ez 3 in 1

Discussion in 'EZ-Flash' started by natanelho, Apr 26, 2015.

  1. natanelho
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    natanelho GBAtemp Maniac

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    hallo! this is my first post, so im sorry if i placed it in the wrong place.

    i have nintento ds lite, and my frind has gba sp and 3dsxl.
    recently i heard about the "EZ 3 in 1" and the "EZ IV".
    1. wahts the diffrent between the NOR memory and the flash memory(the one that uses mini sd) ?
    2. is there something that uses NOR memory with at least 32 MB? i read somewhere that 3 in 1 has 16 MB(not Mib, i know the diffrence)
    3. if i will load a rom to the nor memory of the 3 in 1, will it be playable on GBA? will it save the gamesave? will it be able to use the link cable for multiplayer?
    4. the same question as in 3, about the EZ IV

    i need a flashcart compatible with ndsl and gba that can load at least the "pokemon emerald" thats 32 mb.
     
  2. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Generally the 3 in 1 is cheaper and kind of needs a DS/DS lite and a DS flash cart to manage it. You can get it to play a game on other GBA playing devices but only one game at a time. The EZ4 is a standalone flash cart.

    1) The 3 in 1 and EZ4 both have NOR and PSRAM memory.
    NOR is slow to write but keeps the data when it powered off. PSRAM is fast to write but loses the data when power is lost (saves are stored elsewhere in case you were worried).
    Different models of the EZ4 and 3 in 1 have different amounts of it. Generally though the ones you will find are 32 megabytes (256 megabit) or NOR and 16 megabytes (128 megabit) of PSRAM. GBA games went up to 32 megabytes. There are some models of 3 in 1 with 512Mbit of NOR but nobody really used it outside of a few beta kernels for the EZ5, the chip numbers for the new microSD EZ4 are also such that it might be 512 but it seems software locked. There is an EZ4 model called the ez4 lite deluxe that has 384Mbit (32+16 megabytes = 48 megabytes) of NOR and 256 megabit of PSRAM.

    2) Kind of answered in 1.

    3) Also answered earlier but yeah you can, if the save is patched to SRAM (which it should be by and is easy enough to sort otherwise) then it will save and link mode should work but you might have to disable reset and sleep patches if you applied any (link timing is a bit odd).

    4) The EZ4 is standalone so yeah, you might also have to disable reset and sleep patches though if you want link (you might not, just it has been observed in the past).

    Pokemon emerald is not a 256Mbit title, though some ROM hackers have pushed it up into that size range.
    I should also note that both the EZ4 and 3 in 1 both lack a real time clock, there are patches available that replicate much of the functionality and the pokemon games named for gems are some of the few games to use it. Afraid I have not really got a good option for real time clock sporting GBA flash carts right now, you might be able to find an old neoflash cart it and occasionally an older GBA era flash cart appears with it (and such things tend to command a decent price as well).
     
  3. natanelho
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    natanelho GBAtemp Maniac

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    thank you!
    but some of the things you said are not the same as what shoptemp says.
    heres what i mean:

    [​IMG]
    so why did you said it? i mean is this cloack not-working or something?

    I have some more questions:

    5>could I trade pokemons with my officical cartridge of firered with the link cable.(yes I know I can do it via backuping the saves and playing it on an emulator on pc)

    6>whats the diffrence between the official cartride to the same game loaded into EZ3in1 or the EZ IV?
    and can I use the EZ IV to link cable games? is there diffrence in the gameplay of games between playing it on official cart and the EZ flashes?

    7>can i use ndsl to write games to the EZ IV(without PC)?

    8>is there a diffrence between the EZ IV and the EZ 3in1? except for the fact that EZ IV is a standalone and that it can carry more than 1 game at a time. I mainly mean diffrences in gameplay and multiplayer via the cable.

    9>how each of them saves the game save? is this the same as the official carts?

    10>can I use the "GBA Backup Tool" with these cards?

    11>is there a version of EZ 3in1 with 256 Mb? I mean usable 256 Mb cause i dont care of space i dont get.

    12> what is the pros of each one of them?




    I just want to buy a cart that can run all the zelda and pokemon GBA games on GBA (each time at least 1) and that its rom will be changeable without pc(via NDSL), and it will give normal and full gameplay (including multiplayer)on the GBA and NDSL. please help me! sorry for the many questions I asked.
     
  4. migles

    migles Mei the sexiest bae

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    natanelho, i am gonna explain how ti works.

    when you start a game, in ez iv it will be copied either to PSRAM or NOR (depends which you choose)
    the internal clock battery, the website should call it button battery, to not be confused with real time clock.

    when you play a game and you create a save, it will be saved to SRAM (a memory for saves) however, SRAM like ram memory is erased once there is no power..
    therefore, when you turn off the gba\nds, the button battery keeps the save inside the SRAM. without the battery, the save would be gone.

    on ez 3 in 1, you copy the games to the card using a DS flashcart.

    when you turn on the gba again. the save will be copied to the SD card (in case of the ez iv)

    for the ez iv you need a micro sd card, and you put the games on the sd card.

    for the ez 3 in 1 you need a DS flashcart to copy the games to the ez 3 in 1 (you need to use the console)

    for use a gba backup tool you need a DS flashcart. gba backup tool is to make copies and save manage the real cartridges.

    none of the gba cards got RTC (real time clock)
    there were only a few of them, and now they don't exist anymore\are super rare to find...


    advantages of ez iv: it uses a micro sd card, can put 32 GB of games on the card. or use several micro sd cards.
    you dont need a DS flashcart for put the games, therefore if you just had a gba and not a ds, you could use it.
    this is the small list i come with, i dont know much about the ez 3 in 1, but i know the ez iv is good..
     
  5. natanelho
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    natanelho GBAtemp Maniac

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    migles

    does the official carts use sram memory for saving?
    I have ds flashcart(dstt). will it work with the 3in1? with the EZ4? I mean, will I be able to transfer ROMs from the DSTT to it with no pc?
    what the EZ4 uses NOR memory for? I mean, it has micro/mini SD in it...
    whats "button battery"? what is that used for?

    I very appreciate your help.
     
  6. migles

    migles Mei the sexiest bae

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    official carts use several diferent types of saving. some use SRAM (and have a coin battery) some use EEPROM, other use FLASH...
    depends on the game... but saving works on a flashcart, the game requires to be patched to match the flashcart type...

    ez4 uses NOR memory for games that don't fit on PSRAM (PSRAM is 16 MB in size, some games are 32 MB, which must be copied into NOR)
    but you can also copy any game (or 2 sometimes can fit 3) into NOR so you can quick boot the game.
    it has micro sd, but gba requires a fast access memory.. you put the games on the sd card, when you turn on the gba\nds the menu will appear to select the game, once you select, it will be copied to the PSRAM memory (it takes some seconds) you can press select key to copy them into the NOR (it takes minutes, but they stay on the NOR)

    there is the super card, which uses mini sd (or sd, i can't remember) it doesn't have NOR or psram.. it reads the games straight from the sd card, because of that, most games lag... that card is kinda bad..
    with ez iv, you got very high compatibility and there are no slowdowns...

    button battery, i just explained about it on previous post.
    the button battery (or coin cell battery, or internal clock battery) they are just diferent names for the same thing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random-access_memory
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_random-access_memory
    i am not gonna repeat it again. RAM (SRAM is a type of ram) requires to be always power on. if there is no electricity, the memory gets cleared. the button battery is there, so your pokemon save is not erased when you turn off your nds\gba.
    if you have a pokemon red blue or yellow real card. they got a battery inside, if the battery is discharged, your save will be gone forever. this same type of memory is present on theese flashcarts.
    as for pokemon real cartridges, i think they use eeprom, or flash. i am not sure, but IIRC the battery they have is just to keep the Real Time Clock running (pokemon firered and leafgreen, dont have a battery because they dont use a RAM based memory
     
  7. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    It does have 512Mbit of NOR but nothing uses it other than a couple of beta loaders for the EZ5. Making a multiple GBA ROM loader is not the easiest and with the 3 in 1 you also have the save issue -- if you are going to fill up the NOR then you also need to hold all the saves at the same time. The 2Mbit I think it was that the 3 in 1 uses is fine for any single GBA game, put two copies of a large flash save (like pokemon) on there

    There is no real time clock for pokemon to use with the 3 in 1 -- the GBA did not have one in hardware so it had to be added at cart level. Some flash carts (including the EZ2 and EZ3) added a real time clock chip to their carts, however PCB space, cost, increased battery drain.
    I am not sure why clock battery is used, I guess a lot of people call those type of batteries "watch batteries" and that might be a mistranslation at some level.

    With no clock to speak to the game gets upset. However people patched it so the clock advances when the game is played (some went faster but most you will find today do not), about the only thing this really troubles is berries for normal berries you wait 24 real hours but 24 hours of actual gameplay is a bit different.

    Yes you can trade with another GBA game, if you apply too many patches it can trouble the link code but it is usually just a matter of removing the patches. Theoretically it should all work fine but if you can test it before you turn up somewhere where you are going to struggle to fiddle with things then do so. If you are going to want to use pal park on a DS then you will need to patch the DS ROM (or dump your DS cart's save, run it with a patched ROM and export the save back).

    Can you use a DS to write to the EZ4 without a PC.... technically yes but don't do it the main tools out there have a nasty habit of bricking the cart. I have no idea what goes with the new microSD ez4 as I am not inclined to test mine. There is nothing special about EZ4client though - if 32 gigs of microSD is not enough for you (and as GBA games are usually 8 to 16 megabytes then that would be an impressive collection) then bring a USB drive with patched games already on it and copy them (and a save) across.

    Nope, all GBA carts that are not a supercard, supercard clone or some of the very first GBA flash carts will run everything as far or slow as it would have ran on the original cart. Multiplayer should be fine, about the only real difference for anything is as they use SRAM to save (and patch the games to use SRAM rather than the EEPROM, Flash, or other type of SRAM they originally used) then you are going to struggle to link up with a gamecube for things like pokemon stadium and the sonic chao adventure thing -- much like pokemon pal park for the DS games then you will need to alter the GC games and nobody has bothered to do that.

    10 was already taken (it is DS program), if instead you meant the DS ROM dumper (wood dumping tools or rudolphs) then originally you could but the SDHC one and modern loaders lack a DS mode to use those with. There is no easy way to dump GBA games using a GBA slot flash cart.

    11) Yeah the very first ones are 256Mbit of NOR, 128 of PSRAM. When the 256 NOR chip dried up the EZTeam moved to 512 but nobody uses the extra 256 save for that old beta loader on the EZ5 which I already mentioned.

    12)
    3 in 1
    Cheaper
    Possibly easier to use thanks to being managed from a DS cart, not the the EZ4 is hard to use of course.
    Can easily fake a game for the purposes of the DS GBA slot reads (things like have a GBA advance wars in and get a bonus on DS advance wars), save for pokemon pal park which needs you to patch the DS ROM http://filetrip.net/nds-downloads/rom-hacks/download-pokepatch-4-2-f27240.html

    EZ4
    Standalone flash cart. The 3 in 1 really needs a DS to work well, you can write a single ROM to the NOR and have it boot in a GBA but it is not my idea of a good time.
    External memory is cheap and easy to replace.


    Cons.
    The 3 in 1 has a less than great battery which you might have to replace.
    The EZ4 is more expensive. You can not easily fake a GBA cart for DS thing I mentioned above, though PAL park should work.


    Second post.
    Older games used SRAM, newer ones technically use something like it which does not need a battery.
    Anything that has a DLDI patch can use rudolph's exp loader to manage the 3 in 1 -- the EZTeam released the source code/access libraries to the cart so that could happen.

    GBA games need fast memory to run (it is why the supercard GBA slot stuff is not great), NAND memory (like that in SD cards) is not fast enough to run GBA games directly from it. The two main types of fast enough memory in the GBA era were PSRAM and NOR.
    GBA games went up to 256Mbit, the EZ4 main model only had 128Mbit of PSRAM so it also has NOR for those few games above 128Mbit. You can also use the NOR to save having to load games into the PSRAM. You manage all this on the EZ4 itself.
    NOR memory will hold the data until you delete it.

    I think we covered the battery stuff earlier. That said button cell = watch battery = coin cell = סוללת כפתור if my dictionary is correct. It is used to hold saves while the GBA flash cart is not in a powered GBA, when you next power the EZ4 it is written back to the microSD card, whatever you manage a 3 in 1 with should do the same or provide you the option to do it.

    Anyway I am repeating myself and what migles said.
     
  8. natanelho
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    natanelho GBAtemp Maniac

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    lol dont try to translate to hebrew cause no online dictionary is capable of translating to it without making any mistake......
    thanks! I almost understand everything. sorry for my not-so-well english.

    last thing i didnt understood:
    you all say that 3in1 has bad battery, and that it uses "button battery", while you didnt said a word about the EZ4. what battery it has? is it working well?
     
  9. migles

    migles Mei the sexiest bae

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    its almost the same battery, but the ez4 one lasts longer..
    but it doesn't matter since they only need to replaced after years..
    unless you replace them with a very cheap\low quality one, they will last lots of years...

    your pokemon games got the same battery.. (but they are used for a clock, not save)
     
  10. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    I do try image searches when I use dictionaries and it looked like what I wanted, and the general search linked up a bunch of electronics sites so I went with it. No machine translation around here.

    The original battery from my launch EZ4 is still going strong, newer versions switched from a rechargeable to a non rechargeable and the even newer microSD model changed again ( http://gbatemp.net/threads/new-ez4-sdhc-in-house-at-gbatemp.381182/#post-5333375 has chip and whatever listings). It has only been a few months though so obviously I can not comment on the few years thing. It should be fine though and if you can solder or know someone that can then it is a simple enough fix, the harder part is usually finding a battery but that is not so bad either.
    The DS lite sized 3 in 1s used smaller batteries that did not quite stand the test of time as well and we have seen people have to replace them.
    Most flash carts use similar batteries -- the small round ones you find it watches, calculators, car key fobs/remote locks, inside computers for the BIOS memory..... Obviously you want to replace the same size with the same size and same chemistry but that is the sort of battery used.
     
  11. migles

    migles Mei the sexiest bae

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    wait D:
    the new ones got rechargeable batteries? how that works? the nds\gba recharges them while playing?
    how do i know if mine is rechargeable? (what is the code i should look in the cell?)
     
  12. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    No, as far as I am aware it is only the EZ1 through launch/early EZ4s that have rechargeable batteries. Later EZ4s (including the "2013" batch and the microSD version) and the 3 in 1 moved to plain old use once things, however as SRAM does not take much power to hold the data once written it should still last for some years.

    If you do want to know though then the battery will have some writing on it. Something like VL2020

    2020 is standard numbering for this style of battery ( http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/027/615/532/532615027_672.jpg is not the best but gives a rough idea what goes). The letters vary with the manufacturer, in this case the VL is Panasonic's designation for Vanadium pentoxide. http://na.industrial.panasonic.com/products/batteries/rechargeable-batteries/rechargeable-coin
     
  13. natanelho
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    natanelho GBAtemp Maniac

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    FAST6191 even though you copied it from a hebrew site, it still sounds very funny in hebrew("solelat kaftor")
    is there some EZ IV with micro sdhc compatibility and rechargable battery with a normal price? cause im kinda in the "environment saver" thing.

    why should i need to solder? isnt it one of the easy removing batteries thing?
     
  14. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Given the only people that made the EZ4 made them without the rechargeable batteries for these last batches then not unless you find one that someone has refitted (and adapted) for use with it, so no, no you will not be able to find one.

    There were some PCB shots linked in the gallery for the "in house/first impressions" thing
    http://filetrip.net/gallery?FD7M498kBq

    There was a model/line of GBA flash carts with easily swapped batteries but the concept did not catch on. Afraid you will have to be a whale hugger in some other way.
     
  15. migles

    migles Mei the sexiest bae

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    the batteries last years.

    you will not need to change batteries in years.

    fast got an ez4 from the first day, and his battery is still working

    (just trying to keep things simple for translator)
     
  16. natanelho
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    natanelho GBAtemp Maniac

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    im not using any translater... man ur insulting me
    BTW how does DSTT and other DS flashcarts work? the same way as the EZ IV? copying the game to nor or something and running it?
     
  17. migles

    migles Mei the sexiest bae

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    ds games use a slower type of memory... they are diferent... they run directly from the sd card (through some logic of course...)

    anywho, you are the one who mentioned a translator.
    and said
    if i am trying to keep it easy for your reading, i am the one being insulted. show some gratitute.
    if this is an insult, good bye then.