I just wish to bring up a point. Due to Nintendo's unprecedented and unexpected success with both the Wii and the DS, all developers are willing to put there money on the fact that Nintendo is going to hit it out the park again.
Think about how well the DS went initially when very few developers wished to put major resources into it. The DS still sold amazingly well and with a extremely strong amount of software in/near the launch of the console, the 3DS is looking to do the same.
Launch titles if you include gimmicky third party titles
, if I remember correctly the DS had a little problems with the games it coming out with,many were movie tie ins just to make a quick buck and nothing really started off, the PSP was more promising since it had an appealing library of launch titles. Then the DS lite and square enix came into play, around the time the Gameboy died, everyone with a gameboy knew now that the next handheld was the DS and not a Gameboy. Then we see the Gameboy titles moving to DS, the pokemon company announced trozei, ranger, a mystery dungeon series, then came the big news of Pokemon Diamond and Pearl.
What situation the DS was in first is completely different to what the 3DS will be. We know how successful the DS brand is now, before we didn't know, we thought that the GB series would continue.
I doubt any of you went to E3. I doubt any of you even got within 10 ft of a 3DS. But we're all making assumptions it's great based on game trailers, what games are coming to the 3DS, and nothing more but either controlled released footage by Nintendo of the 3DS or leaked cam footage that, if anything, indefinite. Critic impressions are there but critic impressions are also just as positive or negative as their bank accounts are and the deposits they get from big business video game companies. There's also of course the novelty factor. Get any new gizmo that isn't a hunk of shit and you'll think it's awesome. But given a few weeks the novelty wears off and you really have to see the device for what it really is. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't judge it until you have had it in your hands for a fair amount of time and if you can judge it with an unbiased mind.
The thing about impressions- of what may now be hundreds of impressions i've seen for the system, i've yet to see a single negative impression about the system from those who HAVE tried the system. Negative being someone who has come away disliking the thing more than they like it. I'm not saying there aren't any reviewers that are paid off, but they can't all be. And i think you're over-inflating the amount that are. Some major media sites are probably paid off, but smaller blogs are very unlikely to be paid off.
I'm a fan of devil's advocate articles, but there just doesn't seem much purpose or reasoning behind this one. Especially when you're making assumptions based on things we don't know. We have plenty of evidence that the system will be good, but there's none so far that outright says it's going to suck entirely.
Although I'm still very excited about the 3DS. I totally agree with you.
But just look at the promising titles Nintendo is already announcing for the 3DS, besides the 3D screen, 3D cam and 3D Movies.
I know you noted that, but still.
This indeed should play a bigger part than the 3D effect in our mind through paper.
But I truly believe the games will be ok, and enough promising software will come.
I just wish to bring up a point. Due to Nintendo's unprecedented and unexpected success with both the Wii and the DS, all developers are willing to put there money on the fact that Nintendo is going to hit it out the park again.
Think about how well the DS went initially when very few developers wished to put major resources into it. The DS still sold amazingly well and with a extremely strong amount of software in/near the launch of the console, the 3DS is looking to do the same.
Launch titles if you include gimmicky third party titles
, if I remember correctly the DS had a little problems with the games it coming out with,many were movie tie ins just to make a quick buck and nothing really started off, the PSP was more promising since it had an appealing library of launch titles. Then the DS lite and square enix came into play, around the time the Gameboy died, everyone with a gameboy knew now that the next handheld was the DS and not a Gameboy. Then we see the Gameboy titles moving to DS, the pokemon company announced trozei, ranger, a mystery dungeon series, then came the big news of Pokemon Diamond and Pearl.
What situation the DS was in first is completely different to what the 3DS will be. We know how successful the DS brand is now, before we didn't know, we thought that the GB series would continue.
I just wish to bring up a point. Due to Nintendo's unprecedented and unexpected success with both the Wii and the DS, all developers are willing to put there money on the fact that Nintendo is going to hit it out the park again.
Think about how well the DS went initially when very few developers wished to put major resources into it. The DS still sold amazingly well and with a extremely strong amount of software in/near the launch of the console, the 3DS is looking to do the same.
Launch titles if you include gimmicky third party titles
, if I remember correctly the DS had a little problems with the games it coming out with,many were movie tie ins just to make a quick buck and nothing really started off, the PSP was more promising since it had an appealing library of launch titles. Then the DS lite and square enix came into play, around the time the Gameboy died, everyone with a gameboy knew now that the next handheld was the DS and not a Gameboy. Then we see the Gameboy titles moving to DS, the pokemon company announced trozei, ranger, a mystery dungeon series, then came the big news of Pokemon Diamond and Pearl.
What situation the DS was in first is completely different to what the 3DS will be. We know how successful the DS brand is now, before we didn't know, we thought that the GB series would continue.
you sort of did, but the same thing won't happen to the 3DS, since developers have had DS experience they cane make the 3DS a success instantly. Because this time the 3DS is well supported, powerful and easy to port and create games for.
...the 3DS is not the multimedia device, soon enough the iPod/iPhone will pretty much own the handheld device market(bear in mind not the handheld gaming market), because it's small, thin, has multiple features, and has some great games...
Good point, good point. A major selling point of the PSP, and more notably, the iPhone/iPod line, is the ability to do lots and lots of stuff. The DS was basically strictly a gaming system, save for little social experiments like Pictochat (which was more novelty than anything in retrospect)... Though Ninty might've gotten away with this in the past, I don't know how well they'll fare this time around, a time where "smart" devices rule. Nintendo obviously realized this when they outed the DSi, which took pictures, played music and supported downloadable content. Nintendo might just be trying to take that approach one step further with the 3DS, considering the patents they've filed a while ago. They include things names like DS Sound, DSMovie, DSMessage, DSMusic, and DSAlbum, which may all hint that the 3DS is really going to step it up in terms of functionality.
The DS was a developer system. If Nintendo manage to make the 3DS easy to develop games for, then, wahey. But no-one has ever developed a natively 3D game for a handheld, so I wonder how it will fare.
...the 3DS is not the multimedia device, soon enough the iPod/iPhone will pretty much own the handheld device market(bear in mind not the handheld gaming market), because it's small, thin, has multiple features, and has some great games...
Good point, good point. A major selling point of the PSP, and more notably, the iPhone/iPod line, is the ability to do lots and lots of stuff. The DS was basically strictly a gaming system, save for little social experiments like Pictochat (which was more novelty than anything in retrospect)... Though Ninty might've gotten away with this in the past, I don't know how well they'll fare this time around, a time where "smart" devices rule. Nintendo obviously realized this when they outed the DSi, which took pictures, played music and supported downloadable content. Nintendo might just be trying to take that approach one step further with the 3DS, considering the patents they've filed a while ago. They include things names like DS Sound, DSMovie, DSMessage, DSMusic, and DSAlbum, which may all hint that the 3DS is really going to step it up in terms of functionality.
Seeing as those are quite great examples and well it's Nintendo's choice in what they want to do, they just need to play the right cards. Remember, as consumers we should expect more, not just a rehash of the previous model. A complete upgrade is what should be necessary. Now we have to think optimistically, is a 3D screen and better graphics the only improvement they're going to offer? Of course not but this is what we need to think like.
Also I saw the trademark DS Name Card, something related to the online service? Or it's possible DSi could get a firmware upgrade.
I just wish to bring up a point. Due to Nintendo's unprecedented and unexpected success with both the Wii and the DS, all developers are willing to put there money on the fact that Nintendo is going to hit it out the park again.
Think about how well the DS went initially when very few developers wished to put major resources into it. The DS still sold amazingly well and with a extremely strong amount of software in/near the launch of the console, the 3DS is looking to do the same.
Launch titles if you include gimmicky third party titles
, if I remember correctly the DS had a little problems with the games it coming out with,many were movie tie ins just to make a quick buck and nothing really started off, the PSP was more promising since it had an appealing library of launch titles. Then the DS lite and square enix came into play, around the time the Gameboy died, everyone with a gameboy knew now that the next handheld was the DS and not a Gameboy. Then we see the Gameboy titles moving to DS, the pokemon company announced trozei, ranger, a mystery dungeon series, then came the big news of Pokemon Diamond and Pearl.
What situation the DS was in first is completely different to what the 3DS will be. We know how successful the DS brand is now, before we didn't know, we thought that the GB series would continue.
you sort of did, but the same thing won't happen to the 3DS, since developers have had DS experience they cane make the 3DS a success instantly. Because this time the 3DS is well supported, powerful and easy to port and create games for.
Ahhh. Now i can see where you got confused. I should have added in some extra stuff in to explain myself. I meant to say that "The DS still sold amazingly well with a limited library, and with a extremely strong amount of software in/near the launch of the console the 3DS is looking to do the same."
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway, the 3DS was finally made into a public extravaganza in E3. It was showed up, games were announced, trailers were made, and Miyamoto made probably the best face at the Kinect booth. It was met with great reception from fans and critics alike. Mostly the fans. With people hunting through their couch cushions for those few extra cents to save up for the 3DS, many people failed to realize that the 3DS may not be what we all think it's cracked up to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First things first. Before E3 came and went, mostly everyone was abuzz over the "revolutionary" motion-control devices Sony and Microsoft were unveiling. Granted, everyone knew of the 3DS, but they didn't know exactly what the 3DS was, or it's projected launch titles. Nintendo went as under the radar as possible and basically showed people that real revolutions were possible even at the hand held gaming scene, and frankly, if i were a critic/video game journalist, etc. I'd much rather be reporting about something we haven't seen before rather than"rip-offs" of various degrees. 3D without glasses on a machine you can hold in the palm of your hand, and this technology shown before the first 3D-capable TVs or consoles was something to write home about.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On paper the 3DS looks great. Awesome graphics, 3D without glasses, an analog stick, touch controls, and a whole lot of other stuff. But yet again, most things look great on paper. I'll use the game COP: The Recruit as an example. COP has...
- A 3D open world that runs at smooth framerates.
- A variety of side quests and tasks to do
- Shoot guns, drive cars, and do many other things in a variety of missions
- Touch based side tasks and integrated PDA usage with the touch screen.
In real life, if you played the game, you'll see...
- Broken physics and clunky car controls
- Horrific difficulty curve
- Repetitive missions
- Boring story
- Jumbled and overcomplicated PDA
- Useless touchscreen usage at times<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sadly, COP: The Recruit isn't the best metaphorical microcosm of video game advances you'll ever find. The problem with that game (whether it relates to the 3DS or not) is that it tried to one-up the GTA iteration out on the same platform by trying (and failing i must agree) to do open-ended gameplay in an over-the-shoulder perspective, shying away from the proven First-Person POV that countless greater games on the DS used (in fact, the first "game" metroid prime: first hunt was in First-Person). The 3DS, apart from keeping the innovations of it's predecessors, has boldly stepped up to take a new 3rd dimension by storm.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But first, if we're talking about games I also should bring up the 3DS announced library of games. Side note, if this section seems out of place it is, I typed the whole thing then realized I needed this so I threw it in there. The edit though was just to add this note about this section though. Anyway, the library does look impressive. Both lots of fun casual games and fun hardcore games. But that being said, just because something is announced doesn't mean it's an instant win. Like I said in COP, looks on paper can be deceiving. And we still don't have a lot of proper info. Trailers are, as we know, gussied up to look good. It takes the best parts of a game and sticks them into a small minute-long trailer. For all we know there can be 30 seconds of awesomeness in a game but hours of shit. Like Kid Icarus showed off some impressive looking stuff in its 3DS trailer, but a lot of it was animated video and the gameplay parts were still a little misleading. Trailers also don't show controls schemes often, let alone if they work, and they also don't show the low points of the game. Resident Evil Revelations didn't even have gameplay. It was simply a video you could fiddle around with. Metal Gear Solid: The Naked Sample, as much as I hate to say it, was just a pretty looking tech demo. Most things are simply tech demos. Some stuff didn't even get that far and just got screenies, which show even less. A picture means a thousand words but it also means at least a hundred questions. And a good amount of games didn't even get screenies but were simply announced. Nothing more, nothing less. And if you look for 3DS games that were announced with extensive info you'll find that list very, very small.
I doubt any of you went to E3. I doubt any of you even got within 10 ft of a 3DS. But we're all making assumptions it's great based on game trailers, what games are coming to the 3DS, and nothing more but either controlled released footage by Nintendo of the 3DS or leaked cam footage that, if anything, indefinite. Critic impressions are there but critic impressions are also just as positive or negative as their bank accounts are and the deposits they get from big business video game companies. There's also of course the novelty factor. Get any new gizmo that isn't a hunk of shit and you'll think it's awesome. But given a few weeks the novelty wears off and you really have to see the device for what it really is. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't judge it until you have had it in your hands for a fair amount of time and if you can judge it with an unbiased mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, as I have said above, COP: The Recruit isn't a good metaphorical microcosm of video game advances. For one, Nintendo themselves didn't make it, it didn't make particularly good use of the advantages it's platform had to offer, and frankly, it was a game with no fanfare, no franchise support, and there was little consequence if it failed when they released it (by 2009, when the game was released, the DS already had at least half a dozen games that sold tons for months on end).
Now onto the announced titles and their significance. Frankly, it amazes me that when Sony debuts their "rubber ducky" tech demos just to show off their overpriced graphics, everyone claps their ears off for a tech demo. Nintendo is giving us gamers a preview of what we can expect from their new handheld, in the form of game trailers. Sure, there was little actual gameplay, but then again, the only addition the 3DS has that changes the gameplay is the analog, uh, stick (???) (also, the hardware ugrades such as RAM doesn't immediately equate to better gameplay right on release day, because developers would have to slowly ease themselves with the extra processing power) so mostly it's gonna be an interface of button controls, analog controls, touch controls or maybe even mic controls (Kojima is developing a title, and that guy just has these weird ideas, so you never know for sure). I for one would never doubt Nintendo when it comes to the flagship titles they made, nurtured, developed and ultimately, grew along with. Even the mostly forgotten starfy (a game that I admittedly have never heard of before, having grown up in the pokemon generation) got a new lease on life on the DS, and they didn't make a half-bad product out of that. So i say, bring on Kid Icarus, bring on MGS, bring on Resi Evil. I'll judge them when they get here in a playable form, not the tech demos used to show off the graphical prowess in the platform they are made for. Admittedly I have never been within a thousand miles of E3 ever (here in the Philippines, that's like a myth for our small but highly-dedicated gamer community) but I, for one, will never doubt the media and the people who were there who aren't just looking around for their next article's topic, but also enjoy games like we do. I think it highly unfair to level unjust accusations at them, especially given the fact that if they weren't around, 90% of the gaming population would be left in the dark waiting for any scraps of information our more elitist counterparts might give us.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The 3DS also, at this point, lacks competition. There's nothing to compare it to. There's no PSP2 yet and the only other thing is probably the iPhone 4, but that's still borderline between a personal media device and a video game console. So it'll look amazing since it has no competition. If I make a machine that there's no market competition for then it'll look awesome since it doesn't have a comparison. Comparing the 3DS to anything at this point is like comparing the PS3 and the PS2 and seeing which one has better tech.
Speaking of the PSP2, who knows how that'll be? First off, don't say the PSP was a bad system. It wasn't. It had good games, good functionality, and it was an overall satisfying console in general and a worthy product for Sony to have in the handheld market. I'd say the DS is better myself but the PSP definitely had an edge over the DS in terms of graphics, functionality, and that analog nub made a huge difference. The PSP2 for all we know could bring a lot to the table. 3DS graphics look good but what is Sony tops them? That'll be amazing looking. What if the PSP2 gets a great starting library. I mean Sony does have a largely impressive library at its fingers, putting some of their big ones onto the PSP2 development schedule can really turn the tide. And what if it brings another analog stick or nub? That's dual analog and it's been a standard for consoles for a bit now (and it works well too). Maybe it'll have a touchscreen too. Oh, and going off on a small rant here, pointing fingers and calling companies copycats is worthless. If you make a good product it doesn't matter what it rips off of. And most anything can be called a "copycat product" or "ripoff" since popular ideas make money, and things that make money become trends in the market, and trends in the market are implemented into products in that market. But anyway, we don't know how to stack the 3DS up yet until we have a litmus test.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, competition. Pardon me, what competition? <i>- long-winded Ninty retrospective follows -</i> Last I heard, Sony released the PSP Go as kind of a last hurrah, or maybe a hail mary, and then turned it's attention to the aforementioned motion-control "idea" for their PS3. I do not wish to disrespect PSP lovers, and frankly, there are already too many people who will do that of their own accord. So far, the fact that the DS has no competition is not really a very convincing argument - at least to me, a hand held gamer. Back when Nintendo released the GBA and the SP, it didn't have any real competition either. It didn't stop them from making great hand held consoles, though. Rather, it spurred them to try re-establishing the foundations of the hand held genre that they themselves basically made from the ground up. We got the usual "not too expensive, fun for short bursts or long play-throughs, compact" handheld in the DS, as well as the added possibilities it opened up with additions such as lengthy battery times helped along by the fact we can recharge the battery (one of the things that made the GBA SP unique) and an added screen that wasn't just for style, but functionality. 2 screens, one with touch-sensitivity actually made developers think again. sometimes the products sucked (like COP: The Recruit) others shined (TWEWY) but they reinvigorated a tired formula. Also added to it is the ability for local wireless play, (one of the things that makes hand held consoles unique) and wi-fi, which didn't revolutionize anything to start with but is now a huge part of the DS's multiplayer experience.
The PSP came along at that time, perhaps by accident, perhaps by some ill-fated design meant to try to wrestle Nintendo's dominance in the handheld market. Frankly, I don't wanna look further into that, but as we know, the PSP launched along with the DS, and once again Nintendo didn't disappoint. <i>- long-winded Ninty retrospective mostly ends here -</i> Right now, Nintendo is placing all it's cards down and once again trying to re-establish some of the foundations that they have so recently changed. Granted, Nintendo's endeavors mirror perhaps their only failure in the gaming market, which is, of course, the ill-fated Virtual Boy system. But Nintendo hasn't been resting on their laurels all the while as they dominated the hand held scene. The 3DS isn't a stand-alone do-or-die product, it's an upgrade to the current DS line, much like the GBA line was an upgrade of the original gameboy line. The possibilities are endless, the technology is real (so Nintendo assures us believers) and I think it is worth it to stand still, open our minds, and let them bring us along for a ride no other game company has the guts to take us on.
Also, as I cannot resist taking a few well-meant snide comments... here goes:
- So far Sony hasn't really announced any concrete plans for the "PSP 2" or whatever they decide to name any possible followups of the PSP.
- I am guessing here (coz i am so poor i really haven't touched a dual-analog controller), but isn't dual analog mostly great for controllers where your hands are closer together (PSP screen is huge, and with Sony's tech fetish then PSP 2 screen might well be bigger) and you are sitting back, relaxed, and you can move your hands around the controller as fast and as roughly as you please? I shudder to think what will happen to any handheld's components were it to be put under such continuous stress for any extended period of time.
- Uh, if they did add touch-screen support, would it fit with the proposed dual-analog setup? (heaven forbid we get a handheld longer than a footlong hotdog) and even if they did manage to fit it all together, wouldn't the combination of touch-screen/analog-control not only obscure half the screen, but also start a risk of you dropping the system, esp with sweaty hands? Also, if a developer got crazy enough to make a fast-paced game (heaven forbid they scoop TWEWY, lolz) that demands constant use of analog and touch controls, would they provide us with an additional 3rd arm? Peace.
This hasn't so much been a debate as simply providing myltiple reasons why Guild's points are moot. Get back here Guild and defend your points!
maybe it's kinda like an open challenge kinda like "are you feeling lucky, punk? well are you?"
also, there's this at the end of his original post:
QUOTENow, that's my devil's advocate viewpoint. Prove me wrong! Really, please do, good arguments that are actually fun to debate are hard to come by. Be logical, be kind, be respectful, and we can all have a great debate
I think it will be an huge succes. Or, at least, it will work as good as they say. Nintendo isn't a company to release things that could've been way better. They release things when they think it is perfect.
Of course, third party's might screw up, just like they do with the Wii.
Just because they make revised versions doesn't mean they didn't think it was perfect when the originally realeased it.
It's just that after release they realise there are things that could be improved, or they just want to try and milk some extra money out of the consumer.
I've still got my DS Phat and my PSP Phat. They're perfect for me. I was thinking about getting a DSiXL but now that the 3DS has been announced I'm saving my money for that instead.
Obviously the 3DS will have revised versions just like every Nintendo handheld has done, but to me that's no reason to avoid the first version.
i think you misunderstood his meaning. he said they released things when they think it is perfect. meaning, not that the device is perfect, but rather when to shift from one platform to another. the GBA was an improvement to a solid gameboy line, and the DS is an improvement even beyond that.
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