Last game skill you "unlearned"

Discussion in 'General Gaming Discussion' started by FAST6191, Jul 18, 2018.


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    tempy_thinker.

    Heuristics is a term used in game design to describe a concept where the maths, comprehension or similar required is beyond a given person, or at least the time given for them to contemplate the problem, and the instead develop things that "will do". With many games being mathematically mind boggling* and commonly reaction based game playing types will inevitably create their own for games.

    *chess is commonly considered here where the number of potential states of a board after 6 moves apiece is astronomical. A game like street fighter probably has that beat after a few frames.

    Mario Kart provides some of the purest examples of this. For instance do you know the position of every other racer in the game? As it is a rubber band affair and set after the first race in many instances then do you know the positions of last race and thus what might go here? Do you know what weapons they have? Can you create the equivalent of this for cornering Chances are the answers to those are
    No (but there is a map if I need it)
    Not unless the points difference matters or might matter.
    Not unless I see it coming for me or just passed it (unless I am in first place then oh dear blue shell alert)
    No but I sort of "feel it" and "know where to go".
    Consider also that many "competitive" players will have "better" answers to those questions.
    It also provides nice examples of the second aspect of this discussion. Compare either turbo starts or cornering/corner boost tactics between the various versions. If you put in a lot of time in one then how is either going to a sequel or returning to an old game and having to deal with "muscle memory" in some way? It need not be a sequel either and could just be another game in the same gameplay style.

    We can go a bit more abstract as well. What do you do when you encounter inverted look controls or occasions where strafe and turn are "swapped"?

    Speaking of heuristics a fine example was once relayed on Mario Kart. Is first place in the lead? Many would answer yes. Others that sit and think about it would consider the equalising potential of the mighty blue shell and maybe instead point at a close second place character.

    This is part of series on GBAtemp where we have some discussion of aspects of the game industry, game design and related topics. Previously we discussed The game you invested the most money in.


    Hopefully this time not all the primary examples were taken in the opening post and you can then join in discussing times where you had to "unlearn" a skill, heuristic or control preference for a game as well as other interesting aspects related to it.
     
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    Discussion (29 replies)
  1. snails1221

    snails1221 GBAtemp Fan

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    The first thing that comes to mind is switching between console and PC or even just switching between two diffrent consoles. If I've been playing a game on one platform for even a small amount of time, it can take me up to a week to adapt to the other platform's control style.
     
  2. Kyouken

    Kyouken Repairer of the Breach

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    I've been playing loads of Monster Hunter World recently (logged my 300th hour yesterday if that tells you anything.) Monster Hunter has plenty of quirks on its own, but I won't be getting into those. What I'd like to mention is the weapons - each weapon has its own playstyle. Sure, many have similar points in their playstyles, but to truly grasp any one weapon, you have to spend enough time with it to figure out its nuances. Something else that's important to factor in here is personal playstyle. I'll define "personal playstyle" as a way of thinking as opposed to a "weapon playstyle," one that suits that weapon the best for maximum efficiency.

    My friend and I were discussing our personal playstyles yesterday - he goes for riskier plays and doesn't always get his health in a good range. I, on the other hand, make sure that I can tank a hit at almost all times. He'll go in with maybe half a health bar or less to get that play which gives him a large opening for damage. I do what I can defensively and only go for large damage-dealing singular hits. If you've played Monster Hunter, you can probably guess at which weapons we like to use the most.

    I'm most comfortable using the Greatsword, where my friend is most comfortable using the Longsword.

    The Greatsword is a slow, tactical weapon that you have to charge up for maximum damage. It comes with two defensive options - a block, which uses the literal sword to block an attack, or a shoulder tackle, which, when timed correctly, reduces the damage taken as well as eliminates knockback. It features some of the best singular damage-dealing attacks out of any weapon. But because it's slow, you have to constantly sheath it so you're not walking around with weights on your legs.
    The Longsword is different. No blocking capabilities, but it does feature a counter. Hard to pull off, yet a Godsend when you can. It's a fluid weapon with small evasive capabilities thanks to a move that pushes you away in a direction. From what I've experienced, each move can be chained into one another. The main mechanic is the "Spirit Gauge," which, for simplicity's sake, will increase your damage when correctly leveled. Maximizing efficiency with it means getting that gauge to the highest level, which also requires the connection of a certain combo. High risk, high reward, which is why my friend excels here.

    Yesterday we played a match with each other for fun while using opposite weapons.

    In order to get the gauge up and deal effective damage, I had to abandon my playstyle for the time being. The fight went great (we made it easier with our armor and what not,) so we could just focus on using the weapons. I dealt as much damage as he did using the Greatsword and even contributed to important moments. But I had to learn to really get in there, keep my weapon out, and combo-combo-combo.

    Now, the only thing I can think that makes this different than the initial question is that this was not due to a mechanic I was used to and the game didn't have it. Or, it wasn't because I had to find a way around mechanics I didn't quite grasp. Rather, the game itself presented opportunity for growth by forcing me to think differently or die. I find Monster Hunter interesting in that you can still have two distinct playstyles while playing one weapon, and each weapon encourages a certain style of play, forcing you to broaden your horizon.

    I still want my health full though, dang it.
     
  3. x65943

    x65943 Dr. Rabbi Prince X, Sr., Ed. D.

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    Similar to this. Trying to play smash Bros with a different controller is just awful.

    So many years of muscle memory down the drain. The knee jerk responses actually fight against you.
     
  4. BrandonE1993

    BrandonE1993 Newbie

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    More recently I'd have to say switching to controller from mouse and keyboard. I also tried playing guitar hero not too long ago.. definitely not the rockstar I used to be:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by BrandonE1993, Jul 18, 2018
  5. Song of storms

    Song of storms GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Whenever I play a platform that uses the first button to jump and the second to run.
     
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  6. RedoLane

    RedoLane GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Rather than "Unlearning" a skill, there was a time I had to "unlearn" common gaming logic in order to progress the correct way in a specific game.
    That game is Undertale.


    Don't open if you never finished Undertale
     
    Last edited by RedoLane, Jul 18, 2018
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  7. Zense

    Zense GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    There's probably lot's of examples, especially going from one game to it's sequel/spinoff.

    One example from the top of my mind right now is the card based system in Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories, where you had to start planning and use different tactics for the more difficult boss battles than the usual Kingdom Hearts' "attack, heal and repeat".

    A different story is my first playthrough of Super Mario Bros and The Lost Levels on NES. I had to unlearn years of playing modern mario games/platformers. If you don't know those early mario controls feel like you're controlling a train...
     
    Last edited by Zense, Jul 18, 2018
  8. brunocar

    brunocar GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    im a huge fan of megaman, i grew up with inti creates's megaman zero saga, but i got so used to the smooth dashing and short kill times with melee weapons that encourage rushing your enemy before they can attack, that when i play megaman X it feels too slow until i get really into it
     
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  9. Vieela

    Vieela GBATemp's official thinker™

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    When there's a game that uses B for jumping and A for something else, and other game that uses B for something else and A for jumping, i really have a hard time getting used to these controls. It's always a back-and-forth thing, i just really usually cannot get used to it easily.
     
  10. pthfdr

    pthfdr Advanced Member

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    A is for confirmation/primary action (attack etc). B is for cancellation/secondary action (jumping etc). X (or start in older consoles) is for menu.
     
    Last edited by pthfdr, Jul 18, 2018
  11. natanelho

    natanelho GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Between the Sacred Silence and Sleep
    had to stop the big red button after playing a lot of pokemon. this costed me twice my files (just press the enter until all dialogs go away) and big chunk of story in a zelda game.
    you cant sanely play pokemon without mashing the A button all the time when somebody speaks. its soooo slooow... even battles are slow- have to press A to use the best attack over and over again...
    abother thing is getting used to notmal speed vs getting used to 10x on an emulator. I need to be relaxed to even try to play on console w/o fast forward. the whole feeling is different...
    fun story- I had an old laptop, something from 2006 and tried to play meatboy. I was bad at first, becausr you have 0.5 seconds of lag between button press and response- Im not even kidding!- but I mastered it. I had to thinm 0.5 seconds ahead- pushing a button before thr bad thing even came close! later I had to unlearn that when I played on a normal pc...

    I never had the problem with controls- I always set the settings as I like em, or just dont play. I play some games on both pc and a controller-based console and never thought about the possibity of having problems witj the controlls...

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    all games should use A for jump. fuck all the other games.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    ah and wtf why does pressing the right button on nintendo means ok, but on xbox it means cancel? had problems with that too
     
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  12. elBenyo

    elBenyo Wad of meat.

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    Damn Retropie wants you to use Nintendo's placement of "B" and "A" buttons to go back and forward, unfortunate if you use a 360 controller because Microsoft uses them backwards by comparison.
     
  13. Zense

    Zense GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    In a distant and alternative future where humans have forgotten all about religion, they will be fighting over whether A or B should be cancel or confirm...
     
  14. JiveTheTurkey

    JiveTheTurkey GBAtemp Fan

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    I can't left click now. My mouse started double clicking after long play of the Steam Alien Invaders community game, I guess mashing your mouse button takes a toll. I switched the primary click after it drove me crazy and now I can't go back to it.
    (I feel like I misunderstood the topic..)
     
  15. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    I'm going with "jump controls". I play some retro games lately (mario land! mario land 2! :D ), and man...back then, when you jumped in a platformer, it allowed for far less control and precision than is currently the standard. :P

    While somewhat unrelated, I...can't make the connection between the thread title and the opening post (sorry, @FAST6191 :( ). I had to resort to the first reactions to know just what the discussion was really about.
     
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  16. sarkwalvein

    sarkwalvein There's hope for a Xenosaga port.

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    tfw you go from a game that uses A for jump on the XBONE to one that uses A on the Switch and you want to kill yourself.
    Actually, whenever you've been playing either XBONE or Switch and go to the other one, and start cancelling everything instead of accepting, even struggling to make your way around the Home screen and launch a game. (though, already pointed out before)
     
  17. natanelho

    natanelho GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    yep I agree.. the idea of the same button (the right one) having different actions and names on different consoles is annoying

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    whatever. just choose one and use it. this thing should have beem standard by now, after 50 years of gaming...
     
  18. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    reading through the manual on the way home......cheap b@$%@£ds

    granted I didn't ever really learn much from it, and the internet means you can look up whatever you want....but still
     
    Last edited by gamesquest1, Jul 19, 2018
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  19. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    I'd probably suck at RTS games now despite hundreds of hours in Warcraft 3, as well as earlier Warcraft, Starcraft and Command and Conquer games. There just hasn't been anything new in that category to grab my attention for some time. Of course, I've gained new skills since then from Soulslikes and roguelikes, but that's not what this discussion is about.
     
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