After ModMii installs, what .....

morning_glory

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Well, well, well ....
It seems that the old, outdated wbfs partition format is still working wonders :)
It is a pain, as fat32/ntfs are so much easier to work with a pc & wii.
Thanks to WBM for not requiring .net framework as an extra.

Had to try it with the newer usb flash drives, as they were all failing with todays standards & recommendations. Works for some & fails for others. I needed proof !

I'm using a usb 3.2, 256gb sandisk ultra fit stick (extremely short stick). I have 3 of these just awaiting further testing. All these sticks (& other sticks) failed almost 100% with the standard fat32 & totally failed 100% with ntfs formats.
Only the GC games worked flawlessly with fat32, & that was using Nintendont directly with game-name.ciso &/or nkit game formats (no game folders). Exfat just plainly failed with everything. Frustrating !!!

Anyway, I just used Wii Backup Manager, formatted the above 256gb usb stick to wbfs, transferred the games over (WBM) & hey presto. Success !! Well, almost :(
GX showed the games & played them, but so far, 1 game had no sound (Deep Space), but using usb config was fine. GX seems to need fine tuning at the game start.
The wbfs games I used were already split (wiibafu), but WBM seems to have split them in a different way (size wise). I could never get Dead Space to work in any format or file sizes (all other split games failed too).

It's taken a little time to get WBM to do what I wanted. User guides are not very informative & don't make clear sense :(

Give it a try.
I'm stuck with using only WBM, as I really don't wanna use apps that require .net framework. Have fun with success of the newer usb sticks. I know I did :)

I'm sure I will find more crap when it hits the fan, but at least I'll be learning that standards are meant to be broken. Just running of cats that need skinning in many other ways ;)

I'm slowly approaching my journey's end (with testing the unthinkable & the not recommended), & I'll be embarking on different projects. Perhaps not here.
Do feel free to suggest other hardware interests & perhaps I can oblige with some trials & reports.
 

Wiimpathy

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You do as you want but the Wii homebrew is quite mature. Most of the flaws are known now.
While the wbfs partition was great and only solution in 2009, corruption happens very easily. And it's not so easy to copy/delete/repair files.
Fat32 isn't perfect but the only reliable solution.

Same for using sticks instead of hdds. It tends to fail more often.
But once again, you're free to use whatever alternatives(ntfs stick?:)) you want.
 
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morning_glory

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Appreciate your input, thanks.
I set out to test MY theories & I will see them through. New ideas pop-up & this gives me the motivation.

What corruption are you referring to ?
So far, wbfs partition is way more successful compared to fat32. Ntfs is the most disappointing. Didn't hold much hope for exfat (pity). Yeah, it failed :( But, these tests were with 32gb, 64gb, 128gb & 256gb flash drives.
That's why I need time to run tests with SDXC in usb adapter. And my 512gb sdxc evo+ will be collected on Thrs :)

What I really would like is to find a win app (without .net framework) that can read/copy/paste to & fro wbfs partition devices. I can do without it, but it would just make it less work than using WBM.

My other curiosity is why wii used both wbfs (for usb) & fat32 (for sd). Or am I misunderstanding something ?

Anybody tried wbfs partition on sd ? Is it possible ?
I know there's no point now. Sd works fine with fat32, but there are still rules that need to be followed. Some of those rules may change with wbfs partition structure.
 

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Generally fat32 is recommended for both usb and sd, but there are pros and cons to other formats too, like improved compatibility for small usb flash drives if formatted as wbfs, or the ability to store large files greater than 4GB if using Ntfs (not really important for wii files/games that can be split, but maybe useful if the same drive is used to store other big files, like HD movies for example)
 

morning_glory

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I understand the recommendations, but ...

Just doesn't add up.
Why would the wii designers implement the wbfs if it wasn't meant to be used or gave problems ? And, from what I'm reading/finding, the sd side was always in some form of fat format. I also believe the design was left open to manipulation.

Has anything really changed with the newer consoles (eg: wiiU etc) ? From what I gather, most of HBC/hacks/mods/apps are still being used there. Just slightly altered. But the main approaches remain very similar. I know nothing about other consoles & just trying to understand (not overly ;) ).
I do feel that the wbfs partition was eventually totally dropped, but only because of the incredible work by app coders. This would have actually increased their IQ levels (wii designer coders). Hardware wise, the wii still holds very strong future possibilities. It may be slow by today's standards, but age is just a number ;)

Mods/hacks/apps compatibilities have gotten so much better. I understand it's always been an enduring task to improve things, & I'm grateful it's still alive.
There is a fine line between a hobby & addiction.

Thank you to all the folks that came close to or lost some sanity in the processes.
I'm just simply trying assemble a jigsaw puzzle with newer hardware incorporated with older intentions. Am also aware that lots of experiments/tests were attempted, but just because some failed, doesn't definitely indicate total failure.
I was never the type to simply "go with flow" without having a good understanding.

Crap !! Maybe I should be paying more attention to that fine line between hobby & obsession ;)
 

lwiz

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Why would the wii designers implement the wbfs if it wasn't meant to be used or gave problems ? And, from what I'm reading/finding, the sd side was always in some form of fat format. I also believe the design was left open to manipulation.

WBFS was not designed by Nintendo, but by scene coder, Waninkoko. It was the first shot at installing games on external drive and implementing a filesystem lightweight enough for fitting in wii memory. Back at the day the understanding of Wii internals and developement tools weren't at the level they are today after several years of finetuning and additional research.

While WBFS did what it promised, it was fiddly - prone to corruption etc. and thus when lightweight enough FAT32 implementation was done, the further development of WBFS stopped, mainly due Wii having access to filesystem easily accessed from computers. The focus on development has shifted from WBFS to other filesystems and the fundamental flaws of WBFS were never corrected as there was no need or drive to do so anymore.

To slightly complicate matters, individual games are still WBFS but the drive they are installed on does not need to be WBFS formatted.
 
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Wiimpathy

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I understand the recommendations, but ...

Just doesn't add up.
Why would the wii designers implement the wbfs if it wasn't meant to be used or gave problems ? And, from what I'm reading/finding, the sd side was always in some form of fat format. I also believe the design was left open to manipulation.
Like all softwares, there are bugs and limitations. The wbfs partition is no exception. Other coders have added an alternative by implementing fat32 wbfs file. That's what we call progress, I guess?
In theory, you can recover a corrupt partition with wit (great tool!) though. I've never tested, it's more convenient to repair/delete bad files with standard fat tools/filemanagers.

The sd side is fat since the 1st day of the hack. Wii usb games loading arrived much later. All homebrews are working with fat, rarely with other formats(ntfs,ext2/3), except media players like wiimc, mplayer and some loaders.

A little chronology, just for fun :

- 2008 February: Twilight Hack 0.1 Alpha released by Team Twiizers. First Wii exploit.
- 2008 April: Homebrew Channel. The door opened to homebrew games & emulators.
- 2008 September: Wii iso loader by Waninkoko leaked. Burned Wii dvd loading.
- 2009 March: USB loader 1.0 by Waninkoko. WBFS format created.
- 2009 October: Configurable USB Loader, fat loading by oggzee.
 

morning_glory

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Thank you for the responses.
I do understand the move to fat & I prefer it too. Working with wbfs partitions on a pc is pain.

I don't want to ruffle anybody's feathers, but I'm impressed by the game compatibilities using wbfs partitions with newer usb sticks. But, I will reconfirm my tests with the corruption issues (if any) that were stated, in due course.

WBFS was not designed by Nintendo, but by scene coder, Waninkoko. It was the first shot at installing games on external drive and implementing a filesystem lightweight enough for fitting in wii memory. Back at the day the understanding of Wii internals and developement tools weren't at the level they are today after several years of finetuning and additional research.
Still learning. Thanks for the info.
Wbfs files beckoned wbfs partition. It makes perfect sense, but not workability wise.
One of the 1st wii hack pioneers. I believe he was outlawed.

A little chronology, just for fun :

- 2008 February: Twilight Hack 0.1 Alpha released by Team Twiizers. First Wii exploit.
- 2008 April: Homebrew Channel. The door opened to homebrew games & emulators.
- 2008 September: Wii iso loader by Waninkoko leaked. Burned Wii dvd loading.
- 2009 March: USB loader 1.0 by Waninkoko. WBFS format created.
- 2009 October: Configurable USB Loader, fat loading by oggzee.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane :)
At my age, it's like deja vu. Thanks for making me feel young again.

I chose the Wasabi dx mod chip. After lurking here at gba for years & seeing the mayhem, I don't think you can blame me. Things changed & got better. Progress ;)

Appreciate all the input. Some of my curiosity was address ed. Thank you :)
 
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morning_glory

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Trials & SOME testing completed.

Had to go back to the roots of WBFS partitioning & it's great (so far).
I'm only referring to usb flash drives & micro sdxc in usb adapters.

Yes, usb hdd with fat32 is the recommended. But, I insisted on the above choices.
Seems the answer was always there. Waninkoko's WBFS partition standard hit the spot.
All the usb flash drives I tried just kept failing. Fat32 (was the good, but), ntfs (big disappointment) & exfat (total fail). All 3 usb loaders were used to test. Too many fails :(

I used WBM to format to wbfs & then added games.
The first use of usb loader gx took a little longer to initialize, but that did get quicker.
A pleasant surprise. 256gb usb flash drive packed to the brim with games & I got 99% of the games to work just using usb loader gx (not the latest vers) & without any setting adjustments. So far, only 1 game has failed (Dead Space), but worked perfectly with usb config. I only managed to test 10-15 games, but more will follow, & yes, I will use the new/latest gx when I get my theories are better organized.

I know I will get crap thrown at me. Using wbfs partition isn't as easy as fat32/ntfs on a pc bla bla bla. I just got agro by walking to the wii to power off & reset, restarting so many times, & did I mention "wearing out the floor" ?
The game play success rate is more with wbfs (in my case). Still referring to usb flash drives & micro sdxc cards in usb adapters.
I also used my 512gb usb flash drive with the same success. Just needed to add more games. Took 8hrs ZZzzzz, but well worth it.

That WBM is a great app & no .net framework. Love it :)
 

morning_glory

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10 more games tested with full success.
Another 50 or so games to go. Then I will need to test the 512gb micro sdxc (in usb adapter). Double the amount of games :(
Will need a sanity check when I get to purchasing 1tb or 2tb usb flash drives.
 

morning_glory

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Holy crap !!!
I've been reading some of the older gba archives, & similar topics got very ugly :(
Just remember that I never intended to judge anybody's opinions. I simply wanted more out of usb flash drives with the wii.

My goals were simple, but just because I couldn't find any references to anybody trying what I did, my enthusiasm was motivated more.
Wimms elaborated, but that went nowhere. I know you tried, buddy & I thank you :)

To confirm my tests won't take much effort. Grab a usb flash drive, the larger the better (I used sandisk 64gb, 256gb & 512gb), format it to wbfs with WBM, copy some wii games (wbfs files) with WBM, & plug it in. I used GX (older version) mainly & had only 1 game fail (so far). Here in Au, we call 'em flash drives = thumb drive, usb sticks.

HDD's are being replaced by SSD technology. I haven't done any investigation as to how the SSD fares with wii game compatibility. I prefer the hdd too, but, as I plan to give my wiis to my grandkids, I just wanted less bulk that's prone to easy damage.

Never my intention to stir the pot, but it seems that dinosaur methods & apps are still useful with newer usb storage methods.
 

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To confirm my tests won't take much effort. Grab a usb flash drive, the larger the better (I used sandisk 64gb, 256gb & 512gb), format it to wbfs with WBM, copy some wii games (wbfs files) with WBM, & plug it in. I used GX (older version) mainly & had only 1 game fail (so far). Here in Au, we call 'em flash drives = thumb drive, usb sticks.
All seems well until a month or several passes and suddenly you have a game storage with nothing salvageable. WBFS corruption isn't instant, and things seem to be well although the game images are corrupted little by little, byte at a time. Games seem to work AOK, but the corruption has already crept in.

Been there long time ago myself and after I got bitten hard, switched over to FAT for good. The real danger here - sorry - is that when someone asks about using WBFS, you reply to the post, recommending it after very little time of testing it yourself. Result being corrupted filesystem sooner or later.

Folks here arent recommending other filesystems because they're newer or shinier - many of us have been there and done that with WBFS and moved on with good reason.
 

morning_glory

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Thank you for the info.
Losing the game data for me is not a problem, but I look forward to the issues you mentioned. I assume the corruption happens because of the sectoring ?

Been there long time ago myself and after I got bitten hard, switched over to FAT for good.
Exactly which fat are you referring to ? Is there a thread addressing those results ?
I want to investigate which fat comes closest to wbfs.
 

lwiz

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Exactly which fat are you referring to ? Is there a thread addressing those results ?
I want to investigate which fat comes closest to wbfs.
FAT32. There should be threads discussing the merits of FAT32 compared to WBFS here still. Lots of "I've lost my WBFS game backup" ones. The underlying technical and design problems of WBFS were never addressed due FAT32 becoming available and being far superior solution.
 

morning_glory

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The underlying technical and design problems of WBFS were never addressed due FAT32 becoming available and being far superior solution.
I noticed, but I thought I may have not looked everywhere.
A post from Wimms ... He tried to explain that wbfs support cannot be removed from any apps. Wbfs structures will always be need (Not exact words).
Then the shit hit the fan, again.

Has anybody tried using older fats (fat, fat12 or fat16) ?
I figure fat16 was used/tried at some stages. Some usb loader have the 2gb split.

I'm not trying to re-invent or re-design the wheel. It seems the road is the issue.
 

lwiz

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I think the thing confusing the issue here is that there are two linked WBFS's. There is the hard drive formatting and then the file format for storing game backups is WBFS which is basically ISO with fluff stripped off from it. Thus supporting WBFS as filetype is still needed for handling the backups.

Older FAT formats have their problems including drive size limitations, 8.3 naming, file size limitations etc.
 

morning_glory

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The WBFS title (partition & game) made it harder to search/google info :(

Was also aware of the earlier FAT16 size & other limitations, but was over-confident that I would find some sort of hack or work-around. Was I wrong :(
Also, I was hoping to find an app to join all the smaller FAT16 partitions to form a single large one. Failure was inevitable :(
Just wish that the WBFS partitioning was further developed.
BTW - I still haven't got any errors or any form of corruption. Testing continues....

I would have liked the option to format FAT32 with 512 Byte Cluster (just to test). At least that comes the closest to WBFS. 1024, just wastes a lot of space, 2048 = Gets better.
Options are there with FAT32 GUI FORMATTER, but large capacity flash drives just don't allow it (512). But, micro SDXC (in usb adapters) do :)

I haven't tried a direct (& only) SD (front of wii) approach yet. Prefer to have wii games on usb & GC on SD card. I guess I will have to dive into the new GX SD features, soon. I know a 512gb SDXC works, but want to try 1tb or 2tb. Too expensive, still :( They'll get cheaper.
I do want to use FAT32. I want to find 3rd party tweaks to enhance wii game compatibility on flash drives.

All-in-all, there seems to be more success with micro SDXC (in usb adapters) with FAT32 & WBFS partition. Flash drives (FAT32/NTFS/ExFAT formats) = Still fail.

Thanks for the response. It really does keep me going :)
 

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Have any attempts been made by trying to use as a "Dynamic Disk" setting ?

Also, making a Flash Drive a "Fixed Drive" from "Removable Drive" (the flip) ?

This is still related only to USB Flash Drives &/or Micro SDXC.
Trying hard to stay with FAT32.
 

morning_glory

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I got nowhere with my hunt :(

The only app that comes close to doing the "Flip Bit" is old & fails with usb3.x. Lexar flip.

I still want to try it. Why ? ....
Older usb2 were smaller in capacity size & also were able to flip the bit. Then came larger capacity usb flash drives & they were set to 1 (Removable).
By changing the bit to 0 (zero) & making a basic disk "should" solve the usb flash drive with wii games issues. Hope it's clear where I'm heading with this ?

Issues I'm having is finding newer apps/methods of changing this bit :

Even if I succeed flipping the bit, will it be permanent after a FAT32 partition/s, or ???
The Lexar flip app shows my 256gb as 895mb, but once make the flip bit, then partition to FAT32/NTFS, & make/join the smaller partitions back to full size (256gb). Just trying to be logical & implement the old-school methods to newer tech BS limitations.

I worry that the flip may damage my flash drives & brick them.
I don't want a usb-win filter/driver (only works when in win). It needs to be a internal usb controller mod app/method. So it's the flash drive that is changed/altered.

Just need that one bit changed to 0 (zero) & make it a "basic" disk (not removable).

Anybody attempted any of my weird ideas ?
Hey, I'm trying hard to work with FAT32/NTFS partitions on flash drives. Just how long will HDDs be available ? SSDs will overtake HHDs, but that's another form of flash drive/micro sdxc.
So far, WBFS partition is going strong & trouble free. Will patiently keep testing for the corruption errors.
 

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