One way or the other, you'd have to make a choice of either having to live with them both in some capacity [thus being constantly torn apart] or giving up one of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Logic is not a religion. It does not have to replace my Christianity. I have no idea why the concept is so alien for you.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I went with the first, out of personal preference: I take everything logically [unless I'm pissed, but that's natural for humans] but I believe that there is a "higher power" somewhere, whether it be God/some deity or the mere incomprehensible workings of the universe. And that works for me. Your own preference of logic/religion is up to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So you're a logical thinker that believes in a higher diety in the universe? Well then you're a Spiritually Logical Thinker, and welcome to the crowd. The difference between you and me is pure nomenclature - you call that "thing" a "Diety" while I call it "Jahve".

 

[ManFranceGermany]

I've looked into this before, but it seems that whenever I get close to believing, something comes up and makes me say "wait, what?" and puts me back to square one.So, is it possible to be a Christian if you're a logical thinker AND have not been raised with religion?

Lets face it, Religions are for morons. Thats the case for all Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). At least the Buddhists and Hindus doesn't have this arrogance you can find in all Abrahamic religions.

Did you ever read the Quran? Its not any better!
And now let the hate of the muslims on Gbatemp begin "no, you're not right, Islam is the best, you just had a bad translation or misinterpreted it, Islam is so peaceful and wonderful" ... yea sure... as peaceful as Christians, which made million of crusades and killed Muslims and Jews.
And about Judaism, don't let me even begin.

The most funny part is, this strict muslims which want the sharia law(islamic law), are not any worse than strict Christians and Jews.
In Israel strict Jews, don't even want to sit beside women ina bus! can u imagine that shit? they want to have seperate buses! Same things for strict Christians.
Maybe they should talk with each other and see that they want the same idiotic shit.

This three Religions say that they did so much good to the people, really, do you believe that native Americans or older cultures didn't have a working society and they were less peaceful as us today??? do this religious people really believe this???

People might say, that at time of Judaism, later Christianity and even more later Islam, religious rules (don't kill other people, don't steal...yea, seems that we had to learn this...lol) were good. This might be true, i mean lets face it, rapes were normal, women had even less rights than what this religions finally gave them. But today they are a relict!

Ask a strict Christian, Jew, Musilm which religion is the best... do you really belive he will say, "mine is good, but the other is just fine too"?

For making a long story short, all religions are unlogic.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

And about Judaism, don't let me even begin.

I'd have to say that at least they don't threaten you with eternal torture for not believing. It's at that point they (Christianity, Islam, and their offshoots) lose the argument as far as I'm concerned. It's like a bad parent or bully or something, "do what I say or I'll fucking break your legs...". And also correct me if I'm wrong but don't Jews also believe any good person will end up in heaven whether they believe or not?