Hacking games with nand saving

[luigi90210]

It is possible, especially if they allow us to run homebrew.



If you look it up, there is a study that shows that most people pirating a game, were probably not going to buy it anyway. (I am thinking it effects first party games a bit more then usual tho.)

no that reason is BS

here is the reason why that is BS

Not to go way off topic here but yes you are absolutely correct....we are living in an age of mass propaganda and people are largely lemmings. It is getting so bad that our freedoms and liberties are truly at risk because the politicians from both sides just use scare tactics and take away whatever rights they see fit and people are just like ho hum and let them. The stuff with N$A spying and the impending use of drones on US soil is really scarry stuff as we are pretty much goign to be a high tech police state and we the 'tax payer' are paying for it all. Thankfully people's distrust of the gov and media is at an all time highs, but when will that translate to action, political or otherwise.....I would be just fine if we had a 'french' style revolution sweep thru washington and just start over. The design of our republic and constition is nearly perfect, that is not the problem, the problem is ther pervision of it that has been happing for decades but really kicked into high gear after 9_11.

here is something funny i heard from someone once and i think you would find it just as funny as i do

"just let the government take care of us, they have our best interest in their mind because without us, they wouldnt have a job"-college liberal

honestly trusting the government to have our best interest in mind is like trusting that a crack addict will not use crack if lock in a room full of crack...

 

[Ericthegreat]

no that reason is BS

here is the reason why that is BS






here is something funny i heard from someone once and i think you would find it just as funny as i do

"just let the government take care of us, they have our best interest in their mind because without us, they wouldnt have a job"-college liberal

honestly trusting the government to have our best interest in mind is like trusting that a crack addict will not use crack if lock in a room full of crack...

Are you also one of those people who are against food stamps?

 

[cearp]

i doubt nintendo would even implement NAND saves at all, it would break too many features and too many people would lose their saved games when updating to newer 3ds systems and that would give nintendo more crap through the media than some save game hacker or piracy would ever do

well the thing is that they have implemented them, in at least animal crossing, so surely they could put it into every new game if they wanted to.
but yeah, since at 4.5, we have kernel access, hackers have the potential to do everything, right? so given enough time, and maybe enough financial incentive, i guess everything will be possible. i just hope it won't be how ps3 is, when if you missed fw 3.41, and later on 3.55, you are stuck with no found way to play backups

 

[Chaossaturn]

If a game has nand-saving does this mean you can't start a new game? what the diffrents between a normal game and nand game? (I thought it was something to do with nand game haveing game ID link to save?)

 

[Quicksilver88]

well the thing is that they have implemented them, in at least animal crossing, so surely they could put it into every new game if they wanted to.
but yeah, since at 4.5, we have kernel access, hackers have the potential to do everything, right? so given enough time, and maybe enough financial incentive, i guess everything will be possible. i just hope it won't be how ps3 is, when if you missed fw 3.41, and later on 3.55, you are stuck with no found way to play backups

But they won't put it into every game because their is a significant cost difference and the margins on catridge (or hardware) produced games is much tighter than on disc or digital published games. They used Nand on AC either because of a technical reason (like they needed more save space or faster read/write to the save space) or because of save ID tagging like you mentioned because they didn't want rampant cheating. I could see them doing it with Pokemon because of similiar reasons, but history says they won't do it with every game.

Also you are correct in that because gateway team has full kernel access they could work around just about anything given the time and development $$$. Previously they said they are working on an AC fix so lets hope they bring that out in the next round of firmware and then they will have the Nand problem solved. Truly once they get to where they can run unsigned code then things will really open up because then scene 'groups' can start modding roms and most problems can be overcome thru rom patching.

 

[cearp]

But they won't put it into every game because their is a significant cost difference and the margins on catridge (or hardware) produced games is much tighter than on disc or digital published games. They used Nand on AC either because of a technical reason (like they needed more save space or faster read/write to the save space) or because of save ID tagging like you mentioned because they didn't want rampant cheating. I could see them doing it with Pokemon because of similiar reasons, but history says they won't do it with every game.

Also you are correct in that because gateway team has full kernel access they could work around just about anything given the time and development $$$. Previously they said they are working on an AC fix so lets hope they bring that out in the next round of firmware and then they will have the Nand problem solved. Truly once they get to where they can run unsigned code then things will really open up because then scene 'groups' can start modding roms and most problems can be overcome thru rom patching.

oh it is a lot more expensive to use nand chips? ok then, that might be the case sure.
it will be interesting to see if and how nintendo fight back

at the moment roms have not be decrypted right? but maybe with the kernel access they have, they can decrypt them with the 3ds, that sounds plausible.

 

[luigi90210]

Are you also one of those people who are against food stamps?

people who truly need food stamps can not afford a luxury item like a gaming console, if you afford to own a game console, you are not poor, simple as that...

and if you are on food stamps and can afford to own a gaming console, you better pray someone will not report you to the government because food stamps and welfare are designed to help people who can NOT live without being homeless

government assistance is NOT for people who can afford to buy new items like a brand new 3ds, if you can allocate $200 to purchase a 3ds, you can afford to allocate some money to both pay for food and pay for games...

 

[Ericthegreat]

people who truly need food stamps can not afford a luxury item like a gaming console, if you afford to own a game console, you are not poor, simple as that...

and if you are on food stamps and can afford to own a gaming console, you better pray someone will not report you to the government because food stamps and welfare are designed to help people who can NOT live without being homeless

government assistance is NOT for people who can afford to buy new items like a brand new 3ds, if you can allocate $200 to purchase a 3ds, you can afford to allocate some money to both pay for food and pay for games...

So personally if the goverment offered you food stamps, you would say no? Alot (most?) would say "fuck yea" and have a bbq.

 

[UltraMew]

Hope no one can pirate two certain October-launching games...

 

[Quicksilver88]

people who truly need food stamps can not afford a luxury item like a gaming console, if you afford to own a game console, you are not poor, simple as that...

and if you are on food stamps and can afford to own a gaming console, you better pray someone will not report you to the government because food stamps and welfare are designed to help people who can NOT live without being homeless

government assistance is NOT for people who can afford to buy new items like a brand new 3ds, if you can allocate $200 to purchase a 3ds, you can afford to allocate some money to both pay for food and pay for games...

Well said....but as you are well aware of lots of people on subsidised housing, food stamps, welfare, ss disability are doing quite well in the US and there in lies our problems. Many of them have sweet rides, lcd tv, high speed internet, iphones, and xbox 360s. It is a big reason why so many people are not minding being 'poor' these days...because poor isn't painful like it used to be. Since Obama means tested entitlements (welfare, food stamps, medicaid,disablility) have now surpassed non means tested entiltments (social security and medicare) which are for seniors who have paid in and earned their benefits. It is upside down and it can't last forever but really the politicians from both parties have no interest in ending it because it keeps their particular constituents happy and keeps them in power.

Ericthegreat may have been joking but I think we have a lot of people in our society that do think like him and say hey if they are giving me something free why turn it down....To Eric I say hell yes I would turn it down, I would much rather have sucess and prosperity than a fricking hand out. The odds of getting out of the social system are about as bad as getting off the bottle if you are an alcoholic....so in a very real way these programs that are supposed to help people are really prisons that keep them from ever doing something better with their lives......look it up this is not a political statement it is just pure statistical fact.

 

[Chocolina]

I thought nand type saving was a type of save to prevent power-off exploits like duplication of commodities in games. I don't see it being used in most 3ds games.

 

[Quicksilver88]

I thought nand type saving was a type of save to prevent power-off exploits like duplication of commodities in games. I don't see it being used in most 3ds games.

Correct on both accounts.....but Nintendo may use it in Pokemon for the same reason, especially because it will have a big online component and Nintendo doesn't want cheaters ruining the fun for 'serious' players.

 

[Chocolina]

Correct on both accounts.....but Nintendo may use it in Pokemon for the same reason, especially because it will have a big online component and Nintendo doesn't want cheaters ruining the fun for 'serious' players.

I know Its a response to the OP who thinks Nintendo might default to a new save-type just because Animal Crossing has been like the 1st speed bump in piracy since Gateway.

 

[Quicksilver88]

I know Its a response to the OP who thinks Nintendo might default to a new save-type just because Animal Crossing has been like the 1st speed bump in piracy since Gateway.

Gotcha....but I do think Nintnendo will do whatever they can with Pokemon and Zelda as those are such major releases. Not sure if they will have time to implement much with Mario Golf as it has already likely gone to production. You put it exactly right though in that typically whatever they do is a speed bumb. I think the idea with forced firmware updates or AP stuff in the code is just to cause a little delay because they know most gamers are impulsive and if you can't play a pirated copy on day one you might just break down and buy it. In the end nothing they have done has really worked as I don't believe their was ever a game on DS or GBA that wouldn't work on a flash cart once the carts evolved to handle all their little tricks.

 

[luigi90210]

So personally if the goverment offered you food stamps, you would say no? Alot (most?) would say "fuck yea" and have a bbq.

ya i would say no because i dont need food stamps, and accepting them would be illegal(in fact you can serve up to 5 years in federal prison for falsifying welfare forms, and yes food stamps is a part of welfare)

Well said....but as you are well aware of lots of people on subsidised housing, food stamps, welfare, ss disability are doing quite well in the US and there in lies our problems. Many of them have sweet rides, lcd tv, high speed internet, iphones, and xbox 360s. It is a big reason why so many people are not minding being 'poor' these days...because poor isn't painful like it used to be. Since Obama means tested entitlements (welfare, food stamps, medicaid,disablility) have now surpassed non means tested entiltments (social security and medicare) which are for seniors who have paid in and earned their benefits. It is upside down and it can't last forever but really the politicians from both parties have no interest in ending it because it keeps their particular constituents happy and keeps them in power.

Ericthegreat may have been joking but I think we have a lot of people in our society that do think like him and say hey if they are giving me something free why turn it down....To Eric I say hell yes I would turn it down, I would much rather have sucess and prosperity than a fricking hand out. The odds of getting out of the social system are about as bad as getting off the bottle if you are an alcoholic....so in a very real way these programs that are supposed to help people are really prisons that keep them from ever doing something better with their lives......look it up this is not a political statement it is just pure statistical fact.

that is what i hate the most about our society, everyone wants handouts and no one wants to work for their own crap, dont get me wrong, i believe the government should assist people when they are going through a hard time(IE lost a job and are about to become homeless) like medical care, food, housing, ect. but people who dont need assistance should not be accepting assistance

If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom. -Dwight D Eisenhower

 

[migles]

sorry for answer maybe a bit old post

can someone explain how does nand save works? i love to learn tech stuff

 

[robo989]

sorry for answer maybe a bit old post

can someone explain how does nand save works? i love to learn tech stuff

It's just a type of flash ROM, think of it as the modern version of battery backed up saves on cartridges from the SNES/Genesis(Megadrive) days. Practical difference being that it doesn't need a battery to avoid being erased.

 

[migles]

It's just a type of flash ROM, think of it as the modern version of battery backed up saves on cartridges from the SNES/Genesis(Megadrive) days. Practical difference being that it doesn't need a battery to avoid being erased.

by rom you mean it only can be writed once? or is just like a flash or eeprom chip?

 

[tbgtbg]

sorry for answer maybe a bit old post

can someone explain how does nand save works? i love to learn tech stuff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#NAND_flash

 

[migles]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#NAND_flash

thank you sir, so after seeing this, it is just like all pokemon games right? but without the battery... i thought 3ds games were saved inside the cartridge (except the downloaded ones obviously)