Hacking cSM Sneak Peek!

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Forsaekn said:
ShadowXP said:
That's awesome, great work! I'm really looking forward to this. A few questions - are you using backup launcher 0.3 gamma to load the games from the disc channel? Will we be able to upgrade the backup launcher within the cSM if a newer version (of backup launcher) is released?
The backup launcher is not used when booting from the disc channel, Nintendo's original apploading code is used (which is perfect). The cIOS installed that cSM runs from (ie, IOS251) handles the disc reads so that backups are able to be read.

So are you saying you're going to have 100% working compatibility with 1:1 copies of games?
ohmy.gif


I understand now you're using waninkoko's cIOS as a backend... still impressive though!

Edit: For example, like what DA did with using Sony's code to run PSX ISOs on the PSP... are you using Nintendo's own code to run backups? If so, that's impressive stuff.
 
Tichinde925 said:
Yea, thats what custom cars are.
Yeah. Patching a dozen bytes of code in the system menu (or IOS, or making the system menu use a patched IOS) is about as "custom" as swapping out the radio. I'd call a System Menu a "custom" one if you actually made some changes to it that involve a similar amount of skill as the "customizing" of the car that you describe.

If you want to call something "custom" at least either make it a technically relevant modification. You know, like adding Gamecube pad support to the main menu, making the background image swappable (NOT by editing the textures - I mean actually have it load a JPEG from SD). I'd call that custom, since it involves a significant modification to the code. Not swapping out textures, editing the IOS field in the TMD, and patching trivial bits of code. Menuloader already does a lot of what this "custom" menu is going to do. It patches about 30 or so bytes, total.

Most people are trying to carry on the implications or the definition of "custom" from other fields, depending on what they need. Implying that "custom" is an important achievement while just pretending that a few modifications makes something "custom" is incoherent. If you want to call something "custom" because it's modified (in any way), the custom means VERY little - I could call my System Menu custom already because it has HBC on it. If you want to imply some sort of technical difficulty, such as most people do when applying it to cars, then sorry but a dozen single-instruction patches don't qualify as custom. Pick a definition and stick to it. If you pick the former then everyone actually making new or seriously hacked stuff will just have to find a better term.

cIOS had nothing of "custom" UNTIL the new warezloader 0.3 DI patch came around. THAT is PRECISELY when the "custom" label would start to apply to at least the DI module, IMNSHO. You know, like tweaking the fuel injectors in a car with a custom mod to the ECU to improve performance by varying the timing. Legal/moral implications aside, what was done there had a lot of technical merit and clearly showed that the person doing it had a fairly deep understanding of how that particular IOS module worked and how to add the functionality required. Of course, since Waninkoko started calling it "custom" way before that, they couldn't do anything about changing the name then since it was already supposedly "custom".

If you need another analogy, previous "custom" IOSes and what seems to be the upcoming "custom" menu are about as "custom" as a Windows computer where you changed the screen saver, replaced the wallpaper, and added one of those off-the-shelf skinning tools with a Vista theme.

Any developer with the skill to truly hack the System Menu to bits and pieces should have figured out by now that entirely REPLACING the System Menu is a much more useful prospect and a much more useful thing to be spending time on. We have. If you haven't it probably means that you're just not seeing the big picture. A modified IOS makes sense because replacing IOS is a major pain in the ass and with little practical prospect at the moment, for most real situations. Replacing the System Menu is doable here and now, and just requires some time and a dedicated team of prorgamers.

If you actually manage to revamp the graphical aspect (by itself not good enough! but a decent start), add features (GC pad support), change the GUI layout a bit (that shows that you're not just replacing images), make it tweakable, and in general ADD stuff to it - not just remove restrictions - THEN I'll call it custom all right (not from scratch, but I never said custom implied ONLY from scratch). But right now it's just a few hardcoded menuloader-like patches and an IOS swap.

And if you stick to the "custom = not stock, changed in any way" definition, then that's great, but custom stops implying ANY sort of achievement and becomes a label for pretty much everything that comes out of the wii homebrew/hacking community. That makes it a pretty useless label.
 
I agree with marcan, I was really excited about cSM, until I realized that it isn't a custom system menu, its a HACKED or PATCHED system menu. I wanted to help skin or develop a system menu replacement, one that actually replaces the system menu, for when bootmii comes out, however, I don't have the skills or knowledge about the Wii's internal workings.
 
marcan said:
Tichinde925 said:
Yea, thats what custom cars are.
Yeah. Patching a dozen bytes of code in the system menu (or IOS, or making the system menu use a patched IOS) is about as "custom" as swapping out the radio. I'd call a System Menu a "custom" one if you actually made some changes to it that involve a similar amount of skill as the "customizing" of the car that you describe.

If you want to call something "custom" at least either make it a technically relevant modification. You know, like adding Gamecube pad support to the main menu, making the background image swappable (NOT by editing the textures - I mean actually have it load a JPEG from SD). I'd call that custom, since it involves a significant modification to the code. Not swapping out textures, editing the IOS field in the TMD, and patching trivial bits of code. Menuloader already does a lot of what this "custom" menu is going to do. It patches about 30 or so bytes, total.

Most people are trying to carry on the implications or the definition of "custom" from other fields, depending on what they need. Implying that "custom" is an important achievement while just pretending that a few modifications makes something "custom" is incoherent. If you want to call something "custom" because it's modified (in any way), the custom means VERY little - I could call my System Menu custom already because it has HBC on it. If you want to imply some sort of technical difficulty, such as most people do when applying it to cars, then sorry but a dozen single-instruction patches don't qualify as custom. Pick a definition and stick to it. If you pick the former then everyone actually making new or seriously hacked stuff will just have to find a better term.

cIOS had nothing of "custom" UNTIL the new warezloader 0.3 DI patch came around. THAT is PRECISELY when the "custom" label would start to apply to at least the DI module, IMNSHO. You know, like tweaking the fuel injectors in a car with a custom mod to the ECU to improve performance by varying the timing. Legal/moral implications aside, what was done there had a lot of technical merit and clearly showed that the person doing it had a fairly deep understanding of how that particular IOS module worked and how to add the functionality required. Of course, since Waninkoko started calling it "custom" way before that, they couldn't do anything about changing the name then since it was already supposedly "custom".

If you need another analogy, previous "custom" IOSes and what seems to be the upcoming "custom" menu are about as "custom" as a Windows computer where you changed the screen saver, replaced the wallpaper, and added one of those off-the-shelf skinning tools with a Vista theme.

Any developer with the skill to truly hack the System Menu to bits and pieces should have figured out by now that entirely REPLACING the System Menu is a much more useful prospect and a much more useful thing to be spending time on. We have. If you haven't it probably means that you're just not seeing the big picture. A modified IOS makes sense because replacing IOS is a major pain in the ass and with little practical prospect at the moment, for most real situations. Replacing the System Menu is doable here and now, and just requires some time and a dedicated team of prorgamers.

If you actually manage to revamp the graphical aspect (by itself not good enough! but a decent start), add features (GC pad support), change the GUI layout a bit (that shows that you're not just replacing images), make it tweakable, and in general ADD stuff to it - not just remove restrictions - THEN I'll call it custom all right (not from scratch, but I never said custom implied ONLY from scratch). But right now it's just a few hardcoded menuloader-like patches and an IOS swap.

And if you stick to the "custom = not stock, changed in any way" definition, then that's great, but custom stops implying ANY sort of achievement and becomes a label for pretty much everything that comes out of the wii homebrew/hacking community. That makes it a pretty useless label.
No, Marcan, what you refer to would be called a "replacement IOS". A custom, or customized IOS would be anything that is modified from its stock form, like Forsaekn's work.
 
marcan said:
And if you stick to the "custom = not stock, changed in any way" definition, then that's great, but custom stops implying ANY sort of achievement
But who says custom has to == achievement? That is just your definition, and certainly isn't in the Oxford English.


QUOTEbecomes a label for pretty much everything ... That makes it a pretty useless label.
Yes, but that is the English language for you. Just because you deem it incorrect doesn't make it so.

I agree with pretty much everything you say EXCEPT the definition of custom - you are trying to attach meanings to it that aren't valid.

Just because there is no skill involved doesn't negate the custom tag.
 
fishears said:
No, Marcan, what you refer to would be called a "replacement IOS". A custom, or customized IOS would be anything that is modified from its stock form, like Forsaekn's work.
I have a custom Dell! I upgraded the hard drive
I have a custom Windows! I changed one registry setting.
I have a custom car! I added a bumper sticker

When custom means "anything that is modified from its stock form" then it stops making any sense as a label, because it implies absolutely nothing other than "modified from its stock form", which is a pretty weak assertion. I couldn't care less if something is "modified from its stock form". I'd much rather know if something is "significantly modified from its stock form".

If you want to go by that definition, fine, but be aware that then even mentioning that something is "custom" is rather pointless. People are applying the "custom" label and implying that it is somehow "above and beyond" a typical patch, when in reality even a single patch would count as "custom" by that definition.
 
So it doesn't qualify to be labeled A "custom Firmware ", who cares , still sounds good . why all the hate over something sop damm trivial?
 
QUOTE said:
I have a custom Dell! I upgraded the hard drive
I have a custom Windows! I changed one registry setting.
I have a custom car! I added a bumper sticker

lol, i have replaced my car engine with a BRM engine
tongue.gif
that's custom modification. hehe
full engine replacement, new 17" wolfrace alloys, magnex oval exhaust system, k&N filter ohyeah nice n customised
tongue.gif
 
marcan said:
fishears said:
No, Marcan, what you refer to would be called a "replacement IOS". A custom, or customized IOS would be anything that is modified from its stock form, like Forsaekn's work.
I have a custom Dell! I upgraded the hard drive
I have a custom Windows! I changed one registry setting.
I have a custom car! I added a bumper sticker

When custom means "anything that is modified from its stock form" then it stops making any sense as a label, because it implies absolutely nothing other than "modified from its stock form", which is a pretty weak assertion. I couldn't care less if something is "modified from its stock form". I'd much rather know if something is "significantly modified from its stock form".

If you want to go by that definition, fine, but be aware that then even mentioning that something is "custom" is rather pointless.

All terms of reference are subjective. That's how people make sense of their surroundings and experiences. In order to communicate globally however, we need to agree to adhere to more global definitions. It is a necessary submission. As such, the term "custom" may be applied to modifying OR creating according to personal preference. But an English lesson here is racing towards the realms of an off-topic discussion....
 
Until the IOS is completely rewritten, it is still a CUSTOM IOS (cIOS). When it's rewritten, and extremely little to no original code is left, then it's a REPLACEMENT (rIOS).


cIOS and hIOS (Hacked IOS) are the same. Welcome to language skills 101. Just because you want a word to mean something else doesn't mean the whole world is going to change to fit your needs.

cIOS will be CUSTOM IOS until a complete replacement is made.

Want people to stop using cIOS and stop calling it custom, get back on your high horse, and ride off to where ever it is you code, and make a complete replacement that will completely stop the backup loaders, or warezloaders as you call them, and only allow true homebrew to run... no emulators, no copywrited games, nothing but true innovative homebrew.

Until that day, Tits or GTFO!
 
zidane_genome said:
Until the IOS is completely rewritten, it is still a CUSTOM IOS (cIOS). When it's rewritten, and extremely little to no original code is left, then it's a REPLACEMENT (rIOS).


cIOS and hIOS (Hacked IOS) are the same. Welcome to language skills 101. Just because you want a word to mean something else doesn't mean the whole world is going to change to fit your needs.

cIOS will be CUSTOM IOS until a complete replacement is made.

Want people to stop using cIOS and stop calling it custom, get back on your high horse, and ride off to where ever it is you code, and make a complete replacement that will completely stop the backup loaders, or warezloaders as you call them, and only allow true homebrew to run... no emulators, no copywrited games, nothing but true innovative homebrew.

Until that day, Tits or GTFO!

Well said.
 
To me its a custom firmware, but to anyone who thinks it isn't:

Just forget about the title you give it... Just think of the name of the program as Custom Firmware, like he could have called it " *ù$^!!§ "..

Moreover, who the f**k gives a damn if it can "officialy" be called custom firmware, I'm just thankfull devs are doing this and looking forward to the release.
 
zidane_genome said:
Just because you want a word to mean something else doesn't mean the whole world is going to change to fit your needs.
I have a feeling that most of the world doesn't consider "custom" to include "minimally modified". You know, dictionaries can be a good example:

QUOTE said:
made specially for individual customers: custom shoes.
Made to order.
made according to the specifications of an individual [syn: custom-made] [ant: ready-made]
(Or "bespoke") An adjective describing any product that is special in some way, individually created for a specific user or system, as opposed to generic or off-the-shelf.`

Dictionaries need to be interpreted too, and these particular examples (as returned by dictionary.com) all strongly imply that the modifications or "special" parts are not trivial. Just because you decide that any minute change makes something "custom" doesn't mean that the rest of the world agrees with you.

zidane_genome said:
and make a complete replacement
What makes you think that we AREN'T actually doing that already? (hint hint)

QUOTE(zidane_genome @ Nov 16 2008, 02:15 AM)
that will completely stop the backup loaders, or warezloaders as you call them, and only allow true homebrew to run... no emulators, no copywrited games, nothing but true innovative homebrew.
Good idea.
 
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