Xbox's Phil Spencer discusses toxicity in gaming and how to combat it

FAST6191 · May 22, 2019

Dagosty said:
Dont bother Phil, the toxicity is inevitable it will always be available on internet, like for example on this tread is full of ponies that felt offended by your words because they are native toxic trolls, its in their blood.

A line I often bring up in such discussions is the game makes the community. If your game has small teams where one person can tank a match by incompetence (especially if competence is only achieved by knowing the secrets of the game rather than just being able to play and figuring it out), and having nothing permanent beyond a level and score card then you are going to get elitism and all that goes with it (see also why DOTA/MOBA stuff is full of elitist idiots), make it such that player counts on a team don't matter, scores are determined individually and if a player's only contribution is to draw a bit of fire from another player that knows what to do then you get people trying to help and not getting yelled at.

Anyway I am not a fan of Microsoft's policy of making their rules a conversation. I can see why they do but it makes analysis a bit harder.
Mind you

Be yourself, but not at the expense of others

Xbox Live is your gaming network, but it’s everyone else’s too. We encourage showing off what makes you unique and awesome, but it’s not cool to post something that keeps others from having positive experiences. We aspire to a community where gaming can be enjoyed by all. Problematic content just gets in the way. If you’re looking for a place on the internet to be overly edgy or get that rise out of people, Xbox isn’t the place for you.
For example don't
Upload a gamerpic that shows real-life graphic violence
Make provocative religious comments in your profile
Name a club after a highly controversial figure
Send someone a picture that’s meant to shock or disgust
Use your activity feed as a platform to promote controversial politics
Upload a club profile pic that’s similar to imagery used by hate groups

Because that is in any way not prone to overzealous mods and oddities -- I don't know if people have been watching the fun and games with the SPLC of late and places occasionally backing off following some rather suspect calls.

Make stuff that’s suitable for all audiences

People from all over the world play on Xbox Live, and we understand that people from different backgrounds have diverse perspectives about mature and adult topics. But because Xbox Live must be friendly and accessible to everyone, this isn't the appropriate place for sexual content. Keep your posts and messages suitable for all audiences to help keep this a welcoming place for all.
For example don't
Upload screenshots or game clips that include mature sexual content
Use a custom gamerpic that contains nudity
Send lewd messages to other players
Share pictures that may be considered distasteful or inappropriate

They’ll see what you did there

Sometimes something seemingly harmless can actually reference something inappropriate, when looked at a certain way. Everyone appreciates a good joke, but if your content is designed to trick others into thinking they’re reading or seeing something inappropriate, we’ll have to treat it that way.
For example don't
Frame a custom gamerpic to make it look like something inappropriate
Choose a gamertag that includes an inappropriate play on words
Use double entendres or phrases with inappropriate dual meanings in your profile

So ultra sanitised and boring seems to be what they are going in for. Didn't really expect anything else but OK. Back to the PC and hacker driven stuff it is.

Technicmaster0 · May 22, 2019

erikas said:
How about tackling some actual issues, like the irrelevance of xbox.

That would probably mean more exclusive titles for xbox, so please no.

erikas · May 22, 2019

Technicmaster0 said:
That would probably mean more exclusive titles for xbox, so please no.

They could make the next xbox a living room optimized pc that can run windows software. Think of some other ways to make it appealing to people who already own a pc. If the pc gets all the benefits of xbox, xbox should have at least the software benefits of a pc. It could be like to a mac pc what ms surface is to the ipad or something. I'm sure there's some way to make it appealing.

Technicmaster0 · May 22, 2019

erikas said:
They could make the next xbox a living room optimized pc that can run windows software. Think of some other ways to make it appealing to people who already own a pc. If the pc gets all the benefits of xbox, xbox should have at least the software benefits of a pc. It could be like to a mac pc what ms surface is to the ipad or something. I'm sure there's some way to make it appealing.

But that's what the current xbox does... well kinda. You can compile and run open source windows (WUP) software if you activate the dev account for 20 or 30 bucks. I'm pretty sure that the big parts of the console gaming community don't care about windows software. They would use a PC or inhome streaming if they did.

netovsk · May 22, 2019

It's a bit contradictory since they push player interaction so hard on Xbox. It's easier to find community posts/mixer streams (just RB/LB from the home screen) than to launch a game since Xbox for some reason hides your game list on a menu inside a menu which is also inside a menu.

erikas said:
They could make the next xbox a living room optimized pc that can run windows software. Think of some other ways to make it appealing to people who already own a pc. If the pc gets all the benefits of xbox, xbox should have at least the software benefits of a pc. It could be like to a mac pc what ms surface is to the ipad or something. I'm sure there's some way to make it appealing.

For a moment there I thought they got rid of thousands of cheaters in PC gaming, almost had me there. For one, if you have the achievement for beating Sekiro, for instance, on Xbox/Playstation it means you earned it and not just "easy moded" your way out of it ( https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/5/18296678/sekiro-easy-mode-mod-pc ).

But even then I think folks at Microsoft are pretty happy as long as you're playing on Windows and offer xbox as an alternative for people on budget or who just prefer console gaming overall.

coppertj · May 22, 2019

So, here's why I think Microsoft released this article. Just recently they announced they finally worked out deals with Sony for cross platform multiplayer. That's awesome however, just after the announcement this article comes out? It's not a coincidence, Xbox has been known to be a toxic community and back in the day xbox would slap people with only 1 week- 1 month(rare) against being toxic, and most of the time people wouldn't even report, (11-13 year old me was completely toxic on MW2 and never got slapped with a ban yet, I know later on a lot of my school friends got banned from halo 4 toxicity and toxicity on Black ops 2 zombies).

To reissue a threat about toxicity in games however is not a coincidence as previously stated, Sony probably told Microsoft to get their communities in order because cross platforms... if there is a rise in toxicity on PS4 after the cross platforms, Sony is going to blame Microsoft and possibly cancel future plans (Sony pulled cross platform support from fortnite in the past so I think they'd pull support if Microsoft was not ready to combine platforms).

kuwanger · May 22, 2019

hamohamo said:
just face the toxicitty. if a 12 year old that claims he had intercourse with your mother pisses you off maybe you should just play offline

That's precisely what MS is afraid of. It's more economical to ban the very toxic people and have the mostly toxic people act a lot less toxic to MS's bottom line. Or they can go the Nintendo route with friends codes. That's not "hardcore" though.

the_randomizer · May 22, 2019

People who are toxic in online gaming situations should all be sterilized and never reproduce.

hamohamo · May 22, 2019

kuwanger said:
That's precisely what MS is afraid of. It's more economical to ban the very toxic people and have the mostly toxic people act a lot less toxic to MS's bottom line. Or they can go the Nintendo route with friends codes. That's not "hardcore" though.

nobody really likes nintendo's online system. I think the only reason most of the melee community went back to melee is because of how damn terrible the online service is.

RPG_FAN128 · May 22, 2019

This is actually pretty interesting. We live in a world with both extremes. (1) Everything offends everybody. Innocent comments can be taken out of context and twisted into hate propaganda. Even respectful standards are viewed with disdain to those who do not have similar standards. And (2) Extremely toxic (and hence worthless human beings) think they can do and say anything their hearts desire without any thought to anyone but themselves. This label is a new one -- for the sake of "competitiveness" ? Nice.

I don't really play online, but when I do it is with people I actually know IRL. You know, people I would actually associate with IRL.

kuwanger · May 22, 2019

hamohamo said:
nobody really likes nintendo's online system.

Personally, I wouldn't know. I've generally avoided the online gaming community since even back in the day (read early 2000s) it could be pretty toxic. I at least understand the intention of Nintendo's friend system, even if I know it's a horribly clunky approach. Whitelists don't work and blacklists don't work, really. It's at least part of the reason I avoid the whole thing.

Viri · May 22, 2019

Dodain47 said:
I think Microsoft should also do something against toxic work environment in gaming Industry.

This. Instead of worrying about people getting sad over being called a faggot by a 12 year old, how about focus on not overworking your employees, and stop with the crunch time. If your game needs to meet a certain deadline, then stop being cheap, and hire some more people on. I feel bad more for over worked game devs, than I do of people crying over a preteen calling them a faggot. Grow a back bone, and use the damn mute button, ya pussy.

FAST6191 · May 23, 2019

Viri said:
This. Instead of worrying about people getting sad over being called a faggot by a 12 year old, how about focus on not overworking your employees, and stop with the crunch time. If your game needs to meet a certain deadline, then stop being cheap, and hire some more people on. I feel bad more for over worked game devs, than I do of people crying over a preteen calling them a faggot. Grow a back bone, and use the damn mute button, ya pussy.

From where I sit "if you can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen" works just as well in both scenarios.

Foxi4 · May 23, 2019

Here's how you combat toxic behaviour in games - you don't. Shit-talking, pranks of all-sorts and "picking on" the weak players have always been integral elements of all sports that are fun to play and watch. If I see a weak player on the enemy team, I will absolutely exploit that weakness, not because I'm an asshat but because it's a legitimate strategy. The enemy team has an obvious weak link and it would be stupid not to exploit that. If it's getting too hot, get out of the kitchen. I am so sick and tired of people complaining about toxicity online, as if it was everyone's job to make the matches fun for them. Here's a thought - get good.

KingVamp · May 23, 2019

FAST6191 said:
"if you can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen"

I guess toxic people will remember that next time, when they are thinking about GBAtemp rules.

TankedThomas · May 23, 2019

spiderman1216 said:
Well it's always best to not be mean towards people in general as I've said if your not an offensive annoying dbag you have really nothing to worry about. I mean it's there private platform and if they decide people being assholes to each other isn't allowed I can't necessarily fault them for that.

All I'm saying is if it allows more people to enjoy playing online and maybe because of the lack of toxicity brings more people into the online fold then may MS, Sony, Nintendo and Steam do their thing.

I mean from their perspectives most people don't play online games to be assholes to each other, they play for competitiveness sure but not vitriol. For some people having to deal with that just means not bothering with it, constantly having to mute people can be a pain in the ass to, then there are people who are fine with it but if it wasn't there they likely wouldn't miss it.

Overall just allowing the toxicity to fester would simply be bad business as most people who play online games wouldn't miss it, care for it, or would rather do without it. People who avoided online because of it well they may join now.

Perhaps, but "being mean" isn't a reason to just start banning people and punishing them. You can mute and block people. Use that instead of having a nanny state (or company) looking out for you. This is how we end up with shitty legislation that makes society into a bigger shithole than it already is.

Free speech is a double-edged sword. If someone wants to exercise their free speech by being a dick to others, they can expect to be blocked and have nobody talking to them or even playing with them. Let them suffer the consequences of being an asshole - no need to start kicking them while they're down.

Tiger21820 · May 23, 2019

Don’t forget: The ESRB said (Did they now?) "Game experience may change during online play"! If players didn't read the disclaimer, they are in no position to complain about anyone being mean to them! If they have a problem, report 'em, and block 'em!

Jordanm64 · May 23, 2019

I miss 2008-2010 Xbox live.

FAST6191 · May 23, 2019

Jordanm64 said:
I miss 2008-2010 Xbox live.

Trying to think what time that would be. Probably around the time I was getting into the 360. We stuck in Rainbow 6 probably the first vegas or whatever the one before was. Had long played the local co-op mode because local co-op is awesome but online was not a common thing.

The amount of 14 year old Birmingham accented your mother jokes that came out of voice chat (this was before they refined voice chat selection for later games on such systems)... Only reason we turned it off in the end was to hear the game and someone sneaking up.

Bladexdsl · May 23, 2019

don't buy or use xbox PROBLEM SOLVED!

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