Hacking I have a crazy theory. only a crazy theory though

[chauffler]

Well I doubt anyone could do this but I you had gnarly RAM analyzing skills you might be able to find the decryption code on the 3ds hardware but that would be really hard core and I'm not a computer expert but I know the decryption code has to be stored on the RAM(during the time of decrypting) so if you could get something to monitor the RAM You could dump all the values from it (during the time of decryption) and run the values through cracking software I don't know how you would be able to do this or if it's even possible but I wanted to add my stupid idea to the mix

You would have to rip apart the 3DS, but still have it running.
Plus there is A LOT of code to analyze, and i mean a ridiculous amount.
@OP Ok sounds good, just go get the keys and come back to us.
>.> This is like talking about breaking into a house, but when you get the key to the front door.

Then it's pretty ridiculous how people hack these devices you don't have access to any info from the 3ds yet your still able to write and get software to run on it that's pretty hardcore I'm pretty sure there is no hope at all for hacking an update though because you can't even look at the RAM and brute force would take billions of years and nintendo would never use a simple password because that would be insane

 

[Kaleadoskope]

Aw man, why is it that whenever some progress is made, all the noobs have to noob all over it.

I would like someone to make it clear that:

1. You can't bruteforce anything in this day and age.
2. Your theories have all been considered by hackers, and there are rumours that tell us that the 3DS has been cracked (Rumours, though).
3. There will likely be a hardware hack first, if you're going to look for something, look for a hardware hack, not a software one.

Thank you.

 

[chauffler]

Aw man, why is it that whenever some progress is made, all the noobs have to noob all over it.

I would like someone to make it clear that:

1. You can't bruteforce anything in this day and age.
2. Your theories have all been considered by hackers, and there are rumours that tell us that the 3DS has been cracked (Rumours, though).
3. There will likely be a hardware hack first, if you're going to look for something, look for a hardware hack, not a software one.

Thank you.

I said it would take billions of years to brute force it and you thought I was serious? Ya I know some hackers probably already thought of our theories but it's fun to guess. Hardware hacks are lame you have to buy stuff to get them to work and thats one of the reasons why they come out first and @everyone if you can read this A€{=$29dP€G#Q•p you can crack stuff with your mind

 

[Kaleadoskope]

Huh, I didn't think you were serious, I was referring to the other threads that propose hackers try to do that.

 

[MADKATZ99]

It is because those people believe "If the hackers can't do it, neither can we"

Let me remind you though, this is my favorite quote:

Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic

Yes, but in this case it won't work. The updates must be encrypted with the common key, and signed with the private key. AFAIK, no one has either at the moment, and the most anyone is ever likely to get is the common key unless Nintendo made a Sony-esque failure with the security. The only chance of a modified update is via an exploit in the security system, akin to the Trucha Bug on the Wii (which negated the need for the private key). And obviously they won't have put the trucha bug back in. They're not that stupid.

Didn't the Trucha bug come after the first modchip? I could be horribly wrong.

 

[Redhorse]

It is because those people believe "If the hackers can't do it, neither can we"

Let me remind you though, this is my favorite quote:

Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic

Yes, but in this case it won't work. The updates must be encrypted with the common key, and signed with the private key. AFAIK, no one has either at the moment, and the most anyone is ever likely to get is the common key unless Nintendo made a Sony-esque failure with the security. The only chance of a modified update is via an exploit in the security system, akin to the Trucha Bug on the Wii (which negated the need for the private key). And obviously they won't have put the trucha bug back in. They're not that stupid.

It seems people like to sophisticate the problem so they sound pretty professional.

Look, if you don't know the whole truth, than just say "Well, it is encrypted, but I don't know if it will be that hard or easy to exploit"

Why can't people just admit that it might or might not work. It sounds like you know it won't work. But, that is just my opinion.

Also, it is called trial and error.

It's because they need to stroke thier own ego with something besides thier right hand.. . No one else would ...

 

[chauffler]

Huh, I didn't think you were serious, I was referring to the other threads that propose hackers try to do that.

Ok that's understandable but you could've posted on their thread and not this one so it didn't confuse me

 

[chauffler]

(warning completely unrelated to thread probably should be a thread though) Are their any real hackers on this forum or is everyone like me where they understand a little code a couple of concepts, and no experience

 

[BlueStar]

Updates are signed, we don't have the key, the key isn't in the 3DS, you can't brute force it, if it was this simple it would have been hacked already, the Ark didn't exist, end of thread.

 

[Neku_Sakuraba]

Suppose we...ok stay with me here. Suppose we first use the NUS downloader...hey, you staying with me here? We use the NUS downloader to first download an update. We then mod it somehow...but thats not the point, this is just a theory on how to install the mod.

Ok. then we update while filtering and editing packets sent from the router to your ds with some random router tools. Swap out the files downloded from the nintendo servers with the modded ones on your computer.

That is my theory.

Of course, I haven't tried it yet, but a friend tried installing a normal update that way and it worked. I don't know if modded firmware installed the same way will work or not, because I thought the 3ds had good security.

No, the update must be signed. That's the only problem; if we had the key... we could hack the DSi/3DS
, but a friend tried installing a normal update that way and it worked
Yeah... and my Mac OSX downloaded some Windows 7 updates.

Now what if we could find som kind of exploit that would make the update file give us the key or something along those lines. Though you would have to be one BADASS MOTHER*****R Code Decrypter.

 

[Neku_Sakuraba]

BTW Lets say you were the guy who had that idea that worked and the 3DS got hacked? If you posted a seperate Topic you would get all the glory right? Thats why they don't post in the right places for this SHIT!

 

[Coto]

...

uhm

 

[SifJar]

It won't work.

He never mentioned trying to exploit the security system. He simply thought he could send a modified update, which will not work. Perhaps it would be possible to exploit it. But that is NOT what the OP was talking about. What he said will not work. That is a fact.

 

[nano351]

It won't work.

He never mentioned trying to exploit the security system. He simply thought he could send a modified update, which will not work. Perhaps it would be possible to exploit it. But that is NOT what the OP was talking about. What he said will not work. That is a fact.

it'll work if you can sign and encrypt your modified update

 

[chauffler]

It won't work.

He never mentioned trying to exploit the security system. He simply thought he could send a modified update, which will not work. Perhaps it would be possible to exploit it. But that is NOT what the OP was talking about. What he said will not work. That is a fact.

it'll work if you can sign and encrypt your modified update

You can't magically figure out an encryption key and I don't know what signing is but it probably makes it even harder which wouldn't matter because no one could ever crack a 128bit encryption key unless you had a computer 20 years from the future oc'ed with like 8 gpus I'm no hacker but you can't crack an encryption key over 9 characters (which is equal to some number of bits) you need to find another way to gain access to a system then if you are like a root user or something you might be able to look at the encryption key. the wi fi update doesn't sound like a feasible way to hack the system yet

 

[Ravenius]

I don't know what signing is
Then why bother telling everyone else they are wrong if you're not even sure?

no one could ever crack a 128bit encryption key
Why not, it's been done a million times.

a computer 20 years from the future oc'ed with like 8 gpus
8 processors? So if I rebuilt 4 computers like mine, I'd be able to do it? Why does the amount of processors matter?

I'm no hacker but you can't crack an encryption key over 9 characters (which is equal to some number of bits)
Wrong... I guess you're trying to talk about bruteforcing? And really, it's equal to some number of bits?
QUOTE

you need to find another way to gain access to a system then if you are like a root user or something you might be able to look at the encryption key.

I don't even...
QUOTE

the wi fi update doesn't sound like a feasible way to hack the system yet

Right, so does nothing else at the moment. There is no "feasible way" to hack any system, but you shouldn't rule anything out as there'd be nothing left after that.

 

[chauffler]

I don't know what signing is
Then why bother telling everyone else they are wrong if you're not even sure?

no one could ever crack a 128bit encryption key
Why not, it's been done a million times.

a computer 20 years from the future oc'ed with like 8 gpus
8 processors? So if I rebuilt 4 computers like mine, I'd be able to do it? Why does the amount of processors matter?

I'm no hacker but you can't crack an encryption key over 9 characters (which is equal to some number of bits)
Wrong... I guess you're trying to talk about bruteforcing? And really, it's equal to some number of bits?
QUOTE

you need to find another way to gain access to a system then if you are like a root user or something you might be able to look at the encryption key.

I don't even...
QUOTE

the wi fi update doesn't sound like a feasible way to hack the system yet

Right, so does nothing else at the moment. There is no "feasible way" to hack any system, but you shouldn't rule anything out as there'd be nothing left after that.

If you can't bruteforce or dictionary(obviously wouldn't work) attack then what can you do to crack it (remember it's a 3ds not a PC with Linux installed on it)? I was just trying to say that no one will be able to crack it unless they have greater access over the system(which would require hacking the 3ds which would make it pointless) I know a lot of the stuff I said in previous posts were pretty stupid but listen to this the 3ds will not be hacked this way because encryption hacking is waaaayyyy to hard (especially on a 3ds) and there are probably way easier routes that hackers are examining right now

 

[Ravenius]

If you can't bruteforce or dictionary(obviously wouldn't work) attack then what can you do to crack it (remember it's a 3ds not a PC with Linux installed on it)? I was just trying to say that no one will be able to crack it unless they have greater access over the system(which would require hacking the 3ds which would make it pointless) I know a lot of the stuff I said in previous posts were pretty stupid but listen to this the 3ds will not be hacked this way because encryption hacking is waaaayyyy to hard (especially on a 3ds) and there are probably way easier routes that hackers are examining right now

Umm, they can find a vulnerability anywhere in the system that could help in this case.
What do you mean by "it's not a PC with Linux installed on it"? I mean obviously it has it's own operating system and different hardware, but how does that affect bruteforcing?
I'm unsure what you mean by "greater access" that would require "hacking" the 3DS. This "greater access" sounds like getting admin rights to the 3DS, and I cannot see why that'd be possible. As you said, it's not a PC and has its own operating system which probably doesn't allow you to type in a master password to unlock the whole device.

You're using really loose terms like "hacking" and "cracking" without saying really anything. Encryption hacking? What do you mean by that? It's not as black and white as you think.

 

[machomuu]

It won't work.

He never mentioned trying to exploit the security system. He simply thought he could send a modified update, which will not work. Perhaps it would be possible to exploit it. But that is NOT what the OP was talking about. What he said will not work. That is a fact.

it'll work if you can sign and encrypt your modified update

OK, then where's the proof?

 

[chauffler]

@machomuu I love you