Gaming Has Nintendo "won" the console wars?

[icegod]

I always was a gamer, from the early 90s on. First console I ever had was an Atari 2600. So I went through all the generation wars. I saw Sega peaking and burning, the rise of Playstation, Nintendo's odd path... But lately, I've been thinking. Isn't the console wars pretty much death, with Nintendo coming out as the winner?

Think about it. Currently, we have three big players in the console wars: Xbox series X, Playstation 5 and Switch.

- Xbox is pretty much death. Never really peaked. The fact that Microsoft is bringing exclusives to other consoles and PC, shows Microsoft is putting their money on Xbox Gamespass. I honestly doubt a new Xbox will be made. Could be wrong, but Xbox doesn't seem to be a priority anymore for Microsoft.

- Sony is selling a good amount of Playstation 5's, but they also learned that console exclusivity isn't bringing enough money anymore. Seeing how Sony is also porting most of their titles to PC. Same for third party developers, who are stepping away from console exclusivity. It isn't weird, seeing how game development cost has increased a lot in the last decade, so publishers are looking for maximum profits. It's also why they're slowly stopping the timed exclusive deals.
The big shift in perspective, is that people used to buy a Playstation to play exclusive games or get exclusive features. Now, people seem to get a Playstation as an alternative to pc, because it's cheaper. I have no doubt there will be a Playstation 6, but I feel the main focus will stay the same, a more affordable and simplistic way into gaming compared to pc.

- Compared that to Nintendo. They still have tons of exclusives, still offer an experience that's not just a pc alternative, and pretty much stay in line with what one would expect from a console.

What's all your take on it? Do you also feel the console wars have come to an end?

 

[Robert Newbie]

I have a similar life story, right down to the Atari 2600. The console wars remains a fluid experience, but I admit that I have no idea if it's me distancing myself from the modern industry or the industry itself becoming less "noisy" (actively competitive) than previous gens.

Microsoft peaked with the 360, it seems. If the OG Xbox and the 360 were the Genesis, everything after has been the 32X. Microsoft doesn't seem interested in making their Dreamcast.

Sony had a strong outing with the PS4, but the PS5 seems like the opposite. I think a part of it is making fewer games with more cinematic focus, like The Last of Us and New God of War. Ignoring older franchises with more character and variety, like Ape Escape, and failing to come up with new ones has caused Sony to fade. I think dimissing broader demographics is a mistake because it's the older audience that's more inclined to build a PC or even just buy a Steam Deck. Sony and Microsoft seem to understand this, like you said, since they've been offering PC ports.

Nintendo, on the other hand, has been capitalizing on this entire situation. Even without the handheld market, they've stayed afloat with good brand recognition, big releases, multiple strong IP's, and a loyal customerbase. I think the focus on Nintendo Directs, polished products, and exclusivity has paid off. That's why the Switch 2 is the "Switch 2." Nintendo wants to continue what they started without much deviation.

 

[notsu]

What's all your take on it? Do you also feel the console wars have come to an end?

Yes, the console wars are basically over for me. I'm probably in the minority here, but homebrew and physical media mean a *lot* to me.

I have considered a PS5 on several occasions, mostly because of discs being cheaper and thus more likely to have a complete version of a [big] game on physical media, but the lack of homebrew for new FW revisions kills it for me. That, and installing discs before you can play them sounds like a nightmare for someone who has [thankfully] never dealt with it.

Xbox is just trying to sell subscriptions and is a pain to port to, so it was never in the running. Microsoft's games have never appealed to me, so there's that. Same with Sony 1st party titles.

PC is good for a lot obscure titles and fan translations I want to play but the lack of physical media for most games is a big downside. No, I do not consider burned discs with installers as physical media. I'm sure no one is going to be pressing PC games any time soon either, so I'm probably not getting one any time soon. I already have a Win98 PC for all my retro gaming needs. And discs are pretty cheap for the titles I play.

Switch is the only current console that fulfills all of my requirements, and I can confidently say that it's the console I've had the most fun with playing and collecting for. Homebrew is a joy to use too. I love fucking around with game dumps and saves. It's kind of a waste of time but it's definitely fun.



From a more general point of view, too, the console wars seem to have ended. PC has definitely won in the "big boys/hardcore" segment and Nintendo in the "general audience" segment.

 

[Robert Newbie]

Yes, the console wars are basically over for me. I'm probably in the minority here, but homebrew and physical media mean a *lot* to me.

I have considered a PS5 on several occasions, mostly because of discs being cheaper and thus more likely to have a complete version of a [big] game on physical media, but the lack of homebrew for new FW revisions kills it for me. That, and installing discs before you can play them sounds like a nightmare for someone who has [thankfully] never dealt with it.

Xbox is just trying to sell subscriptions and is a pain to port to, so it was never in the running. Microsoft's games have never appealed to me, so there's that. Same with Sony 1st party titles.

PC is good for a lot obscure titles and fan translations I want to play but the lack of physical media for most games is a big downside. No, I do not consider burned discs with installers as physical media. I'm sure no one is going to be pressing PC games any time soon either, so I'm probably not getting one any time soon. I already have a Win98 PC for all my retro gaming needs. And discs are pretty cheap for the titles I play.

Switch is the only current console that fulfills all of my requirements, and I can confidently say that it's the console I've had the most fun with playing and collecting for. Homebrew is a joy to use too. I love fucking around with game dumps and saves. It's kind of a waste of time but it's definitely fun.



From a more general point of view, too, the console wars seem to have ended. PC has definitely won in the "big boys/hardcore" segment and Nintendo in the "general audience" segment.

I have been feeling that shift to PC. I think Steam did a great job of bringing new builders/enthusiasts in. I'm sure emulation brings in a huge number too. I think there was an article recently about another big milestone for the number of concurrent Steam players (40 million?). The audience is definitely there.

Maybe that's why Sony and Microsoft seem to be on auto-pilot, and their new consoles aren't making significant waves. Steam's discounts and massive library are a huge draw over a relatively limited console experience. Nintendo has managed to stay competitive through their IP's and general polish. It's understandable that they went with the "Switch 2" strategy and have quadrupled their efforts against emulation. (Day-one emulation compatibility for newly released games would get any corporate executive into an uproar.) At this rate, Nintendo just needs standout software to keep themselves from fading.

 

[icegod]

I actually looked up a few numbers.

Best selling Switch game, is Mario Kart 8 with just under 70 million sales.

Best selling Ps5 Game, is God of War with 15 million. Second place is Spiderman 2, with 11 million. Most games in their top 10, are under 4 million, and most barely get over a million.

I couldn't locate any numberd for Xbox.

But seeing how huge gaming is now, those numbers are far from good actually. Even N64 had a higher top 10, and sold way less units.

Steam was mentioned here, and it's true that made people shift to pc more. It made me stop pirating, seeing how incredible cheap most games are, especially gotten from keysites. It also made pc gaming a lot more accessible to the average person. Downside, however, is that people seem to game more superficial. I own over 400 Steam games, and only played a fraction of that. Maybe 15 over 20 hours. Back in the N64-Gamecube era and before, you bought a game, and made sure to play it, fun or not.

 

[urherenow]

I sure hope not. There is no innovation without competition. There is no need for competitive pricing, with no competition. We can almost see that with the switch 2, actually. It's little more than a Switch Pro. Bumped up the specs. Not much else. An extra button and some kind of IR on one of the controllers.

 

[AdenTheThird]

Nintendo's success comes primarily from their independence from other big names in the gaming field. It's what helped Donkey Kong stand out in a sea of bland shooter arcade games, what helped the Game Boy rocket to success despite being less powerful than almost everything else on the market at that time, and what helped the Wii outshine both the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.

Their success comes from their ideas, their first-party games, and their willingness to go in a completely different direction than the other guys, even if it doesn't always profit in the end.

The book Super Mario by Jeff Ryan explains this in fantastic detail, and I highly recommend the book if you haven't read it already. One of the best recounts of Nintendo's history through the Wii era in my opinion.

In short; Nintendo won by letting Microsoft and Sony beat each other to a pulp. While the Series X and PS5 were boasting about next-level playing power, Nintendo kept pushing the comparatively humble Switch and outsold them both combined. Now Xbox is changing it's entire brand identity, Sony's still trying to sell the idea of the PS5 for it's six exclusive games, and Nintendo's happy to keep innovating as they always have with the Switch 2.

Yes, I think Nintendo won the console wars. But, ironically, it was because they chose to not participate. Today Nintendo's reputation--and sales data--remain completely intact, which can't be said for either Microsoft or Sony. If that isn't victory, then I don't know what is.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

"The only way to win is by not playing"

 

[Jayro]

With all the PS5 and Xbox exclusives going to PC, there's really no reason to own the big 2 anymore, as long as you're patient for the PC release. So in that sense, Switch 1 and 2 definitely win in that regard, but then again... Switch (And eventually Switch 2) is easy to emulate on PC as well. So pick your battles I suppose.

 

[Robert Newbie]

I sure hope not. There is no innovation without competition. There is no need for competitive pricing, with no competition. We can almost see that with the switch 2, actually. It's little more than a Switch Pro. Bumped up the specs. Not much else. An extra button and some kind of IR on one of the controllers.

I think the Steam Deck may rise as a competitor, especially since it's functionally similar to the Switch. For some reason, I think Sony and Microsoft may stay in the console game while simultaneously not trying particularly hard. I think the divisions make just enough money to be viable, plus the overall boost to each company's respective image.

I actually looked up a few numbers.

Best selling Switch game, is Mario Kart 8 with just under 70 million sales.

Best selling Ps5 Game, is God of War with 15 million. Second place is Spiderman 2, with 11 million. Most games in their top 10, are under 4 million, and most barely get over a million.

I couldn't locate any numberd for Xbox.

But seeing how huge gaming is now, those numbers are far from good actually. Even N64 had a higher top 10, and sold way less units.

Steam was mentioned here, and it's true that made people shift to pc more. It made me stop pirating, seeing how incredible cheap most games are, especially gotten from keysites. It also made pc gaming a lot more accessible to the average person. Downside, however, is that people seem to game more superficial. I own over 400 Steam games, and only played a fraction of that. Maybe 15 over 20 hours. Back in the N64-Gamecube era and before, you bought a game, and made sure to play it, fun or not.

Kudos for doing the research. It's insane how much marketshare Sony and Microsoft have been leaving on the table by not actively competing. I think the concept of more superficial gaming is very interesting to explore. The rise of collectathon open world games, the focus on mini-games injected into the main game, cinematic experiences over raw gameplay, demographics changes, economic and cultural shifts, there are a ton of reasons why games aren't the intense fascination they were during the 6th gen and before.

 

[notsu]

Best selling Switch game, is Mario Kart 8 with just under 70 million sales.

Best selling Ps5 Game, is God of War with 15 million. Second place is Spiderman 2, with 11 million. Most games in their top 10, are under 4 million, and most barely get over a million.

70M units for a 10 year old game is crazy. No wonder everyone wants to get their grubby little paws on a piece of the Nintendo pie.

I think the Steam Deck may rise as a competitor, especially since it's functionally similar to the Switch.

I honestly don't see it happening. It's more expensive than the Switch, and not as user friendly owing to it being a Linux PC. They don't have the brand recognition of Nintendo or even Sony among the general audience.

 

[icegod]

Steam Deck is a great device, played mine for many hundreds of hours. But in the end, it is a linux pc, and not really nooby friendly. I've had a lot of games that needed work getting to run. Story of Seasons, Pioneers of Olive Town come to mind, and that's one of the games more casual players play.

Also, it's market is too small to ever be a real competitor. They sell about 2 million a year, which are great for a portable pc, but not for any stand alone console.


In the end, it's a shame the golden age of gaming seems in the past. While we see innovative indie titles, most big publishers stick with more safe options. Lots of people hate Nintendo, but we can be glad they're still around. I do hope they will keep on trying new things.

 

[AdenTheThird]

Steam Deck is a great device, played mine for many hundreds of hours. But in the end, it is a linux pc, and not really nooby friendly. I've had a lot of games that needed work getting to run. Story of Seasons, Pioneers of Olive Town come to mind, and that's one of the games more casual players play.

Also, it's market is too small to ever be a real competitor. They sell about 2 million a year, which are great for a portable pc, but not for any stand alone console.


In the end, it's a shame the golden age of gaming seems in the past. While we see innovative indie titles, most big publishers stick with more safe options. Lots of people hate Nintendo, but we can be glad they're still around. I do hope they will keep on trying new things.

Steam Deck fills the niche of people who like the Switch form factor but want more power and/or accessibility from it imo.

Which is valid, but a far cry from the family market Nintendo has a vice grip on.

 

[Robert Newbie]

Steam Deck is a great device, played mine for many hundreds of hours. But in the end, it is a linux pc, and not really nooby friendly. I've had a lot of games that needed work getting to run. Story of Seasons, Pioneers of Olive Town come to mind, and that's one of the games more casual players play.

Also, it's market is too small to ever be a real competitor. They sell about 2 million a year, which are great for a portable pc, but not for any stand alone console.


In the end, it's a shame the golden age of gaming seems in the past. While we see innovative indie titles, most big publishers stick with more safe options. Lots of people hate Nintendo, but we can be glad they're still around. I do hope they will keep on trying new things.

Interesting, I would have thought Steam Deck pulled in more numbers, especially since they've been discontinuing some units to make way for new models.

I do agree, we're out of that creative wild west of the good old days. Larger companies stick with safe genres that sell big. I miss all those strange ideas that got full-fledged games on the PS2. Fans look to indies to have more of a creative spark, it's just a question of which ones really connect with consumers.

 

[icegod]

Interesting, I would have thought Steam Deck pulled in more numbers, especially since they've been discontinuing some units to make way for new models.

I do agree, we're out of that creative wild west of the good old days. Larger companies stick with safe genres that sell big. I miss all those strange ideas that got full-fledged games on the PS2. Fans look to indies to have more of a creative spark, it's just a question of which ones really connect with consumers.

For a device of its kind, it was actually pretty good. The Asus Rog Ally only sold a fraction of that. But it can't really be compared, seeing how they're all devices in a sea of thousands other devices doing pretty much the same, such as Laptops, windows Tablets, desktops...

Best example of how the market changed, would be looking at Soccer games. N64/Ps2 era's we had Fifa, Pro Evolution, ISS, David Beckham Soccer, the Club Soccer games, This is Football, and dozen of others. How many soccer games made by big publishers are there now? Fifa FC, and the dead body of what once was PES (if that's still around, not sure). As far as I'm aware, that's it.

Game developers used to take risks, now they play safe. They stick to the same few genres that are easily made, and which they can push out to a broad audience.

 

[Technicmaster0]

I think that the switch 2 will have similar problems to the ps5. If not the switch 2, the switch 3 will have them for sure.
We've seen the costs and time requirements for game development explode. There are almost no current gen games because they take so long to develop and that has a negative impact on the perception of the consoles.
In this space, Nintendo has 2 advantages. First of all, many of their concepts are relatively simple for modern games and they have moderate development costs (2d Mario, Mario kart, pokemon). But with better graphics development costs and time will rise in this segment.
Secondly, Nintendo uses hardware underpowered in relation to the current gen. Switch games can't be as complex as ps5 games and that makes them much cheaper. But we've already seen with breath of the wild that the really large and complex games take a long time to be finished and this trend will increase in the future. We've barely seen new games on the switch. How do you expect game output will be for the switch 2? When the hardware is comparable to ps4 or ps5. I don't see them making more games in the future.

 

[MPRTwice]

Nintendo's success comes primarily from their independence from other big names in the gaming field. It's what helped Donkey Kong stand out in a sea of bland shooter arcade games, what helped the Game Boy rocket to success despite being less powerful than almost everything else on the market at that time, and what helped the Wii outshine both the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.

Their success comes from their ideas, their first-party games, and their willingness to go in a completely different direction than the other guys, even if it doesn't always profit in the end.

The book Super Mario by Jeff Ryan explains this in fantastic detail, and I highly recommend the book if you haven't read it already. One of the best recounts of Nintendo's history through the Wii era in my opinion.

In short; Nintendo won by letting Microsoft and Sony beat each other to a pulp. While the Series X and PS5 were boasting about next-level playing power, Nintendo kept pushing the comparatively humble Switch and outsold them both combined. Now Xbox is changing it's entire brand identity, Sony's still trying to sell the idea of the PS5 for it's six exclusive games, and Nintendo's happy to keep innovating as they always have with the Switch 2.

Yes, I think Nintendo won the console wars. But, ironically, it was because they chose to not participate. Today Nintendo's reputation--and sales data--remain completely intact, which can't be said for either Microsoft or Sony. If that isn't victory, then I don't know what is.

A summary of how that is implemented from a 1963 film:

 

[SeventhSon7]

an image from the forgotten console war

 

[CMDreamer]

Actually yes, without even being part of it.

 

[Ryccardo]

[...] Microsoft may stay in the console game while simultaneously not trying particularly hard. I think the divisions make just enough money to be viable, plus the overall boost to each company's respective image.

Interestingly, just a couple of days ago I've read a 2003 opinion by some guy called Alex, which I find plausible, claiming that the first Xbox (notoriously a loss leader, including the loss of the last real console war) was exactly for that:

Microsoft established a corporate goal of getting a consumer presence. They NEVER had one. People started getting MS computers at home so that they could work at home. As the game market evolved, enough people had Windows machines at home (work-at-home, parent does, etc.) that a consumer market evolved. But MS rightly realizes that AOL and others are gunning for them and things like Linux have a potential to eliminate the consumer market from them.

Ultimate TV, XBox, etc., they are all ways for MS to use it's cash (the shareholders money that is held by MS) to try to grab more markets. Look at MS's stock price... what would have happened if in 1997 they realized that they were an OS/Office suite maker, and stopped there.