Anime aren't cartoons?

[machomuu]

they are all "types" of cartoons

anime is a "type" of cartoon. that is the whole point on this blog. it is not some mystical medium in and of itself. it is a cartoon from Japan.

Oh, I see, you're trying to say that the definition "animated cartoon" means anime is a type of cartoon. Unfortunately, that doesn't work. If it said "Animation", that would be one thing, but it said animated cartoon, and references the word it is defining in it's own definition, thus narrowing the generalization.

I'm not "trying" to say anything. I "am" saying it.

tell you what. I'm going to decide that definition 2b (of the definition YOU provided) is the proper definition of a cartoon. Then I am going to apply that to definition 3 in stating that a cartoon is an animated comic strip... Truth be told, you can find more definitions on the net such as the one Buleste posted earlier or the one I posted in my OP...

If you have to get that convoluted in order for it to make sense...you're going to lose some people along the way...

I'm not getting convoluted at all, but let me ask you a question, do you thing "My Neighbors The Yamadas" fits that description?

 

[Schlupi]

Hahaha, Machomuu, you're right. I forget that cartoons can be expressed through non-animated mediums as well. That changes the definition quite a bit; Looks like I have been mistaken. Example of a cartoon:

All Anime are cartoons (in one meaning of the word), but NOT humorous cartoons. All Manga follow the same rule, as well as Western animation and comics.

All drawn and or art medium can be considered a cartoon.

 

[Shinigami357]

Eh... Personally, I think there's a distinct difference between them.

Yes, you can say that anime is a kind of cartoon. They're similar, but not the same.

I mean, obviously the differences are obvious. But if you want to get down to the the simplest, basic level, they're both animated illustrations. So, in essence, they are kinds of illustrated animation [because there are other types of animation like stop-motion, CG, etc]

That all sounds confusing... Basically I'm saying that anime?cartoon [where the eff is the alt-code for "not equal to"???], but rather:

• illustrated/hand-drawn animation
  • anime
  • cartoons

 

[Schlupi]

Eh... Personally, I think there's a distinct difference between them.

Yes, you can say that anime is a kind of cartoon. They're similar, but not the same.

I mean, obviously the differences are obvious. But if you want to get down to the the simplest, basic level, they're both animated illustrations. So, in essence, they are kinds of illustrated animation [because there are other types of animation like stop-motion, CG, etc]

That all sounds confusing... Basically I'm saying that anime?cartoon [where the eff is the alt-code for "not equal to"???], but rather:

• illustrated/hand-drawn animation
  • anime
  • cartoons

illustrations are by definition themselves a cartoon.

 

[Shinigami357]

I thought OP meant "cartoon" to be the animated version? If you were to classify "cartoon" as the drawn medium, then that's an entirely different matter [also, that would then include manga, if you're really specific].

 

[Densetsu]

The Japanese consider Western cartoons anime (including, but not limited to, Disney films, etc.). Since the Japanese invented the word "anime," you can't really argue with them that they're using their own word incorrectly. If they say that Western cartoons are anime, then cartoon = anime. And since "anime" is just a shortening of the English-invented word "animation," which is one of the definitions of "cartoon," it can be argued that all anime are cartoons and all cartoons are anime.

However...

The Japanese have taken English words and perverted their meanings to mean something that's completely different from their original English meaning. Take, for instance, the word ????? (manshon), which is taken from the English word "mansion." To us, "mansion" means a large home or manor, usually occupied by a wealthy person and his/her family. To the Japanese, "manshon" is an apartment complex. We could argue that they're using the word incorrectly, but they've taken the word "mansion" and made it their own, with their own meaning. The same could be said for the word "anime." Westerners have taken the word "anime" and interpreted it to refer to the particular style of Japanese animation.

Even if the Japanese say "anime" is the same thing as "cartoon," the word has taken on a whole new meaning in the English language. If you study the etymology of any word, you'll find that often their meanings have evolved to mean something different from their original meaning. I think this tends to happen a lot when words from a source language find their way into a new language and become mainstream in the new language. At least, I can say it's true for English words that make their way into the Japanese language.

My take on it is that you can say "anime" and "cartoon" are one and the same, or you could say that "anime" specifically refers to the Japanese style of animation, and either way you'd be right. I don't like to quote dictionaries because languages are constantly changing and evolving. To me it doesn't make a difference. I think those who argue that it can only be one way or the other are the ones who are wrong.

 

[machomuu]

Eh... Personally, I think there's a distinct difference between them.

Yes, you can say that anime is a kind of cartoon. They're similar, but not the same.

I mean, obviously the differences are obvious. But if you want to get down to the the simplest, basic level, they're both animated illustrations. So, in essence, they are kinds of illustrated animation [because there are other types of animation like stop-motion, CG, etc]

That all sounds confusing... Basically I'm saying that anime?cartoon [where the eff is the alt-code for "not equal to"???], but rather:

• illustrated/hand-drawn animation
  • anime
  • cartoons

illustrations are by definition themselves a cartoon.

Not exactly, they must be satiracal, unrealistic, or exaggerated in some way, shape, or form. Not every illustration is a cartoon.

Also Densetsu, so basically that means that cartoons = anime but anime don't always = cartoons?

 

[retKHAAAN]

I'm not getting convoluted at all, but let me ask you a question, do you thing "My Neighbors The Yamadas" fits that description?

Yes.


@Shinigami357

I think it actually goes more like this:

Cartoons
----Still
--------Comics
--------Manga
--------Etc...
----Animated
--------Japanese Anime
--------Western/Saturday Morning Variety
--------Etc...

They are all "types" of cartoons.

 

[Shinigami357]

I think that's the problem here. Everything gets lost in translation and stuff. We can't generalize one thing under an English definition, nor the Japanese one. So suffice to say they are similar, but have distinctive qualities, thus they are not the same thing.

 

[machomuu]

I think that's the problem here. Everything gets lost in translation and stuff. We can't generalize one thing under an English definition, nor the Japanese one. So suffice to say they are similar, but have distinctive qualities, thus they are not the same thing.

That does seem to be the case.

Wait a minute...0ld8oy, have you seen My Neighbor the Yamadas? It never was nor ever will be a comic strip, it is simply a story about a little girl drawing pictures explaining the neighbors next door, no transitions, just pictures and speech. That's not animation at all.

 

[Ringo619]

THis does remind me of a girl who is in my class , and shes such a weeboo (a wannabe Japanese) and me and my friend said , that anime is just cartoons and she got all pissed , saying no anime and cartoons are different and blah blah.
Meh for me anime is just cartoons just a little more dramatic and a lot more intense.

 

[retKHAAAN]

I'll go right back to this...

A simple drawing showing the features of its subjects in an exaggerated way, esp. in a newspaper or magazine.

That is the definition of a cartoon, no animation is involved. Manga are often called comic books, but they are solely manga and they actually preceded comics. Even further, anime are japanese animations and simply that.

More precisely

: a preparatory design, drawing, or painting (as for a fresco)
2
a : a drawing intended as satire, caricature, or humor
b : comic strip3
: animated cartoon
4
: a ludicrously simplistic, unrealistic, or one-dimensional portrayal or version

 

[machomuu]

^ Thing is Yamada's not strung together as a strip, but more as a moving of one piece of paper to the next. The difference between that and homemade flip cartoons is that they use rapid movement to emulate movement in said cartoon, 'tis not the case with the Yamada's.

THis does remind me of a girl who is in my class , and shes such a weeboo (a wannabe Japanese) and me and my friend said , that anime is just cartoons and she got all pissed , saying no anime and cartoons are different and blah blah.
Meh for me anime is just cartoons just a little more dramatic and a lot more intense.

Well to be fair a weeaboo is one who aspires to be another race, while someone who is wapanese aspires to be Japanese. Please don't mistake them for us ordinary otaku, honestly I find them far more annoying.

 

[Densetsu]

Also Densetsu, so basically that means that cartoons = anime but anime don't always = cartoons?

If you were to ask a Japanese person, "Do you consider Disney films as anime?" they would say "yes."

I'm just saying that your interpretation of the word just depends on your cultural standpoint. The word "anime" means different things to Westerners and Japanese. Some Westerners interpret the word from the Japanese standpoint, while others interpret it from the Western standpoint. Neither interpretation is wrong. I'd say it's just a cultural preference. I don't think Japanese people care about the distinction nearly as much as Westerners do

 

[Schlupi]

The Japanese consider Western cartoons anime (including, but not limited to, Disney films, etc.). Since the Japanese invented the word "anime," you can't really argue with them that they're using their own word incorrectly. If they say that Western cartoons are anime, then cartoon = anime. And since "anime" is just a shortening of the English-invented word "animation," which is one of the definitions of "cartoon," it can be argued that all anime are cartoons and all cartoons are anime.

However...

The Japanese have taken English words and perverted their meanings to mean something that's completely different from their original English meaning. Take, for instance, the word ????? (manshon), which is taken from the English word "mansion." To us, "mansion" means a large home or manor, usually occupied by a wealthy person and his/her family. To the Japanese, "manshon" is an apartment complex. We could argue that they're using the word incorrectly, but they've taken the word "mansion" and made it their own, with their own meaning. The same could be said for the word "anime." Westerners have taken the word "anime" and interpreted it to refer to the particular style of Japanese animation.

Even if the Japanese say "anime" is the same thing as "cartoon," the word has taken on a whole new meaning in the English language. If you study the etymology of any word, you'll find that often their meanings have evolved to mean something different from their original meaning. I think this tends to happen a lot when words from a source language find their way into a new language and become mainstream in the new language. At least, I can say it's true for English words that make their way into the Japanese language.

My take on it is that you can say "anime" and "cartoon" are one and the same, or you could say that "anime" specifically refers to the Japanese style of animation, and either way you'd be right. I don't like to quote dictionaries because languages are constantly changing and evolving. To me it doesn't make a difference. I think those who argue that it can only be one way or the other are the ones who are wrong.

So it's also like the words hentai or ecchi, in that case.

 

[machomuu]

Also Densetsu, so basically that means that cartoons = anime but anime don't always = cartoons?

If you were to ask a Japanese person, "Do you consider Disney films as anime?" they would say "yes."

I'm just saying that your interpretation of the word just depends on your cultural standpoint. The word "anime" means different things to Westerners and Japanese. Some Westerners interpret the word from the Japanese standpoint, while others interpret it from the Western standpoint. Neither interpretation is wrong. I'd say it's just a cultural preference. I don't think Japanese people care about the distinction nearly as much as Westerners do

Great...so basically it's one of those "forever debatable" arguments...I hate those. In that case I'm done, they bore me as it's just a back and forth until someone gives up deal.

 

[retKHAAAN]

^ Thing is Yamada's not strung together as a strip, but more as a moving of one piece of paper to the next. The difference between that and homemade flip cartoons is that they use rapid movement to emulate movement in said cartoon, 'tis not the case with the Yamada's.

if there is a succession of images telling a story, it is a strip. it doesn't matter if they are placed right beside one another or shown to you one at a time.

i merely brought up the simulated movement to bridge the gap between one single image and an anime made up of many. one image might be a cartoon...100,000 cartoons might make up an anime/animated movie. the fact that strung together, they become something more doesn't change the fact that they are still 100,000 cartoons.

the whole point of the blog was that it's nothing to get butthurt over is you hear someone call an anime a cartoon... it doesn't take away from the effect of the story or the quality of the artistry. it doesn't belittle the otaku. it is what it is.

 

[machomuu]

^ Thing is Yamada's not strung together as a strip, but more as a moving of one piece of paper to the next. The difference between that and homemade flip cartoons is that they use rapid movement to emulate movement in said cartoon, 'tis not the case with the Yamada's.

if there is a succession of images telling a story, it is a strip. it doesn't matter if they are placed right beside one another or shown to you one at a time.

i merely brought up the simulated movement to bridge the gap between one single image and an anime made up of many. one image might be a cartoon...100,000 cartoons might make up an anime/animated movie. the fact that strung together, they become something more doesn't change the fact that they are still 100,000 cartoons.

the whole point of the blog was that it's nothing to get butthurt over is you hear someone call an anime a cartoon... it doesn't take away from the effect of the story or the quality of the artistry. it doesn't belittle the otaku. it is what it is.

Actually it's one of my pet peeves. The reason for this is because it oozes ignorance, and I absolutely hate ignorance. People don't stop to take a look and see that they differ and can be the same in certain cases but aren't most of the time. People don't stop to see a difference, they think "it's animated, so it must be a cartoon", that is not true.

 

[Urza]

I vote we start using the term "Japanimation" again.

 

[machomuu]

I vote we start using the term "Japanimation" again.

...wait.

Honestly, that's not a bad idea.