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The US is now at trade war with Canada

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Taleweaver

Taleweaver

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I know, I know...I'm late to the party. But it seems like this is going to be yet another major USA failure in the making.

I'll try to keep it brief(1). Canada was just "another country" Trump decided to tariff back in April last year. But what's different from most other countries (alas not all) was the constant hinting of Donald Trump that Canada should become a vassal state of the USA. Stupid "jokes" where prime minister Carney is portrayed as 'governor', maps with the US flag over the entire Northern American continent, renaming of lakes, and so on.

This seeped into trade negotiations, which eventually caused Carney to leave the negotiation table because Trump's extortion tactics were too much to bear.
...and so the next trade war seems to have started. Trump raised tariffs, Canada makes counter tariffs.

What's your take on this? Should Canada seek delay for this tariff war? Should they just take it? Are they right to put up tariffs on their own and boycott the USA in e.g. tourism?



(I've written way too much on this and with far too little fact checks. Perhaps I'll put it in a blog one day, but for now the above has to make do...)
 
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Taleweaver said:
I know, I know...I'm late to the party. But it seems like this is going to be yet another major USA failure in the making.

I'll try to keep it brief(1). Canada was just "another country" Trump decided to tariff back in April last year. But what's different from most other countries (alas not all) was the constant hinting of Donald Trump that Canada should become a vassal state of the USA. Stupid "jokes" where prime minister Carney is portrayed as 'governor', maps with the US flag over the entire Northern American continent, renaming of lakes, and so on.

This seeped into trade negotiations, which eventually caused Carney to leave the negotiation table because Trump's extortion tactics were too much to bear.
...and so the next trade war seems to have started. Trump raised tariffs, Canada makes counter tariffs.

What's your take on this? Should Canada seek delay for this tariff war? Should they just take it? Are they right to put up tariffs on their own and boycott the USA in e.g. tourism?



(I've written way too much on this and with far too little fact checks. Perhaps I'll put it in a blog one day, but for now the above has to make do...)
Click to expand...
I hope and believe that it will be one of the ultimate screwups by the Trump administration. For years and years Canada was content with the status quo of having the US as one of the main importers of Canadian goods. Now that this has happened, basically most Canadians are of the same mind that they'll take the effort to sell somewhere else.

The fact that an experienced central banker is at the helm just makes it all the better for timing. Carney is going all over the world making new trade deals in order to reduce the need for the US. He's currently hosting an investment summit in Toronto to get other countries to invest in Canada. There's also talk about Canada being an "associate" member of the EU, which would open the door to easier travel and trade.

The US is extremely intertwined with trade currently, so it wouldn't be a complete replacement. But over time, it will definitely accelerate economic diversification that makes the US less important to Canada.
Post automatically merged:

So this just happened:


Carney EU.png


@Taleweaver I just bought a 3kg tub of Speculoos spread the other day, so we're half way there already.
 
Last edited by titan_tim,
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titan_tim said:
@Taleweaver I just bought a 3kg tub of Speculoos spread the other day, so we're half way there already.
Click to expand...
Oh...I hadn't noticed you were from Canada. But so...thanks! :D

(has to check out imported acorn syrup)
Post automatically merged:

Heh...I should've waited a day longer with this thread. Von Der Leyen reaching a hand to Carney put someone in a bad mood, and that someone now threatens to cut all trade with the EU.

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/othe...-be-hostile-act/ar-AA2cpj7H?ocid=BingNewsSerp

This would be hilarious if there weren't midterms coming up. So with this news ("we're now trading with NOBODY anymore! :D ") it's a level above hilarious. :P

And to think I was on the fence about buying a steam frame. I'll gladly leave it on the table if it means the USA gets stuck with all their stuff! :D
 
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x65943 said:
Let's look at the OECD poverty rate by country

https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/poverty-rate.html

US has higher poverty than Spain, Germany, UK, Canada, France etc etc

View attachment 591164
Click to expand...

For that to mean anything, every country's standard for what constitutes 'poverty' would need to be exactly the same. They're probably not. And regardless, a comparative analysis vs. other countries is non sequitur to the fact that the % of the population in poverty in the USA has fallen for two years in a row, and is at the lowest level ever recorded.

reut.rs/4j68xR9
 
Hanafuda said:
For that to mean anything, every country's standard for what constitutes 'poverty' would need to be exactly the same. They're probably not. And regardless, a comparative analysis vs. other countries is non sequitur to the fact that the % of the population in poverty in the USA has fallen for two years in a row, and is at the lowest level ever recorded.

reut.rs/4j68xR9
Click to expand...
This defines poverty as below 50% the median income

And by that metric the US has higher poverty

It's silly to pretend like the US is making moves when the move is below 1% point - when its poverty is many percentage points above Europe

Edit:
The US is also higher than most of Europe when only looking at extreme poverty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty
 
Hanafuda said:
Ok but every country's median income is not the same, so it's not apples/apples.

Per google, median income in Spain is approx. $28.2k. For the US, about $65k.
Click to expand...
Cost of living changes too

So when the median income is more, so is rent, food, clothing

But let's ignore all that and get back to the fact the US is behind in absolute terms

Poverty defined as those surviving on <$3 a day (period) is higher in US than Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty
 
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Hanafuda said:
US poverty rate is now the lowest it's ever been.
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Though it's an interesting side-discussion, the debate is moot. Let's say you're right and the US is much more wealthy than the EU. What difference would that make, given the behaviour and actions of the president toward Canada? It's like boasting that your store's prices are lower when the shopkeepers's a convicted pedophile. People will still turn away.

Here as well: I certainly get that there'll be EU vs USA comparisons, but for Canada there shouldn't be a 'one or the other' situation.
Trump can bitch all day on how unfair it is that Canada dumps their stuff in the US, but if you start tariffing, it's their right to sell it elsewhere. Heck... If it's really that unfair, trump should be glad that Canada will be dumping their stuff in the EU instead.
 
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Taleweaver said:
Let's say you're right and the US is much more wealthy than the EU.
Click to expand...


Actually what I was saying is that bringing up the EU vs USA comparison wasn't even relevant. The fact that the USA is at the lowest percentage of its population below the poverty line ever, and that the 'record' has been broken for two years in a row, is relevant to this conversation though. Because underpinning every thread in this subforum right now is the presumption that the US economy is somehow suffering (it's not) and that the plight of the poor is getting worse (it's actually improving).

A post above says 1% fewer people in the USA under the poverty line now than before 2 years ago isn't a big deal. That's 3.5 million people not in poverty now that were before 2024, so I disagree.

As for Canada, I agree with you that they should proceed with an economic policy that they feel is in their country's best interest. Absolutely. But it's not like the tariff game didn't exist before Trump. Canada has had extremely high tariffs (up to and even more than 300%) against some US agricultural products for a long time. Ostensibly, to protect their domestic agricultural market. Well guess what? Two can play.
 
Hanafuda said:
Actually what I was saying is that bringing up the EU vs USA comparison wasn't even relevant. The fact that the USA is at the lowest percentage of its population below the poverty line ever, and that the 'record' has been broken for two years in a row, is relevant to this conversation though. Because underpinning every thread in this subforum right now is the presumption that the US economy is somehow suffering (it's not) and that the plight of the poor is getting worse (it's actually improving).

A post above says 1% fewer people in the USA under the poverty line now than before 2 years ago isn't a big deal. That's 3.5 million people not in poverty now that were before 2024, so I disagree.

As for Canada, I agree with you that they should proceed with an economic policy that they feel is in their country's best interest. Absolutely. But it's not like the tariff game didn't exist before Trump. Canada has had extremely high tariffs (up to and even more than 300%) against some US agricultural products for a long time. Ostensibly, to protect their domestic agricultural market. Well guess what? Two can play.
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If there was a blanket 300% tariff on something, I'd agree that could be considered unfair. Now explain how the US could EVER hit that 300% tariff amount to us, and then we'll decide on if it's fair or not.

Because if not, you're just taking an unrealistic number and trying to pass it off as a common occurrence to explain this administrations insane tariffs.
 
Hanafuda said:
Ok but every country's median income is not the same, so it's not apples/apples.

Per google, median income in Spain is approx. $28.2k. For the US, about $65k.
Click to expand...
That difference is the reason its best to compare by median income. The same amount of money will buy you drastically different standards of living depending on the country.
If you compare directly, the average Spanish income is dire poverty by US standards. But a lot of things are cheaper in Spain, so that obviously doesn't work.
It's the money version of standardising per-capita.

But, whatever. Regardless of what is happening in other countries, an improvement in poverty levels is an improvement. Good job, America.

It is also definitely not the sole factor. Poverty is about your income, there are a myriad other factors between that and actual quality of life. Price rises don't affect your income, orders to stop enforcing cryptocurrency crime laws don't affect your income, etc.
 
Hana can't help but post transphobic cringe unprompted huh.

Exnor said:
You dont eve try to disguise your homophobia do you?
Click to expand...
He's had a number of homophobic and transphobic crash outs over the years but low IQ behavior like this is expected from a 3 times Trump voter.
 
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SeltzerMist said:
Hana can't help but post transphobic cringe unprompted huh.


He's had a number of homophobic and transphobic crash outs over the years but low IQ behavior like this is expected from a 3 times Trump voter.
Click to expand...

Stay on topic at least somewhat, asshat. Unprompted? It was a counterpoint to the same meme posted right before me.

A merely homosexual person appears as a normal person who is, or should be, comfortable with their sexuality and their biological sex, male or female. A merely homosexual person is not suffering from a mental illness.

You seem to think 'transphobic' is some kind of highly effective weapon word. It means nothing to me though, because I don't believe in that cult of coddling the mentally deranged. Penis? Male. Vagina? Female. I couldn't care less if a person is attracted to others with the same thingy they have though.
 
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Hanafuda said:
Stay on point at least somewhat, asshat. Unprompted? It was a counterpoint to the same meme posted right before me.
Click to expand...
You post transphobic shit and get mad when called out? What a joke. It was your choice to remind everyone that you're an unintelligent bigoted asshole.

I didn't need reminding though. Don't dish it if you can't take it back snowflake.

Hanafuda said:
You seem to think 'transphobic' is some kind of highly effective weapon word. It means nothing to me though, because I don't believe in that cult of coddling mental derangement. Penis? Male. Vagina? Female. I couldn't care less if a person is attracted to others with the same thingy they have though.
Click to expand...
Nice transphobic crash out from camp Epstein 😅
 
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