ROM Hack How do games detect flashcarts?

[HoTsHoT89]

So as most R4 users are still waiting for a patch for a certain racing game, it never dawned on me on how games with piracy protection could detect flashcarts.

Most of us have probably experienced various forms of protection, like 'traps' in certain parts of the game (Chrono Trigger DS), unable to save (GTA:CW), or even unable to boot completely. To the DS console, isn't a flashcart a normal game card to them? I'm certain those games have lines of codes to check something, but what, and how exactly?

As for bypassing the protection, we have cheats which is patched into the game ROM which allows the piracy check to be bypassed or circumvented. I have a rough idea on how it works, but it's definitely better to know more.

Answering these might require a degree of technicality but it would be very helpful if you guys could get down and dirty.

 

[Jakob95]

Most of the time threw the sav files.

 

[YayMii]

BTW, GTA: CW doesn't have anti-piracy. It just has a bigger save that wasn't compatible with flashcarts at the time.

 

[Normmatt]

BTW, GTA: CW doesn't have anti-piracy. It just has a bigger save that wasn't compatible with flashcarts at the time.

Yes it did, it used a standard size 64kb save. Stop spreading bullshit.

 

[HoTsHoT89]

BTW, GTA: CW doesn't have anti-piracy. It just has a bigger save that wasn't compatible with flashcarts at the time.

Yes it did, it used a standard size 64kb save. Stop spreading bullshit.

I did remember that GTA:CW's piracy protection was implemented at the save.

But that's not the point. What I'm really interested is how do games do checks to know if the DS is using a flashcart. I'm speculating checks are done in the DS memory after the game has been loaded in, but if the DS console reads the flashcart as though it was a normal game card, shouldn't there be no problems?

 

[rockstar99]

BTW, GTA: CW doesn't have anti-piracy. It just has a bigger save that wasn't compatible with flashcarts at the time.

Yes it did, it used a standard size 64kb save. Stop spreading bullshit.

sheesh... no need to be so rude to the guy

 

[Demonbart]

BTW, GTA: CW doesn't have anti-piracy. It just has a bigger save that wasn't compatible with flashcarts at the time.

Yes it did, it used a standard size 64kb save. Stop spreading bullshit.

I did remember that GTA:CW's piracy protection was implemented at the save.

But that's not the point. What I'm really interested is how do games do checks to know if the DS is using a flashcart. I'm speculating checks are done in the DS memory after the game has been loaded in, but if the DS console reads the flashcart as though it was a normal game card, shouldn't there be no problems?

AFAIK the cheat systems on flashcart use cheats in a way that's different from the actual Action Replay. Games detect this, and block the game. That's why clean mode on Supercard/Cyclo might help solve your problems, and it's also why R4 users are permanently fucked, since R4 doesn't have a clean mode, and there aren't any official firmware updates anymore.

 

[Overlord Nadrian]

BTW, GTA: CW doesn't have anti-piracy. It just has a bigger save that wasn't compatible with flashcarts at the time.

Yes it did, it used a standard size 64kb save. Stop spreading bullshit.

sheesh... no need to be so rude to the guy

He has a point though, a lot of people just post crap they don't know anything about and say it's true.

 

[Megaman0]

Still it's not like someone would say it like that if they were face to face. There's no need to be rude just because it's the Internet. Especially if he really believed that GTA: CW has a bigger save...

 

[CannonFoddr]

How on earth did we get onto whether GTA:CW got AP or not when the poor OP asked

How do games detect flashcarts?, and how do people fix them?

 

[metroid4life14]

I've actually wondered this as well. I always assumed it was something that happened through the dump process, but after reading these posts, I guess not

 

[HoTsHoT89]

BTW, GTA: CW doesn't have anti-piracy. It just has a bigger save that wasn't compatible with flashcarts at the time.

Yes it did, it used a standard size 64kb save. Stop spreading bullshit.

I did remember that GTA:CW's piracy protection was implemented at the save.

But that's not the point. What I'm really interested is how do games do checks to know if the DS is using a flashcart. I'm speculating checks are done in the DS memory after the game has been loaded in, but if the DS console reads the flashcart as though it was a normal game card, shouldn't there be no problems?

AFAIK the cheat systems on flashcart use cheats in a way that's different from the actual Action Replay. Games detect this, and block the game. That's why clean mode on Supercard/Cyclo might help solve your problems, and it's also why R4 users are permanently fucked, since R4 doesn't have a clean mode, and there aren't any official firmware updates anymore.

Aren't ROM dumps always 'clean' in a sense, that they are unaltered and as-is from the original game cart? Most users can't even play clean ROM dumps without encountering some kind of stopgap. Cheats or not, the piracy protection exists.

 

[choconado]

yeah wait, it CAN'T be in the cheats, because there's still lots of gamers that don't use them and still hit the AP wall. Maybe someone who has real firmware/patching programming experience can pipe up? Normmatt? You're clearly reading the thread, and I assume all that work on AKAIO would give you some sort of clue...
Where the hell does the AP stuff check?

 

[Normmatt]

BTW, GTA: CW doesn't have anti-piracy. It just has a bigger save that wasn't compatible with flashcarts at the time.

Yes it did, it used a standard size 64kb save. Stop spreading bullshit.

I did remember that GTA:CW's piracy protection was implemented at the save.

But that's not the point. What I'm really interested is how do games do checks to know if the DS is using a flashcart. I'm speculating checks are done in the DS memory after the game has been loaded in, but if the DS console reads the flashcart as though it was a normal game card, shouldn't there be no problems?

AFAIK the cheat systems on flashcart use cheats in a way that's different from the actual Action Replay. Games detect this, and block the game. That's why clean mode on Supercard/Cyclo might help solve your problems, and it's also why R4 users are permanently fucked, since R4 doesn't have a clean mode, and there aren't any official firmware updates anymore.

Wrong again!

They do reads below 8000h which on official games still be redirected to 8000h in the rom while on flashcarts it isnt redirected and as such its easy to see its a flashcart, its not a simple fix either though, as the checks use their own read card function which isn't patched and as such reads need to be quick which they aren't unless the routine is patched

 

[CrashmanX]

AFAIK the cheat systems on flashcart use cheats in a way that's different from the actual Action Replay. Games detect this, and block the game. That's why clean mode on Supercard/Cyclo might help solve your problems, and it's also why R4 users are permanently fucked, since R4 doesn't have a clean mode, and there aren't any official firmware updates anymore.

Uh, no? I've never heard of the Cheat System being the issue, if that were true people would just make a Cart w/o cheats. There are sometimes things on the flash cart itself that can give away what it is, other times its something completely different. Most games use similar AP but some games use different AP, it all depends.

 

[Deleted-236924]

To be fair, Anti-Piracy measures alerady existed in the Super NES era.
Just look at Earthbound.

Earthbound looked at sram space. If there was more space for sram than usual, the game would make a lot of enemies appear. This made the game unplayable.

Every game has a different Anti-Piracy system, though they all get cracked quite fast.

 

[stomp_442]

Why do the patches only work on certain flashcarts? Exapmle: I patched a certain racing game and it worked on one flashcart, but not on my other two flashcarts? I am running the latest firmware on all three flashcarts.

 

[Normmatt]

Why do the patches only work on certain flashcarts? Exapmle: I patched a certain racing game and it worked on one flashcart, but not on my other two flashcarts? I am running the latest firmware on all three flashcarts.

Because not all flashcarts patch the game in the same way. Not to mention some flashcarts just plain suck ass.

 

[YayMii]

*Post removed*
Just realized I was flaming. I removed it to avoid the banhammer

 

[CrashmanX]

To be fair, Anti-Piracy measures alerady existed in the Super NES era.
Just look at Earthbound.

Earthbound looked at sram space. If there was more space for sram than usual, the game would make a lot of enemies appear. This made the game unplayable.

Every game has a different Anti-Piracy system, though they all get cracked quite fast.

Odd, I heard that with Earthbound (or else it was Mother 1,2, or 3) that you could play the entire game until the end where right before the ending it game you a "THIS GAME WAS PIRATED" screen and deleted your save data.