How do you feel about abortion?

[Judas18]

I believe that a person has the right to their own body. As cold as it is a foetus is symbiotic, if a person decides that they do not wish to use their body as a vessel for life then that is their choice and their choice alone. No one should be forced to carry a baby if they do not wish to, though I do believe that it is a decision that should be thought through properly as it is a very drastic decision to make.

 

[The Catboy]

I told you people would sear there conscience or blind there eyes to the truth, those ''teachers" don't know what there talking about because they don't want to, read the word for yourself, seek the truth for yourself, and you will find it, "seek and you will find" everyone else is included in this too. Okay I'm really done now.

I've actually spent a good part of my life (about 16 years) studying, reading, and researching the Bible and other religious text. Part of my studies have included different religion's stances on abortion. It's worth noting that through out history the Catholic church used to have a very different stance and often saw it as something they didn't like, but weren't against. Only Pope Sixtus V was the first Pope to declare abortions to be murder and his successor later changed it back to no longer being murder. It really wasn't until the late 19th centenary did the Church start having an actual anti-abortion stance.
What I am getting at is that it only appears to be religious organizations pushing an anti-abortion stance and not the Bible. In fact someone has already posted several pro-abortion (and even pro-child killing) parts of the Bible. The Bible is even pro-murder, pro-rape, pro-slave, and so much more that is often overlooked. This actually causes a lot of contradictions when you consider a religious stances on most subjects. Effectively looking at the Bible, it's fine to kill a child for cursing at their parents, but it's not fine to have an abortion? Where does God draw the line on this subject? And even so God has committed literally millions of acts of murder and even pushed for murder to be preformed in God's name. So why is this acceptable, but abortion is too far? Using the Bible as an argument only opens the book to deeper scrutiny.

I heard some people say that reading the Bible is the fastest way of becoming an atheist.

An interesting note, the Bible is actually part of the reason why I am not a Catholic anymore. I am not an Atheist however and I do have a blog post about my believes.

 

[Whole lotta love]

Agreed with the second bit. For all the anti-abortion folks, I'd like to point you in the direction of Finland, where not only is abortion legal, but also totally free (socialized healthcare 'n all that). In spite of that (or even, many would say BECAUSE of that), abortion rates are incredibly low compared to the population, due to the fact that sex ed is actually competent and pregnancy centers also hand out contraceptives free of charge

All outlawing abortion would do is increase people who are desperate and seeking illegal operations that in some cases might even be life-saving

I only say abortion is bad because I don't think we should kill any animals. That said, human fetuses can only experience suffering in the third trimester (most abortions occur in the first and second) and the suffering humans experience from unwanted children is far greater than that experienced by a third trimester fetus.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

I heard some people say that reading the Bible is the fastest way of becoming an atheist.

On that same not, I have heard becoming a convicted felon or being faced with a terrible issue, like alcoholism or cancer, is the quickest way to become a christian.

 

[FAST6191]

On that same not, I have heard becoming a convicted felon or being faced with a terrible issue, like alcoholism or cancer, is the quickest way to become a christian.

For the former I am told it is Islam these days -- you get better food.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

For the former I am told it is Islam these days -- you get better food.

Thats just racist yo. I identify as a toaster and we dont make better food for anyone. We burn all yo bread.

/belligerence

 

[FAST6191]

Relevant


As I missed it last time/to make it vaguely on topic

People that choose an abortion should have their ovaries taken out/ testicles removed. They should fund wic.

That is a rather punitive approach to the world. Care to elaborate some?
Equally there is some evidence that would appear to say abortions don't result in fewer children, just a delay of them.
Also as we are an international discussion here you might not want to just leave it at an acronym
https://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/about-wic

The Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children - better known as the WIC Program - serves to safeguard the health of low-income pregnant, postpartum, and breastfeeding women, infants, and children up to age 5 who are at nutritional risk by providing nutritious foods to supplement diets, information on healthy eating including breastfeeding promotion and support, and referrals to health care.

 

[cmdwedge]

Anyone outside of the States who needs to understand how Trump won the election, read this thread. Fucking Seppos.

 

[Dvdxploitr]

I'm on the fence about it. If you don't wanna have a kid, then you have options. You can wear protection or you can not have sex. If you willingly have sex and get pregnant, then you shouldn't be able to get an abortion. If it's a case of rape, then I think it should be legal to get an abortion. Granted, it's not the babies fault that a woman gets raped and the baby cannot be given a chance at life. But the woman that is a victim of rape would already be traumatized by what happened to her and have to carry around a baby for 9 months and take care of the kid for years. What if she is addicted to drugs? Think she's going to stop using drugs after being raped and knocked up? Very little odds of that happening. So she's pregnant and still doing drugs which is going to harm the baby health-wise or kill the baby in the womb.

 

[FAST6191]

People keep saying "not having sex" like it is a viable option and I find it utterly ridiculous really, almost to the point of being dumbfounded. I shall spare a pondering of whether it is a legacy of somewhere that considers "abstinence only" worthy of being followed by education beyond this sentence, though much like my earlier comment on it being a regional issue... it lines up well.

With self fertilisation being so vanishingly rare, and I am not sure what the viability of sperm is for the dirty toilet seat concept but not terribly long, then obviously it works if your only end goal is don't get pregnant. For most people though there is a massive drive to have sex and it is a massive part of life/living as part of a society or having a relationship for most as well. To forgo it can have some rather unpleasant effects on a person's psyche (prisons, religious orders, other forms of isolation, in many cases the military, frontier work/mining and what have you all providing heaps of data on the matter) and said relationships. To suggest it as a viable course of action seems counter productive if you are going to consider the wellbeing of the person in question as part of that.
Do it or don't, that matters little from where I sit -- I would encourage people to eat right and exercise regardless but would fall back to the psychiatric side of things with a "is it causing distress to the person in question or those surrounding them" type approach that is the basis of that world. To suggest forgoing it for the general populous as some kind of moral or viable path for reasons just sounds like so much pseudo religious drivel and as easily dismissed.

 

[Navonod]

Anyone outside of the States who needs to understand how Trump won the election, read this thread. Fucking Seppos.

Lol. I've never been called a Seppo before. Got anymore good ones?

 

[bitjacker]

Sex is great. I have had lots of it. I have not busted a nut all over anyone's fallopian tubes, though. Punative? How so? A free surgery? Someone else's lack of self control should not be coming out of my paycheck. Have 1 kid. There are way too many humans around trashing the planet, fighting, and trolling the internet. I am all for protecting life, but shitting out 18 kids is fucking selfish! Immagrate to where you want, but dont leave other people to pick up your slack. If you are gonna have a kid, man the fuck up and love that kid. The full responsibility should rest on the parents. Poor people should try as hard as they can to get a higher wage, having a kid in that circumstance is really stupid and should be prevented. I would rather have a persons education paid for than fund the product of irresponsibility/ NEGLECT.
If you cant stand on your own 2 feet, you are lacking the proper dna to advance the human race, so dont reproduce.
I am not going to have kids because I do not make enough money to support them. I suck at math too.

 

[FAST6191]

Sex is great. I have had lots of it. I have not busted a nut all over anyone's fallopian tubes, though. Punative? How so? A free surgery? Someone else's lack of self control should not be coming out of my paycheck. Have 1 kid. There are way too many humans around trashing the planet, fighting, and trolling the internet. I am all for protecting life, but shitting out 18 kids is fucking selfish! Immagrate to where you want, but dont leave other people to pick up your slack. If you are gonna have a kid, man the fuck up and love that kid. The full responsibility should rest on the parents. Poor people should try as hard as they can to get a higher wage, having a kid in that circumstance is really stupid and should be prevented. I would rather have a persons education paid for than fund the product of irresponsibility/ NEGLECT.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If you cant stand on your own 2 feet, you are lacking the proper dna to advance the human race, so dont reproduce.

If you are denying someone the option to reproduce then that gets to be tricky under ethics, especially if that screw up which ends in an abortion comes in say their early 20s when they are still getting a career/education that you seem to so value but come a bit later when they have some resources and the reasonable expectation that they will be able to make more and it is a very different matter. The 18 kids part was not part of your original post or my example, I don't know if you were aiming for a strawman or what there. Never mind the parts on immigration and overpopulation.

Do you make your health insurance stop paying for some fat bastard's heart attack? What about a job known to be stressful (you seldom meet retired bank managers or retired fire fighters after all), do you ask your insurance to stop covering them?

Going further the bit about education being a preferable thing to fund over simple childcare or something would be the argument I would make in favour of such things -- more cheap and easy abortions leading to lower childcare handouts, people being better positioned to contribute to society and in turn freeing up some funds for research/education/something cool. Similarly why just poor people -- I am quite content for a person potentially set to make £100K a year not having their wings clipped and only being able to take a £50k a year position (average annual salary is some £27-28K) owing to spawning just as I am someone pulling down far less than that. In terms of pure money said £100K example is a far better investment.

 

[bennyman123abc]

Imo, it's the mother's decision. Beyond that, it doesn't affect me. The end. That's my 2 cents.

 

[bitjacker]

Ok forget i said 18. 2. 2 is too many. I dont care if you can afford it. Have 1 kid that you take care of. Ethics dont mean anything if you are expecting others to pick up your slack. Less government. Flat tax. Meaning a percentage (and not paying for stupid shit like a military or feeding able bodied people) the government needs to ratchet itself back and let free market take care of the rest. Unless you are in a wheelchair or something like that (this should be funded by churches like it used to be when the church was collecting taxes) you dont take free money. Have some backbone. Man the fuck up. There shouldn't be funds to free up if everyone pulled their own weight. Healthcare should be one's own responsibility. Are old people on social security an asset or a liability, especially considering the FACT i have paid in and the payout keeps getting reduced. In 20 years there is not going to be shit. I'm fucked. Funny joke. There is no straw man because this is all related. So have your bleeding heart. Thanks for what you contribute, but dont impose that on others who work hard to make ends meet. Abortion is murder.

 

[Taleweaver]

I'm on the fence about it. If you don't wanna have a kid, then you have options. You can wear protection or you can not have sex. If you willingly have sex and get pregnant, then you shouldn't be able to get an abortion. If it's a case of rape, then I think it should be legal to get an abortion. Granted, it's not the babies fault that a woman gets raped and the baby cannot be given a chance at life. But the woman that is a victim of rape would already be traumatized by what happened to her and have to carry around a baby for 9 months and take care of the kid for years. What if she is addicted to drugs? Think she's going to stop using drugs after being raped and knocked up? Very little odds of that happening. So she's pregnant and still doing drugs which is going to harm the baby health-wise or kill the baby in the womb.

Protection doesn't always work. I had a girlfriend who got pregnant because she was ill a week before that and her pills "didn't work"*, and I've had it that I came so much that it literally flowed out of the condom.


I'm not so sure why you bring up the drugs argument when you're pro-life. You're basically saying "yeah, women shouldn't get an abortion unless it was rape**", but at the same time admit they can just kill or mutilate their unborn kids in very different ways.


*mind you: this is her version of what happened. There's a long and terrible background story behind this, but I'd summarize it as "she wanted to trick me into paying her alimony for the rest of my life".
**it'll probably be a controversial opinion, but if that'll be the only legal reason, but I think women will just start calling consensual sex rape if they accidentally get pregnant. Do you really want to force women who aren't ready to have kids to choose to either ruin their partner's life or their own?

 

[DBlaze]

This thread turned out to be a train-wreck, as expected from discussions of "controversial" topics.
I honestly can't say i'm against it, but i'm also not entirely in favor of it.

It all depends on the circumstances of the entire situation and how far advanced the pregnancy is.
People who are absolutely against it, even in case of rape disgust me. No one should be forced to have a child that is the result of rape.
You'd rather have a child grow up being unwanted or brought up in a broken home by default, really?

And then there's the amount of teenagers that don't have the slightest clue it only takes once for pregnancy to happen. "we only did it once".
That's all it takes. Really.
Why are these people not better educated that doing that causes babies?

I understand that accidents happen, no protection is 100%, and in such cases I can't say i'd be against abortion either, if you do literally everything to prevent it and it happens either way, then I don't feel like they should be forced to keep it.
Then again for such cases there's the morning-after pill.

Speaking of which, what do you pro-life, anti-abortion people think of the morning-after pill anyway? Or that doesn't count in your book?

i say we start selective breeding, if you want a child you have to pass a test
i'm just kidding.

 

[FAST6191]

This thread turned out to be a train-wreck, as expected from discussions of "controversial" topics.

You call this a train wreck?
Everything seems fairly civil here, no mass deletions, no harsher moderator activity, there is a bit of back and forth and discussion. Fairly successful debate from where I sit.

 

[DBlaze]

You call this a train wreck?
Everything seems fairly civil here, no mass deletions, no harsher moderator activity, there is a bit of back and forth and discussion. Fairly successful debate from where I sit.

suppose train wreck was a bit much, but I meant more as in that there's a lot of politics and religion thrown into the mix in the back and forth, while the question was just a simple "how do you feel" about it

 

[FAST6191]

I would usually read "how do you feel" as an invitation to a debate, something which almost necessarily includes politics and ethics, which for some would then bring in religion. If not then feels matter far less than reals.