Are you upgrading?

[linuxares]

I don't get why people are already upgradring. I dislike Windows 11 since they implement "console" tactics in locking out hardware that ain't that old. Sure you can patch it, but should normal people need to do this? Will this be the norm that the OS now force you to upgrade your hardware?

 

[D34DL1N3R]

VBS is not enabled by default on Windows 10, but it is enabled by default on at least some Windows 11 clean installs. The issue I'm referring to is the potentially 40% hit on unsupported systems that don't have MBEC hardware support, not the lesser hit on supported systems. The fact that you don't have VBS enabled, or do and it isn't causing a significant performance hit, doesn't mean it isn't an issue.

The easiest way to avoid the VBS problems on unsupported systems (for now) is to do an upgrade install of Windows 11 over Windows 10. We also don't know what other settings are changing from Windows 10 to Windows 11 that unsupported systems might benefit from skipping. Better yet, for those who aren't tech savvy and/or don't want to potentially deal with issues should just stay on Windows 10 until its end of life.

This was but one example of how it could be beneficial to do an upgrade install. Don't take it personally.

Can you link to the 40% performance hit information? Also, if a person can disable VBS, then it is not an issue. If it were some huge thing like you're making it out to be that could cause serious issues down the road - MS wouldn't allow some pre-built systems to ship with it disabled, nor would they even let you disable it to begin with, or install Windows 11 without it. Is there an issue with performance with VBS enabled on supported AND unsupported hardware? Possibly. There have also been tests that showed little to no difference, and even improvements with it enabled in some instances (edit: apart from the AMD bug that has already been confirmed to have a patch coming).

Installing over top of Windows 10 does not somehow magically make the hardware more compatible that it does doing a clean install. The entire "best way to avoid problems is a dirty install" thing is complete nonsense. And "We also don't know what other settings are changing from Windows 10 to Windows 11 that unsupported systems might benefit from skipping"? That's even MORE reason to do a clean install. Left over Windows 10 files, settings, registry entries, etc. etc. Your entire Win11 will work better on a dirty install has absolutely zero credibility whatsoever. It's not personal and I didn't take anything personally. You're just wrong is all.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

I don't get why people are already upgradring. I dislike Windows 11 since they implement "console" tactics in locking out hardware that ain't that old. Sure you can patch it, but should normal people need to do this? Will this be the norm that the OS now force you to upgrade your hardware?

You can install it on unsupported hardware with no patches/hacks. Edit: I guess having to do registry edits is patching. So yeah. I understand your point. The average person shouln't have to do this. But keep in mind that if it wasn't necessary, the average person would also be completely clueless if something happened later on like the inability to get updates via Windows Update. The average person has no idea how to look for and install them manually. It's best for the average person that they leave the "locks" in place.

 

[SG854]

I don't get why people are already upgradring. I dislike Windows 11 since they implement "console" tactics in locking out hardware that ain't that old. Sure you can patch it, but should normal people need to do this? Will this be the norm that the OS now force you to upgrade your hardware?

Because I already have the supported hardware. I also wanted something new since I got bored with windows 10. I like the new icons and menus and sound effects they look and sound nicer. I got frustrated with mulit monitor and HDR support on 10 since it sucks on it. There were reasons for the upgrade for me.

 

[Armadillo]

I'll stick with 10 for a while, working fine, so don't feel the need to rush into 11. Can't accidently upgrade as Intel PTT (Intel's firmware tpm) is disabled in UEFI at the moment.

I think the TPM requirement is a bit of a farce anyway. Microsoft always banging on about enviroment issues, being green, blah blah, but are forcing obsolescence on pcs that are otherwise more then powerful enough to run windows smoothly.

 

[Lacius]

Can you link to the 40% performance hit information? Also, if a person can disable VBS, then it is not an issue. If it were some huge thing like you're making it out to be that could cause serious issues down the road - MS wouldn't allow some pre-built systems to ship with it disabled, nor would they even let you disable it to begin with, or install Windows 11 without it. Is there an issue with performance with VBS enabled on supported AND unsupported hardware? Possibly. There have also been tests that showed little to no difference, and even improvements with it enabled in some instances (edit: apart from the AMD bug that has already been confirmed to have a patch coming).

Installing over top of Windows 10 does not somehow magically make the hardware more compatible that it does doing a clean install. The entire "best way to avoid problems is a dirty install" thing is complete nonsense. And "We also don't know what other settings are changing from Windows 10 to Windows 11 that unsupported systems might benefit from skipping"? That's even MORE reason to do a clean install. Left over Windows 10 files, settings, registry entries, etc. etc. Your entire Win11 will work better on a dirty install has absolutely zero credibility whatsoever. It's not personal and I didn't take anything personally. You're just wrong is all.

When you call my post an "entire bunch of nonsense" and cattily say "Just. Stop" without fully understanding what you're talking about and without refuting anything I've said, I can only assume it's personal.

40% number: https://oltnews.com/why-windows-11-...uirements-according-to-microsoft-ars-technica

I've already explained one instance in which an upgrade install will run better out of the box than a clean install. Nobody is arguing an upgrade install magically makes the hardware more sufficient, so you can put the strawman away.

I don't recommend installing Windows 11 on unsupported hardware, but the evidence suggests that avoiding at least some Windows 11 defaults through an upgrade install results in a generally better experience for those people.

 

[Jayro]

I have an Intel i7 6700 (non-K) system that could benefit from Windows 11, so I'll try installing it once I get a power supply for it.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

When you call my post an "entire bunch of nonsense" and cattily say "Just. Stop" without fully understanding what you're talking about and without refuting anything I've said, I can only assume it's personal.

40% number: https://oltnews.com/why-windows-11-...uirements-according-to-microsoft-ars-technica

I've already explained one instance in which an upgrade install will run better out of the box than a clean install. Nobody is arguing an upgrade install magically makes the hardware more sufficient, so you can put the strawman away.

I don't recommend installing Windows 11 on unsupported hardware, but the evidence suggests that avoiding at least some Windows 11 defaults through an upgrade install results in a generally better experience for those people.

Real world evidence has disproven that article already. Also, did you even read the entire thing yourself? Or are you just forgetting the entire part that says "

So if Microsoft enforces MBEC accelerated HVCI support (which phrase) on all Windows 11 PCs, then surely it changes the default security settings to take advantage of these features? According to the company’s blog post, the answer is currently no, at least not on existing PCs (emphasis added): “Although we don’t need VBS when upgrading to Windows 11, we believe that the security benefits it offers are so important that we wanted the minimum system requirements to ensure that every PC running Windows 11 can meet the same security as the [US Department of Defense] based on. In partnership with our OEM and silicon partners, we will be enabling VBS and HVCI on most new PCs over the next year. And we will continue to look for opportunities to extend VBS to other systems over time. “

There is no valid instance in which an upgrade install of 11 will run better out of the box than a clean install, so you can put that strawman away. What you are implying also implies that a dirty install will somehow magically make any hardware incompatibilities less incompatible and thus be a better install than clean. Complete BS. My comment was never a strawman to begin with.

That said. nothing left to say to you on this particular matter. I feel you're flat out full of shit and nothing you can say or post will convince me otherwise. Your "dirty install is better than clean install" thing is pure bullshit for the reason that any possible issues on non-supported hardware will still exist. Clean or dirty install wont change that. You're also implying that it's better to have leftever Windows 10 settings on a new OS that has plenty of different settings and different means to access them. But, lololol. If you actually believe the fairy tales you're peddling, so be it. You're free to believe in the Easter Bunny too.

 

[Lacius]

and nothing you can say or post will convince me otherwise.

Come back when you've decided to be intellectually honest then. There are very real reasons to do upgrade installs, including but not limited to when it's on unsupported hardware. You can see my previous posts on why.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

Come back when you've decided to be intellectually honest then. There are very real reasons to do upgrade installs, including but not limited to when it's on unsupported hardware. You can see my previous posts on why.

So I do have something else to say. A couple things actually. The first being that you're moving your goal posts on the upgrade install. First it was just related to non supported hardware. Now you're extending it to whatever other reason you may wish is a good reason to do an in place upgrade. Secondly, it's amusing at best how you can be so "TAKE THE VACCINE!!!!" but yet with a fucking operating system you're "BUT BUT BUT!!! YOU DON'T KNOW THE LONG TERM EFFECTS!!!!"

 

[Lacius]

So I do have something else to say. A couple things actually. The first being that you're moving your goal posts on the upgrade install. First it was just related to non supported hardware. Now you're extending it to whatever other reason you may wish is a good reason to do an in place upgrade. Secondly, it's amusing at best how you can be so "TAKE THE VACCINE!!!!" but yet with a fucking operating system you're "BUT BUT BUT!!! YOU DON'T KNOW THE LONG TERM EFFECTS!!!!"

I haven't moved any goalposts. Upgrade installs have their place, particularly when it comes to convenience, and I've also explained one situation in which they offer a better out-of-box experience. I haven't mentioned it yet, but there's also the issue of Windows Update automatically providing the best drivers on one operating system but not on another. A clean install may remove those working drivers, while an upgrade install may leave them intact. While I still agree with you that clean installations are generally best, that doesn't mean they are always best. VBS is a good and relevant example of this.

With regard to the COVID-19 vaccines, the scientific data is very clear that they're safe and effective, and the risk of long-term effects is extremely low (and significantly lower than the risks associated with actually contracting COVID-19). With regard to Windows 11, we've seen evidence that unsupported hardware has the potential to take performance hits, whether it's now or in the future, and we've also heard from Microsoft directly that this is a very real risk. They have been clear they are planning to make increasing use of features that unsupported hardware is lacking. There's no contradiction.

 

[smileyhead]

Ok, so apparently I was able to install Windows 11 on my laptop the normal way and I only got a warning from the installer. The OS itself isn't warning me about my machine being incompatible and I was able to download a security and a feature update from Windows Update.

 

[SG854]

I have an Intel i7 6700 (non-K) system that could benefit from Windows 11, so I'll try installing it once I get a power supply for it.

I think I heared 11 is lighter then 10. I also read that youtube playback is smoother. It's been very responsive for me.

I had no issues with various games I tried. No stuttering or performance drop.

 

[linuxares]

I think I heared 11 is lighter then 10. I also read that youtube playback is smoother. It's been very responsive for me.

I had no issues with various games I tried. No stuttering or performance drop.

I've heard the opposite with the weight. But no clue personally.
I haven't updated as of yet. I only use Windows on my gaming rig anyway.

 

[Jayro]

I've heard the opposite with the weight. But no clue personally.
I haven't updated as of yet. I only use Windows on my gaming rig anyway.

It's lighter for me on my shit laptop.

 

[SG854]

It's lighter for me on my shit laptop.

That's what I heard that people got a performance boost on older hardware.

 

[SG854]

It's lighter for me on my shit laptop.

Windows 10 was suppose to be that in the beginning till updates added lots of bloatware.

 

[Lacius]

According to the article provided by Lacius, your laptop must be crashing like crazy, because Microsoft said so. lol.

@Lacius You 100% moved the goal posts from your prior posts. I mean, they're right there for everyone to read. Not sure how you can even deny that, but okay? And there are HUGE contradictions in the entire second half of your last post. HUGE. I'm done though. Not wasting my time trying to teach the blind to see. But you know, sometimes I see where the other side are coming from in the political topics regarding your hypocrisy. Enjoy your day, I have a BBQ to attend in an hour.

It isn't moving the goalposts if my initial point hasn't changed. On unsupported hardware, an upgrade install of Windows 11 may provide a better experience than a clean install. Where's the problem?

 

[Guggimon]

Oh yeah, quick question. Anyone know if I can upgrade my laptop with an unsupported CPU (i5-5200U) and no TPM? It's only 6 years old and runs great, and it feels like a waste leaving it on Windows 10 forever, which will eventually become outdated.

Yeah for sure If i can Upgrade my Utra Potato PC (It came with Windows XP and this pc has A Intel core 2 Extreme (Not a duo) at 1,71 clock Yeah very weird) with 2,5 GB ram) and i can tell you I LOVE IT Windows 10 was slow and unresponsive on this but Windows 11 is a HUGE Performance BOOST

 

[Guggimon]

i remember people copying boot.wim (i think) to a windows 10 iso
might be wrong

Can confirm YOU are correct (Thats how i Upgraded my Potato Pc from 2003 came with Windows xp original) From 10 to 11 (because 10 still supports BIOS and 11 only UEFI so i had no other choice) What did you expect from a PC from 2003 with no tpm or secure boot (can't even get Epic Games Launcher to work bc this pc HAS NO OPENgl support)

For me with supported hardware I just wanted to test if there was any issues because it's a new os so there's bound to be bugs and things they need to iron out.

I was looking forward to the better HDR support which is why I wanted to upgrade. HDR on windows 10 sucked. Sometimes it wouldn't switch back to sdr and I would have to turn off my TV. Multi monitor kinda sucked too of you had a 1440p and a 4k displays connected. The icons will become mixed up and throw around randomly evertime when I connected both displays.

Try Downloading both Windows 10 and Windows 11 iso and just replace the 10 Install.wim (Or esd) with the 11 Install.wim (Or esd) and you are good to go (Just make sure both isos are ether esd or wim bc if one is esd and the other wim thats a pain in the ass to deal with) (hint: both MS official Windows 10 and 11 iso are .wim Just download media creation tool and save the iso and download the win 11 iso) both are avalible on ms site for free

It's lighter for me on my shit laptop.

Same My potato pc is now Sonic instead of Gary the snail

Windows 11 can recieve updates Nomatter if you have installed it on unsupported hardware or supported: Ms isn't blocking updates only the hardware to get windows 11 (thats why i used the win10 iso to trick the installer it is installing windows 10 but when you can select the version you want it said windows 11 instead of 10)
Only thing you need is both win10 and win 11 iso and copy the install.wim from the win11 iso to the win10 iso and tada
You fixed windows 11 (It could happen that you still got the Unsupported message just use regedit to fix that SHIFT + F10 is the shortcut in the installer for CMD)