Hacking 3ds 1-1 flashcart question

[thealeks]

Before you flame me, i posted this in awesome hacking theories, and got no response. And i am well aware crown3ds is fake so dont bother bringing it up. This is purely hypothetical.

I read somewhere around here, about a theory of creating a 1-1 flashcart that would essentially act as a retail cart, containing only 1 rom at a time. Now they were saying the problem with creating such a cart was memory size, as different roms require different size memory. So wouldn't the solution, then, be to make it have enough memory for the biggest rom's requirements and then bundle(or provide a download for ) a program that would write the appropriate sized partition for whatever rom your installing and then write the rom to that partition?

 

[DiscostewSM]

Before you flame me, i posted this in awesome hacking theories, and got no response. And i am well aware crown3ds is fake so dont bother bringing it up. This is purely hypothetical.

I read somewhere around here, about a theory of creating a 1-1 flashcart that would essentially act as a retail cart, containing only 1 rom at a time. Now they were saying the problem with creating such a cart was memory size, as different roms require different size memory. So wouldn't the solution, then, be to make it have enough memory for the biggest rom's requirements and then bundle(or provide a download for ) a program that would write the appropriate sized partition for whatever rom your installing and then write the rom to that partition?

If it were that simple, it would have been done by now.

 

[Rydian]

It's not just ROM size. Anti-piracy checks can determine all sorts of stuff about the cart, they even did this crap back in the NES and SNES days to stop games from working on cart copiers and such.

I mean, shit, just look at Earthbound's anti-piracy.
http://starmen.net/mother2/gameinfo/antipiracy/
That shit's crazy, and that's back on the SNES. The 3DS can do all sorts of other shit on top of that.

Check this site for more fun examples.
http://tcrf.net/Category:Anti-Piracy

 

[thealeks]

It's not just ROM size. Anti-piracy checks can determine all sorts of stuff about the cart, they even did this crap back in the NES and SNES days to stop games from working on cart copiers and such.

I mean, shit, just look at Earthbound's anti-piracy.
http://starmen.net/mother2/gameinfo/antipiracy/
That shit's crazy, and that's back on the SNES. The 3DS can do all sorts of other shit on top of that.

Check this site for more fun examples.
http://tcrf.net/Category:Anti-Piracy

I figured it'd be something like that. God knows I'M not gonna be the one to crack open the 3ds hacking scene lol

 

[pasc]

Besides, what was stated in this topic was merely the GBA beginning days (probably also goes for NES, GB SNES etc. ), back then you had exactly that:

- Flashcard with fixed space
- writer USB Gate/Cable
- software.

Howver the difference is that the software of the GBA was easily cracked, executing code on the 3DS is a different story.

Those dumps that float around all miss the Signature that makes the 3DS acknowledge them as "verfied", if someone could crack that it'd be the key.

 

[thealeks]

wouldn't a dump of a game cart include all of the contents? it seems that as long as we could make the cart be read as having the proper memory size for the rom stored on it, it should be read as a commercial cart, obviously somebody would have to make the cart, which is where the difficulty begins, then theres whether the memory size would be read from the memory's total size or the size of the partition. but the only thing different than your list is the flash cart with fixed space, which if i recall, the gameboy had different size carts. thats why the flash carts for it were of the biggest size, i guess it didnt check the memory size before executing the code.

 

[Rydian]

So then people would just be buying cheaper clone versions of individual games...

 

[Vampire Lied]

That's a terrible thought. Bootlegging is way worse than piracy imho. Giving someone unrelated to development 100% of the profit is ridiculous.
*EDIT:* Mid-way through that sentence I realized "derp that's what happens if you buy used anyway" Even so, bootlegging just seems more wrong than piracy, and you can never trust the source. Obtaining a 1-1 flashcart is about as far off as obtaining a flashcart that supports multiple roms at this point. If matching cart size was the only issue, we would already have flashcart/bootlegs floating around.

 

[Rydian]

I have two theories here.

As far as there being no 3DS bootlegs for sale even though copies have been shown to technically work, my theory is the hardware is too expensive for them to make any decent profit off of. Bootlegs are often sold for less than a retail copy to convince people to buy them, the hardware needed to contain and make a copy usable for the 3DS might be too expensive for them to get any decent profit margin off of. It's not to the point of DS cart hardware, where original R4 units can be found for $3 on sale, retail to end users.

As far as Crown3DS wanting to swap out multiple games, I mentioned that Nintendo carts have been shown to have copy-protection for ages now. In the old days they could just patch out the issues, but if you modify a 3DS ROM the signatures/hashes will be invalid, right? Then it won't be run at all.

It's pretty likely Crown3DS (and other potential products) hit those issues.
Who would willingly buy bootleg copies of games for almost retail price?
Who would buy an expensive-ass flash cart that only runs a small number of the oldest games?

Flash cart companies are in it to make money.

 

[thealeks]

As far as Crown3DS wanting to swap out multiple games, I mentioned that Nintendo carts have been shown to have copy-protection for ages now. In the old days they could just patch out the issues, but if you modify a 3DS ROM the signatures/hashes will be invalid, right? Then it won't be run at all.

It's pretty likely Crown3DS (and other potential products) hit those issues.
Who would willingly buy bootleg copies of games for almost retail price?
Who would buy an expensive-ass flash cart that only runs a small number of the oldest games?

Flash cart companies are in it to make money.

actually it would act like a 1-1 copy of the game(but of course the game would be changeable. so the code wouldnt be modified in any way. just copied over. and you wouldnt be buying bootleg copies, it'd be like an r4 that only held one game at a time.

 

[McHaggis]

As far as Crown3DS wanting to swap out multiple games, I mentioned that Nintendo carts have been shown to have copy-protection for ages now. In the old days they could just patch out the issues, but if you modify a 3DS ROM the signatures/hashes will be invalid, right? Then it won't be run at all.

It's pretty likely Crown3DS (and other potential products) hit those issues.
Who would willingly buy bootleg copies of games for almost retail price?
Who would buy an expensive-ass flash cart that only runs a small number of the oldest games?

Flash cart companies are in it to make money.

actually it would act like a 1-1 copy of the game(but of course the game would be changeable. so the code wouldnt be modified in any way. just copied over. and you wouldnt be buying bootleg copies, it'd be like an r4 that only held one game at a time.

The point of Rydian's post was that a flashcard that held clean ROMs probably wouldn't work because of checks performed by the games against the cartridge they're being run on. Many games on the DS did this and had to be patched, but, with the 3DS's strong encryption, patching these checks in 3DS games would be impossible without being able to decrypt and re-sign the game. That's (probably) why Crown 3DS never released any videos showing other games being run.

Decrypting is entirely possible (and may have already been done), but re-signing requires the private key that will probably never be known. Thus, a flashcard, whether 1-1 or not, is much less likely to appear for the 3DS unless exploits can be found.

That's a terrible thought. Bootlegging is way worse than piracy imho. Giving someone unrelated to development 100% of the profit is ridiculous.
*EDIT:* Mid-way through that sentence I realized "derp that's what happens if you buy used anyway" Even so, bootlegging just seems more wrong than piracy, and you can never trust the source. Obtaining a 1-1 flashcart is about as far off as obtaining a flashcart that supports multiple roms at this point. If matching cart size was the only issue, we would already have flashcart/bootlegs floating around.

At least with used copies (not that I endorse buying used), the developer has seen money from each used game sold. With bootlegging, they've only ever seen money from the card that was originally copied.

 

[Vampire Lied]

Agreed. I wasn't trying to say buying used was as bad as bootlegging. If it came off that way, my apologies. I was just stating that devs get no kickback from used, which they should. I buy used myself whenever it is way less than new or new copies are no longer available.

 

[sero]

Agreed. I wasn't trying to say buying used was as bad as bootlegging. If it came off that way, my apologies. I was just stating that devs get no kickback from used, which they should. I buy used myself whenever it is way less than new or new copies are no longer available.

I don't understand the logic behind the idea of producers "deserving" to get some sort of benefit every time a produced item is used. If I buy a used car, should Ford get a couple hundred bucks? If I buy a used house, should I have to track down every construction worker and give them some cash? Of course not.

The inherent value of a video game is based not only on your ability to enjoy it, but its investment potential (however limited). Given the choice between a $50 digital download and a $50 cartridge game, the cartridge game should win out simply because you have the ability to sell it. The value is greater because it does not depreciate to zero the instant you buy it.

 

[Vampire Lied]

You kind of make a good point, but I don't see anything wrong with devs getting a cut of used sales. Especially when a newer $60 game that is traded in to gamestop is then put on the shelf for $55. That's pure profit for gamestop, minus what small amount of store credit you get for it. Of course resale wouldn't be able to give devs a kickback outside of a retail store. (like buying from a person etc.) Anyway, this is getting the thread a bit off track. If you'd like to continue the discussion, feel free to pm me.

 

[totalnoob617]

It's not just ROM size. Anti-piracy checks can determine all sorts of stuff about the cart, they even did this crap back in the NES and SNES days to stop games from working on cart copiers and such.

I mean, shit, just look at Earthbound's anti-piracy.
http://starmen.net/m...nfo/antipiracy/
That shit's crazy, and that's back on the SNES. The 3DS can do all sorts of other shit on top of that.

Check this site for more fun examples.
http://tcrf.net/Category:Anti-Piracy

doesnt it have to do with the header? and will the decrypted fw neimod just did help that?

i had a backup device for my snes , the game doctor from bung, i forge which version but it had the fx chip and the most memors 32mb i think
it could run all the games , but some had to be manually patched ,there was no way to download them from the internet in those days

 

[Rydian]

It's not just ROM size. Anti-piracy checks can determine all sorts of stuff about the cart, they even did this crap back in the NES and SNES days to stop games from working on cart copiers and such.

I mean, shit, just look at Earthbound's anti-piracy.
http://starmen.net/m...nfo/antipiracy/
That shit's crazy, and that's back on the SNES. The 3DS can do all sorts of other shit on top of that.

Check this site for more fun examples.
http://tcrf.net/Category:Anti-Piracy

doesnt it have to do with the header? and will the decrypted fw neimod just did help that?

i had a backup device for my snes , the game doctor from bung, i forge which version but it had the fx chip and the most memors 32mb i think
it could run all the games , but some had to be manually patched ,there was no way to download them from the internet in those days

You can't patch 3DS games, that's the problem. If you modify the ROM then the hashes/sigs become invalid and the system won't run it.