How do you feel about abortion?

[JellyPerson]

Do I have any numbers for what? People who don't casually have abortions? I don't see why I need numbers for that as I doubt numbers are even kept or accurately represented.
Having a child is a bad thing if someone can't provide the means of taking care of that child. I would be an example of someone who shouldn't have a child. I have several medical conditions that can be passed down, including an immune system disorder that has been slowly destroying my nervous system. I am more than likely going to die before I hit 50. I also have bipolar disorder that makes it hard to even feed myself, let alone be able to take care of a child. I am just one example of countless people who shouldn't have kids. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to have sex, it means we should be able to use safe sex to prevent ourselves from having kids.

A early stage fetus isn't a life and has no emotions, no feelings, no brain, it's a cluster of cells. You really think someone forced to carry a baby created out of rape is going to be ok? You really think they are going to be fine seeing a child who's going to have some resemblance to their rapist "father" is going to be dealing well with that? No, they are not going to be ok. You need to consider how the parent is going to have to deal with this situation and the long term effects something like this would leave on a woman. Being raped is a horrible thing, but being forced to live with a reminder of that rape is just cruel. I don't see how your situation relates to this, but given if they did abort, then you simply wouldn't exist. That's simply a fact, your life simply wouldn't exist. If my mother aborted me, then I wouldn't exist. There's really nothing more to that, there's no spirit/ghost.

In Japan the population is going due to an aging population dying off and a younger population not wanting to have kids. China is multiple issues with culture and politics. Regardless they aren't losing large portions of their population due to abortions and also you still aren't getting the point. The only literal way death can actually effect the population to a noticeable rate, would be if literally millions of people suddenly died all at once. There's countless people dying, yes, but not a massive amount to completely offset babies being born.
I do have a question though. What is better, a safe doctor's office where medical staff, clean tools, etc are available to provide a safe abortion or a back ally? Because abortions are always going to happen, just the location is going to change

Dude if they're raping a women they would wear a condom as to not get their semen all over the woman's panties/vag so they won't get caught

 

[FAST6191]

Abstinence=best birth control

Imo you should only have sex with the intent to make a child, but you know not everyone may agree with me.

So the bonding and social aspect which is well documented in humans and other animals is pointless (or such a base concern that it is obviated by a moral one)? Sex with a knowingly infertile or menopausal person of the opposite sex is essentially masturbation? Sex with the same sex is equally pointless? Sex while the woman pregnant is pointless? Is sex at times of a woman's cycle where pregnancy is rather unlikely to result a bad thing?

Equally a favourite thing in similar discussions is to look at the efficacy of the pill for women. Taken properly it is as good as it gets. Screw ups exist so the net effect over a population is somewhat less than that. Such logic applied to abstinence only... I suspect it would be less effective still.

 

[Hanafuda]

It is far from subjetive if there are a lot of lecture that points if the brain activity ends, life ends there and that also when brain activity starts, life starts there. I dont know how much hard that is to understand.

Electrical brain activity begins at about week 5. Your point is pointless.

 

[JellyPerson]

IMO abortion is legal murder

 

[dAVID_]

Having a pregnancy is not something you should be forced into, it's a very personal matter.
I think that abortions are perfectly fine as long as the fetus isn't really conscious.
And even so if we break down everything to its core, it come down to cells. Said cells , when broken down, are chemical reactions.
Would killing artificial intelligence then be ethic? The thing is, there is no right answer for this question, because the answer is based on morals, unlike mathematics, that follows a set of rules.
When you break down moral rules, you realize there is no way you can actually justify them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Electrical brain activity begins at about week 5. Your point is pointless.

"Your point is pointless". lol

 

[aykay55]

My opinion is that "freedom of abortion", or abortion because the parents just don't want a child, is allowed as long as the child is in the embryonic stage, the first trimester as it is called. Technically there is a time to say when the baby is a human life, which is once the embryo becomes a fetus. After that, abortion should be prohibited except for two reasons:
1. Harm to the mother
2. Harm to the child (not necessarily right at birth)
In other words, abortion should be illegal after the first trimester except in the two above cases.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Even in cases of rape.

 

[bi388]

I believe it is wrong to kill any sentient life without good reason. However, fetuses arent really sentient. They arent aware of their 'self'. I dont think species matters, so much as intelligence and sentience. A human is worth no more than any other intelligently species that might exist in the universe. So labeling the fetus as human means nothing to me. If its ok to kill most sentient animals according to most people, then i dont see why killing a fetus is wrong. The only logic i can follow for abortion being wrong is 1. if youre assuming there is a god and that he made humans inherently superior to all other beings in the universe or 2. if youre against killing all sentient life including all animals

 

[DeslotlCL]

Electrical brain activity begins at about week 5. Your point is pointless.

Then abort in week 4?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

The fact that some professors say life begins and ends with the brain is far from objective. No matter of consensus concerning a purely subjective topic will ever produce an objective fact.

Consider this - the bacterium has no brain whatsoever - yet it is living, yes?

So you can't say a human life is defined objectively.

I see your point, and I happen to agree. My opinion also is that human life starts with brain development. However - you must admit our opinions are opinions, and it ends at that. We can't pretend that the debate can be settled through reason alone.

Well i can certainly agree with you on that. The problem however, is that even both sides are opinions, but one side is deciding for the pregnant mother what she can and what she cant do with her body, and the other side is deciding for the supposed living child if it lives or not... So, in the end of the day, no body respect each other and both sides trash to each other because there cant be a conversation or mid-agreement to the problem.

 

[osm70]

Having a pregnancy is not something you should be forced into, it's a very personal matter.
I think that abortions are perfectly fine as long as the fetus isn't really conscious.
And even so if we break down everything to its core, it come down to cells. Said cells , when broken down, are chemical reactions.
Would killing artificial intelligence then be ethic? The thing is, there is no right answer for this question, because the answer is based on morals, unlike mathematics, that follows a set of rules.
When you break down moral rules, you realize there is no way you can actually justify them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


"Your point is pointless". lol

Define "intelligence". If the thing is "alive" or "sentient" (or it appears that way to us - because there's no way to actually know for sure (can you say for sure that you are "alive" or "sentient"?)) then killing it is wrong.

 

[bi388]

Define "intelligence". If the thing is "alive" or "sentient" (or it appears that way to us - because there's no way to actually know for sure (can you say for sure that you are "alive" or "sentient"?)) then killing it is wrong.

You say killing living sentient beings is wrong, then are you against killing animals (for any reason other than self defense)?

 

[osm70]

You say killing living sentient beings is wrong, then are you against killing animals (for any reason other than self defense)?

In a way... sort of.

Alright, let's take a look at possible reasons to kill animals:

1. For fun - yeah, that's terrible, don't do that

2. It's trying to kill me - justified, I would say

3. For non-meat products - Yeah, I really don't need my jacket to contain real animal skin... we have non-animal versions, just use those. Don't kill animals for that.

4. For food - Well, we need something to eat. You might say that I should go vegan instead, but there are some nutrients that you can't get from non-meat products... This point is debatable, but I guess we can all agree that this world is fucked up. (Besides, plants are "living" things too. You literally cannot survive without killing something.)

 

[The Catboy]

Dude if they're raping a women they would wear a condom as to not get their semen all over the woman's panties/vag so they won't get caught

If your age is right, then you've should have not had to a reason to put on a condom. I say this because there an extremely small amount of cases where a rapist wears a condom and this is because condoms are not easy to put on. There actually requires some effort and focus to put on condom on and 9 out of 10 times it always starts out upside-down and needs to be flipped. That all being said, most cases of rape are impulsive and a condom would take too much time and effort.

Abstinence=best birth control

Imo you should only have sex with the intent to make a child, but you know not everyone may agree with me.

I am just going to flat say that teaching abstinence doesn't work and states that require teaching it is proof of that. States that teach abstinence over proper safe sex education have far higher teenage pregnancies compared to states that do have proper health classes.

Okay, I have reminders of horrible shit that's happened to me, I have to live with it too. Being raped is a horrible thing, No one is disagreeing with you. Take the child at nine months(when born), and then the mother doesn't have to see the thing that reminds her of what happened to her.
My point is, That I was told I was going to have certain problems, and they suggested Abortion, so I wouldn't have to live with the problems, I don't have those problem. Though in your case, they will most likely be inherited, because you have it first hand. and it's dominate.

When is it okay to abort for you?


Even if it's possible life, it's still life?

You have literally no idea what you are going on about nor the long term psychological effects all of this would have on a person. It seems more like you are the one who's casually suggesting a woman carries a baby, something that will forever effect her body, for a man who raped her, just to appease your believes in life. Your ignorance is extremely harmful.
It doesn't matter what could have happened, your parents made the choice to accept whatever outcome they got. You are acting like your parents were being pressured into aborting you, when it was most likely a single question asked when they found some form possibly life threatening abnormality. Your parents accepted that you could have those problems and brought you into this world with hopefully the expectation of raising you despite the issues. Your example is example of a parent's choice, not a case against abortion. As for mine, the immune disorder only popped up late in my life and it turned out that my has signs of the same disorder, but not to the extreme that I have them. It's something that wasn't intentionally done, but since I am aware of the extreme stage that I have, then I've made the choice to not risk another life having it.
If a woman feels the need to do so and it's within the legal time frame, then it's ok. Their reason is none of my business and something I can only assume came as a last resort.
I noticed you missed my question, but which is better.
An abortion being held in a doctor's office with properly trained medical staff, clean tools, and other safe methods? Or a dirty motel/random home/back ally, and being preformed in an unclean environment by someone with little to no medical training? Because abortions are always going to happen regardless of what the law says, they will simply move to a different location though.

 

[x65943]

In a way... sort of.

Alright, let's take a look at possible reasons to kill animals:

1. For fun - yeah, that's terrible, don't do that

2. It's trying to kill me - justified, I would say

3. For non-meat products - Yeah, I really don't need my jacket to contain real animal skin... we have non-animal versions, just use those. Don't kill animals for that.

4. For food - Well, we need something to eat. You might say that I should go vegan instead, but there are some nutrients that you can't get from non-meat products... This point is debatable, but I guess we can all agree that this world is fucked up. (Besides, plants are "living" things too. You literally cannot survive without killing something.)

There are no nutrients that you can only get from meat products. Just to be clear on that point. There is no real debate there.

 

[osm70]

There are no nutrients that you can only get from meat products. Just to be clear on that point. There is no real debate there.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants

 

[x65943]

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants

Only one of those nutrients cannot be produced by the human body/taken from plants - Vitamin B12.

However B12 can be synthesized in a lab easily, with no animal death necessary. I would say this qualifies as a "non-meat product".

 

[bi388]

On your last point, plants aren't sentient like animals are so comparing it isn't accurate, and even if they were sentient, we feed 10x as much plant food to animals as we get back, so it would be the lesser evil to eat only 1/10 as much sentient plant as if we eat animals. I think killing is justified if you need to to survive (call me hobbesian in that regard) but I wouldn't call this a live or die situation for most people.

 

[osm70]

On your last point, plants aren't sentient like animals are so comparing it isn't accurate, and even if they were sentient, we feed 10x as much plant food to animals as we get back, so it would be the lesser evil to eat only 1/10 as much sentient plant as if we are animals. I think killing is justified if you need to to survive (call me hobbesian in that regard) but I wouldn't call this a live or die situation for most people.

Good point

 

[orangy57]

I think it should be their choice, when people abort a child the kids are still at a developmental point where they aren't actually able to think, so it's like removing a parasite i guess

 

[osm70]

There's also something else no one brought up yet.

Now keep in mind this is not my opinion and does not reflect what I think or how I feel.

Some people who are in a bad life situation (for example being extremely poor and not even having a place to live) might think that the (potential) child might be better off dead than living like that.


EDIT: In case it's not clear, I am not talking about killing said child after it is born. I meant aborting for that reason.

 

[Nerdtendo]

Unless the mother's life is in peril, I think all abortion is wrong. This includes babies from rape. Some will disagree, but just how it was wrong and unfair for the woman to be attacked, it is wrong and unfair to end someone's life who had nothing to do with the situation