• Friendly reminder: The politics section is a place where a lot of differing opinions are raised. You may not like what you read here but it is someone's opinion. As long as the debate is respectful you are free to debate freely. Also, the views and opinions expressed by forum members may not necessarily reflect those of GBAtemp. Messages that the staff consider offensive or inflammatory may be removed in line with existing forum terms and conditions.

Puberty-Blockers, Vision Loss & Closed Gender Identity Clinic for Children (Brandon Showalter; Mark Reynolds; ZeroHedge) [Three Articles]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Creamu

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
1,801
Trophies
0
XP
2,286
Country
Zimbabwe
CORONAVIRUS-VACCINES-BOOSTERS-1200x800-700x420.jpg


'NHS to launch network of local clinics amid a doubling in demand

The United Kingdom National Health Service is closing the gender identity clinic at the Tavistock and Portman Trust, the London-based facility whose practices have faced considerable scrutiny in recent years.

[...]

Cass stated in a July 19 report that there was a need to move away from the sole provider model and develop services regionally to meet the needs of patients. The report was also critical of using experimental puberty-blocking drugs to treat gender dysphoria.

"The rationale for use of puberty blockers at Tanner Stage 2 of development was based on data that demonstrated that children, particularly birth-registered boys who had early gender incongruence, were unlikely to desist once they reached early puberty; this rationale does not necessarily apply to later-presenting young people, including the predominant referral group of birth-registered girls," Cass wrote.

[...]

"We do not fully understand the role of adolescent sex hormones in driving the development of both sexuality and gender identity through the early teen years, so by extension we cannot be sure about the impact of stopping these hormone surges on psychosexual and gender maturation. We therefore have no way of knowing whether, rather than buying time to make a decision, puberty blockers may disrupt that decision-making process."

[...]

The Cass review also detailed that the evidence base for using drugs to arrest natural puberty in gender dysphoric children is poor and highlighted their impact on brain development, noting that "brain maturation may be temporarily or permanently disrupted by puberty blockers, which could have significant impact on the ability to make complex risk-laden decisions, as well as possible longer-term neuropsychological consequences."

In February 2021, research published in PLOS One revealed that the use of blockers notably stunted bone growth in children who were given puberty blockers. The study followed a cohort of 44 youth who had undergone the experimental treatment in the U.K.'s NHS gender clinic.

"In both cases (height and bone strength) there was some growth but less than would be expected during those years without hormonal suppression," the research found, according to NHS. The research was published nine years after the study began. Of the 44 children that the study tracked, 43 went on to take cross-sex hormones.

The Tavistock clinic was also the subject of considerable scrutiny in 2020 when Keira Bell, a young woman in her 20s, alleged in a judicial review that she was incapable of understanding the risks of puberty blockers when she was treated at the clinic as a teenager with mental health issues. Bell went on to take opposite sex hormones and underwent a cosmetic double mastectomy only to later regret those decisions and detransition.

[...]'

-Brandon Showalter

Brandon-1.jpg


https://www.christianpost.com/news/...istock-gender-clinic-after-formal-review.html

'[...]

Keira Bell, who was prescribed puberty blockers at the centre when she was just 16 years old but later stopped the transition process, welcomed the decision.

Now 25, she said: “I’m over the moon. It means many children will be saved from going down that path that I went down.

“It’s a long time coming.”

She added: “I thought that that was the way I needed to go (transition) but really I just needed some support... mental health support and some therapy really.”

She said medics at the Tavistock moved to prescribe puberty blockers for troubled youngsters far too quickly and instead should have given mental health support first.

“We are talking about children here, medicalising children based on the fact that you know they feel a certain way,” she said.

She added that children in that position should have been offered mental health support, rather than puberty blockers, in order to get them back to “reality”.

“They are messing with children’s lives,” she added. “People at the Tavistock should be ashamed.”

[...]'

-Mark Reynolds

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1647475/tavistock-centre-child-gender-identity-transgender-nhs

'The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently added a warning to the labeling of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonists—also referred to by many as puberty blockers—saying the drugs may cause a series of symptoms in children that include headaches, pressure buildup around the brain, and vision loss.'

-ZeroHedge

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/f...ss-children?ref=biztoc.com&curator=biztoc.com
 
Last edited by Creamu,

Creamu

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
1,801
Trophies
0
XP
2,286
Country
Zimbabwe
May I inquire how long these copy pasta threads will keep going ?
They are selected quotes and in alot of cases collages of multiple articles carefully selected and put together and therefore transformative.
I'd suspect you summarizing em in your own words would be...
I would prefer this approach, but the amount of pilpul that comes with that is not worth it unfortunatly.
far more interesting
Depends. Reading direct quotes from people on the ground adds a nice dimension, as well as getting different viewpoints from a variety of journalists.
Future-Mod-dono
Yes, it is my dream to become mod. Fortunatly I had the highest votecount (amoung others; excluding GodReborn who declined the suggestion) in the latest poll, as well a staff endoursment for the politics section.

If you think you have a better approach for creating politics and news content, I'd glady read it. Thanks for the suggestion.

'Tavistock, the only gender and sex change clinic in Britain, went from treating around 130 child patients per year in 2010 to treating nearly 2400 in 2021. In fact, the clinic was facing overwhelming demand for services by the time it was finally shut down, and numerous proponents of sex change treatment for children argued that MORE clinics like Tavistock would soon be needed.

[...]


The controversy around Tavistock deepened in 2020, when the center was taken to court by Keira Bell, a former patient, who argued she had been too young to consent to the medical treatment overseen by the GIDS that began her female-to-male transition as a teenager. Bell won her initial case but it was overturned on appeal, with the court of appeal reaffirming the principle of Gillick competence that “it was for doctors and not judges to decide on the capacity of a person under 16 to consent to medical treatment.”

[...]

Tavistock's shut down reaffirms the growing concerns among the public about the deceptive nature of gender ideology and the fact that children with no legitimate understanding of sexuality have been mutilated chemically and physically in the name of political cultism rather than personal health. It has been recently revealed that the clinic is also facing a massive lawsuit of at least 1000 families of former patients and the list is expanding daily.

Much like abortion doctors, gender affirmation doctors seem much more preoccupied with political activism than fulfilling the principles and demands of their own profession. Beyond the temptation for such doctors to exploit unwitting and underage patients in order to make large sums of money through government grants and insurance payoffs, there is also the temptation to artificially inflate the demand for sex change services as a way to fabricate “proof” that gender politics are as pervasive as they assert.

[...]'

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/t...-clinic-kids-shut-down-and-sued-1000-families
 
Last edited by Creamu,

KitChan

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
154
Trophies
0
Age
30
Location
あなたの心
XP
467
Country
New Zealand
Most detrans stories I hear about tend to be women.

Can't help but wonder if these are girls who got bulied for being a tomboy, took some feminist setiment about being a woman sucks too seriously, were influenced by media trating trans like it's a trendy thing (remember the mid 00s when everyone was hyping up aspergers and diagnosing every person they see with it?) or something.
 

Creamu

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
1,801
Trophies
0
XP
2,286
Country
Zimbabwe
Most detrans stories I hear about tend to be women.

Can't help but wonder if these are girls who got bulied for being a tomboy, took some feminist setiment about being a woman sucks too seriously, were influenced by media trating trans like it's a trendy thing (remember the mid 00s when everyone was hyping up aspergers and diagnosing every person they see with it?) or something.
Interesting. Last time I checked on this it was mostly autistic boys transitioning. I guess as the application of puberty blockers gets more normalized it becomes more desirable to girls as a social signal and as it wears off and the reality kicks in they detrans?
 
Last edited by Creamu,

LainaGabranth

Objectively the most infuriating woman ever
Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2022
Messages
1,347
Trophies
1
Age
55
Location
Sneed's Feed and Seed
XP
2,501
Country
United States


Just saying, the science on puberty blockers and HRT being safe and effective has been solved, it's objectively a positive and the only evidence contrary to it says at best it may not be effective in every situation, but for the majority, it remains as such.
 

Creamu

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
1,801
Trophies
0
XP
2,286
Country
Zimbabwe


Just saying, the science on puberty blockers and HRT being safe and effective has been solved, it's objectively a positive and the only evidence contrary to it says at best it may not be effective in every situation, but for the majority, it remains as such.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you give children puberty blockers, you are putting them out of the genepool or at least disadvantaging them on the evolutionary field. This was once quite an unpopular position. You are essentially selecting out people who are easily suggestable at an early age and select for people who are uneffected by such suggestions. I mean it's not the worst thing to select for but its quite brutal.
 

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
you are putting them out of the genepool or at least disadvantaging them on the evolutionary field.
Generally speaking, puberty blockers don't affect fertility, and even if they did, most people who would use them would still use them, and there'd still be a compelling case to use them.

You are essentially selecting out people who are easily suggestable
Suggesting trans youth who use puberty blockers are just "easily suggestable" is transphobic horseshit, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
 

City

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Messages
387
Trophies
0
XP
701
Country
Antarctica
Trans rights are human rights.


This being said, please keep kids out of this stuff. They can make a choice when they're adults.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HalfScoper

Creamu

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
1,801
Trophies
0
XP
2,286
Country
Zimbabwe
Generally speaking, puberty blockers don't affect fertility,
So a child given puberty blockers can reproduce later in life if the treatment is continued?
and even if they did, most people who would use them would still use them, and there'd still be a compelling case to use them.
I wouldn't feel comfortable making that call for a child.
Suggesting trans youth who use puberty blockers are just "easily suggestable" is transphobic horseshit, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Please apply yourself. Amoung those children you will certainly have this type.
 

KitChan

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
154
Trophies
0
Age
30
Location
あなたの心
XP
467
Country
New Zealand
I think it's important that the people who need them have access to them,
But I think it's also important that they're administered with scrutiny and doctors look into what the signs are that it might be the wrong treatment for someone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dragon91Nippon

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
So a child given puberty blockers can reproduce later in life if the treatment is continued?
If a child on puberty blockers discontinues them, they'll likely be as fertile as though they had never taken them.

If we're talking about continuing puberty blockers into adulthood and/or other treatments, then we are talking about adults making informed medical decisions regarding what's right for them, and it's irrelevant to the topic.

I wouldn't feel comfortable making that call for a child.
The effects of puberty blockers are reversible, so it's wholly irrelevant to the topic and you don't need to hurt your brain over it.

However, hypothetically, a sterile trans adult is better than a dead trans kid.

Please apply yourself. Amoung those children you will certainly have this type.
What?
 

Creamu

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
1,801
Trophies
0
XP
2,286
Country
Zimbabwe
If a child on puberty blockers discontinues them, they'll likely be as fertile as though they had never taken them.
Okay, this is an evolutionary disadvantage.
The effects of puberty blockers are reversible, so it's wholly irrelevant to the topic and you don't need to hurt your brain over it.
You said they are likely to be fertile as though they have never taken them.
 

Creamu

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
1,801
Trophies
0
XP
2,286
Country
Zimbabwe
The effects of puberty blockers are reversible, so I don't know what you're going on about.
My point is that you are putting evolutionary pressure on developing humans and that this essentially is an eugenic project.
 

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
My point is that you are putting evolutionary pressure on developing humans and that this essentially is an eugenic project.
1. It's reversible by merely discontinuing puberty blockers if you no longer wish to take them, so no.
2. We are talking about people doing something completely voluntary. I don't want anybody to take puberty blockers who doesn't want to.

Adults making informed medical decisions is not eugenics. You should learn what eugenics is.

Isn't your dick going to be extremely small?
If puberty blockers aren't discontinued, then yeah, but if you were born with a penis and move from puberty blockers to cross sex hormones, you probably don't want your penis to begin with.

Your dick size is likely unaffected if you discontinue puberty blockers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xzi

Creamu

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
1,801
Trophies
0
XP
2,286
Country
Zimbabwe
1. It's reversible by merely discontinuing puberty blockers if you no longer wish to take them, so no.
Doesn't mean it's not evolutionary pressure medically applied to children.
2. We are talking about people doing something completely voluntary.
We are talking about children.
Adults making informed medical decisions is not eugenics. You should learn what eugenics is.
It certainly can be. Eugenics are deliberate steps to genetically select a populus.
If puberty blockers aren't discontinued, then yeah, but if you were born with a penis and move from puberty blockers to cross sex hormones, you probably don't want your penis to begin with.
Okay, but can you see how you completly exclude people from the genepool by giving them this opiton.
 

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
Doesn't mean it's not evolutionary pressure medically applied to children.
Nothing about a trans kid's decision to take puberty blockers itself is likely to decrease fertility.

We are talking about children.
We are talking about children making the wholly inconsequential decision to take puberty blockers, the effects of which can be reversed by discontinuing them. Oppositely, a trans kid who doesn't take puberty blockers may have significantly greater difficulties as an adult, and trans suicides are higher among those who can't get access to health care like puberty blockers.

Let's not beat around the bush. A person against trans healthcare is a person who is for trans youth suicide.

It certainly can be. Eugenics are deliberate steps to genetically select a populus.
That isn't what puberty blockers do. You could talk about cross hormone therapy doing that, but a.) that's something an adult does, and b.) it's a completely voluntary and informed medical decisions.

Again, no eugenics present. Learn what eugenics is.

Okay, but can you see how you completly exclude people from the genepool by giving them this opiton.
See above.
 

Deleted member 586536

Returned shipping and mailing
Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Messages
1,050
Trophies
1
XP
2,024
This being said, please keep kids out of this stuff. They can make a choice when they're adults.
except no they can't wait that long.
Puberty does permanent changes to the body, meaning it can worsen the disphoria. Most "kids" figure it out by 12 that they are not what they were assigned at birth.
Puberty blockers delay it as a stop gap. Using that gap of time to decide if things need to be done.

by 16 roughly (with blockers still present) then doctors approve of hormones (with parents consent and after plenty of checks with other medical professionals, such as therapists)

Because you cannot undo widening of the hips, or broadening of shoulders. Those things can't be undone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lacius
Status
Not open for further replies.

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2: Nut on the hill