What do you think of natural health?

Deleted User · Jul 4, 2020

Remember to keep the discussion civil.

What do you think of natural health, and more importantly, why?

To avoid biasing the comments I will withhold my personal opinion for now.

Some sub-topics to get the discussion started:

- Organic food
- Exercise
- Meditation
- Vaccinations
- Genetic modification
- Pollution
- Doctors
- Diets
- Veganism
- Paleo
- Gluten
- Red meat
- Raw milk
- Fats
- Soy
- Probiotics
- Alcohol

Tom Bombadildo · Jul 4, 2020

Easy.

- Organic food: Basically no real scientific evidence that organic foods are actually any better for you than non-organic/GMOs.

- Exercise: Good for you, duh.

- Meditation: Helpful for people who are mentally stressed to just kind of chill. Not for everyone, and not some kind of "miracle cure" for anything.

- Vaccinations: Good for you. Anyone who says/practices any different is a moron and I will immediately lose all respect for them (not including people who are immunocompromised and can't get vaccinated)

- Genetic modification: Not enough super long-term information to prove whether it's "bad" or good for you, but the research we have (going back some 50+ years I believe) has shown absolutely 0 negative effects of GMOs vs "organic" food whatsoever. The problem with GMOs, however, are the corporations that own the rights to them (like Monsanto, fuck them), not the GMOs themselves. Same thing as "selective breeding", just more scientific.

- Pollution: Bad duh.

- Doctors: Properly trained, licensed = good, duh.

- Diets: Fad diets don't do anything, but "dieting" in the sense that you limit the amount of particular nutrients you eat is good.

- Veganism: Not "natural" like vegans try to claim, but fine so long as you're not shoving your beliefs onto others (pets included) and you properly obtain all the vitamins and nutrients your body would normally get from things like meat/eggs etc etc.

- Paleo: Same as veganism, fine so long as you're not shoving your beliefs onto others and obtain proper nutrients at the same time.

- Gluten: Fine if your body can tolerate it. Otherwise, same as veganism.

- Red meat: Fine, so long as you're not eating a ton of it. Moderation is key.

- Raw milk: Don't drink unpasteurized milk, that's dumb, you will get sick eventually.

- Fats: You need these to survive, but again moderation is key.

- Soy: Nothing wrong with soy, but again same as veganism.

- Probiotics: Good for you? It's natural bacteria that's meant to help digestion and keep your digestive track healthy. Is this something people actually debate?

- Alcohol: Generally speaking, fine so long as you follow "light drinking" protocols (basically one drink a day). Anything more has been shown to increase health risks. I don't drink at all, personally.

FAST6191 · Jul 4, 2020

Most of what Tom Bombadildo said, though I will usually skip soy (tastes like shit, and probably not great for males to have too much of it) and my history with probiotics usually ends with "well I would normally eat some muesli to do a bowel cleanse but I guess...", though I am keeping a very close eye on the microbiome studies.
Likewise on veganism (which is hardly the strictest or most kind to the environment out there -- see something like the Jain diet or Rastafari diets) then it makes it a pain to cook for you if you are coming round mine (most of what I do revolves around meat, honey and milk/cheese, and all the substitutes I have ever tried have been horrifically expensive and don't taste as nice as the former -- the nice tasting stuff being a rather more recent invention as well save for basically just vegetables type products). Also I have seen a healthy long term vegan, however it was an awful lot of effort on their part and rare as an overall percentage of the population. Long term health vegetarians... nothing unusual at all.

Diets in general. I reckon 95% of the benefits to any of them come from having the person actually get some decent ingredients and pay attention to what they are shovelling in compared to the standard of buy off the shelf preprepared rubbish (at considerable expense no less) and gobble it down.

In the end though I think the Tim Minchin quote of
"Do you know what they call 'alternative medicine' that's been proved to work? Medicine."

nashismo · Jul 9, 2020

I suffer from migraines, chronic sinusitis, post nasal dripping and apnea at night (because of it).

NOTHING has ever worked for me, all doctors have failed me. BUT I live in Chile and the herbs from indigenous people, bitter as hell boiled herbs, have helped me a lot. In fact I have fixed 100% my acid reflux problems, or heart burn whatever you call it, thanks to these bitter herbs.

The herbs I am taking are mostly bitter hebrs from the ancient trees here.

Believe me when I say I have tried everything and ironically these herbs have been the best thing. I have even heard people healing themselves from stomach cancers with these herbs I am taking. I wouldn´t be surprised.

subcon959 · Jul 9, 2020

The latest JRE at time of posting pertains to this topic quite nicely..

Deleted User · Jul 10, 2020

My views are pretty close to Tom Bombadildo's so I will only mention the points where our opinions differ.

- Mediation: I think everyone who does not have ADD or ADHD should meditate. It's not a magic cure all but is a healthy habit.

- Vaccinations: Everyone who does not have a professionally diagnosed exemption should get vaccinated according to the recommended schedule. The eventual coronavirus vaccine complicates things.

He [William Schaffner, a professor in the division of preventive medicine and infectious disease at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee] sees three groups emerging when a vaccine does become available.

“There will be people who will immediately line up just as they lined up their children for the Salk vaccine in the polio days. They will trust the science, they will be optimistic," he said. "Then there will be others that will hang back and let this play out a little bit before they roll up their sleeves.”

The final group are already strongly skeptical of vaccines and will actively push back against them.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...microchip-conspiracy-theory-false/3146133001/

I'm one of the people who intends to wait and observe then get vaccinated.

- Diets: Depends on the diet. Don't eliminate food groups. Don't megadose on anything either.

- Paleo: Don't do paleo because it eliminates carbohydrates.

- Red meat: Eating unprocessed red meat 3 meals a day is fine. Limit your consumption of processed meats.

- Raw milk: I will drink raw milk when it's available. I wont drink it very often because it's expensive. It should be legal with warnings on the bottle and strict safety inspections.

- Fats: Limit your consumption of trans-fats.

- Soy: Only consume small quantities of fermented soy.

FAST6191 said:
Most of what Tom Bombadildo said, though I will usually skip soy (tastes like shit, and probably not great for males to have too much of it) and my history with probiotics usually ends with "well I would normally eat some muesli to do a bowel cleanse but I guess...", though I am keeping a very close eye on the microbiome studies.
Likewise on veganism (which is hardly the strictest or most kind to the environment out there -- see something like the Jain diet or Rastafari diets) then it makes it a pain to cook for you if you are coming round mine (most of what I do revolves around meat, honey and milk/cheese, and all the substitutes I have ever tried have been horrifically expensive and don't taste as nice as the former -- the nice tasting stuff being a rather more recent invention as well save for basically just vegetables type products). Also I have seen a healthy long term vegan, however it was an awful lot of effort on their part and rare as an overall percentage of the population. Long term health vegetarians... nothing unusual at all.

Diets in general. I reckon 95% of the benefits to any of them come from having the person actually get some decent ingredients and pay attention to what they are shovelling in compared to the standard of buy off the shelf preprepared rubbish (at considerable expense no less) and gobble it down.

In the end though I think the Tim Minchin quote of
"Do you know what they call 'alternative medicine' that's been proved to work? Medicine."

I think veganism is the best diet for the environment. Everyone should avoid unethically raised meat. I'm not willing to go vegan myself because I consider it extremist and impractical. I am willing to limit my consumption of animal products.

nashismo said:
I suffer from migraines, chronic sinusitis, post nasal dripping and apnea at night (because of it).

NOTHING has ever worked for me, all doctors have failed me. BUT I live in Chile and the herbs from indigenous people, bitter as hell boiled herbs, have helped me a lot. In fact I have fixed 100% my acid reflux problems, or heart burn whatever you call it, thanks to these bitter herbs.

The herbs I am taking are mostly bitter hebrs from the ancient trees here.

Believe me when I say I have tried everything and ironically these herbs have been the best thing. I have even heard people healing themselves from stomach cancers with these herbs I am taking. I wouldn´t be surprised.

If it works for you then keep doing it. Provided you aren't doing something dangerous like avoiding chemotherapy in favour of anti-cancer herbs you can take traditional remedies.

MohammedQ8 · Jul 10, 2020

Hi can diabetic people do vegan ?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

nashismo said:
I suffer from migraines, chronic sinusitis, post nasal dripping and apnea at night (because of it).

NOTHING has ever worked for me, all doctors have failed me. BUT I live in Chile and the herbs from indigenous people, bitter as hell boiled herbs, have helped me a lot. In fact I have fixed 100% my acid reflux problems, or heart burn whatever you call it, thanks to these bitter herbs.

The herbs I am taking are mostly bitter hebrs from the ancient trees here.

Believe me when I say I have tried everything and ironically these herbs have been the best thing. I have even heard people healing themselves from stomach cancers with these herbs I am taking. I wouldn´t be surprised.

What did you use ? I want to buy some hehe

spectral · Jul 10, 2020

Pretty much agree with Tom. A lot of people are too ready too group everything together. Natural = good/bad,etc. There are natural remedies that are exceptionally effective, others that are completely useless. Same goes for things like genetic modification. Well researched and done properly it can be a good thing. On the other hand, done poorly it could be a disaster.

Pipistrele · Jul 10, 2020

Mohammed2935 said:
Hi can diabetic people do vegan ?

Sure! As long as you keep your diet balanced and don't deprive yourself of necessary nutrients, you should be good to go (which goes for every vegan regardless of whether they have diabetes or not). Make sure to read some guides on the matter and ask people within vegan communities about it, they'll show you the ropes.

nashismo · Jul 10, 2020

Mohammed2935 said:
Hi can diabetic people do vegan ?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

What did you use ? I want to buy some hehe

It is a mix of bitter herbs called "Monte Santo" that translate to Saint Mountain. Doesn't matter the name though, it contains: boldo, poleo, salvia, bailahuén, menta, eucaliptus, matico, canela, cedrón, paico, platero, savinilla, sauco, peumo, sanguinaria, zarzaparrilla y ruda.

https://www.saludtotal.cl/producto/montesanto/

FAST6191 · Jul 10, 2020

koohiiwonomimasu69 said:
I think veganism is the best diet for the environment. Everyone should avoid unethically raised meat. I'm not willing to go vegan myself because I consider it extremist and impractical. I am willing to limit my consumption of animal products.

I would put some of the more modern takes on the Rastafari and Jain diets as less environmentally impactful (usual line is nothing that takes a life -- think can't dig up a potato or grow a plant to cut it down but can pick an apple or a cherry).
Similarly a lot of vegan stuff is loaded up nicely with palm oil and whether you clear a forest to raise cattle or mess with one for palm oil you have much the same effects in the end.

Mohammed2935 said:
Hi can diabetic people do vegan ?

Diabetes (save perhaps type 3 but let's not go there right now) has to do with the ability to regulate blood sugar. Basic sugar (whether you have to consume it or limit it) does not bother that, though honey is not allowed (animal product and all that).
However I will note many vegan products will load up on salt, fat and sugar to taste nice, and the vegan diet is really hard* to keep balanced and nutritious in the long term (even more so if you don't want to do supplements) and most long term diabetics have troubles with diet to begin with. To that end know what you are doing if you do go down that path, and as most diabetics are sort of used to feeling awful and run down you also lack that warning sign.

*see essential amino acids, animal products being among the best sources of them (don't have to eat meat but cheese, milk, eggs and the like then tending to be where you look to make up the balance. You can do it from various other sources, some nuts and the like but you have to know what you are doing.

What do you think of natural health?

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