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"If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing" is a stupid quote and I'm sick of hearing it

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osm70 said:
So, by the time I even see the agreement for the first time and finally have a chance to read it, I already agreed? And that's somehow not a problem?
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It is a problem because it's obtuse and intentionally inconvenient, but not for the reasons stated. The order of operations can reasonably be:
Buy hardware and game
Setup hardware and read License Agreement
Disagree
Return hardware and game
 
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SecureBoot said:
It is a problem because it's obtuse and intentionally inconvenient, but not for the reasons stated. The order of operations can reasonably be:
Buy hardware and game
Setup hardware and read License Agreement
Disagree
Return hardware and game
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And then they tell you "you opened the box, so no refunds."
 
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SecureBoot said:
You agree to the license agreement when you buy the hardware the plays games


I mean yeah, the point is they don't want you to read them, but that doesn't change the fact that you blindly agreed to terms you weren't familiar with
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Also, T&C aren't a legally binding agreement. They can write whatever they want, that doesn't mean that courts will find it valid.

The whole "purchases only give you a license that we have the right to revoke at any time" disclaimer is something that needs to be legally challenged because it has gotten out of hand. It's abuse of the legal system, plain and simple.
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SecureBoot said:
I have never encountered this in the western world. Reputable vendors always have a return policy for open box items in my experience
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Video games have traditionally been an exclusion to that return policy probably due to piracy concerns (people buying games just to rip it and return it)
 
Last edited by The Real Jdbye,
The Real Jdbye said:
Also, T&C aren't a legally binding agreement. They can write whatever they want, that doesn't mean that courts will find it valid.
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Video games have traditionally been an exclusion to that return policy probably due to piracy concerns (people buying games just to rip it and return it)
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Which I should have brought up in the order post but the point slipped my mind.

I think based on the feedback, there's definitely a point to be made for the point about Ts&Cs being shaky/weak. I am still of the mind that people get precisely what they signed up for and it is their unfortunate responsibility to read what is given to them, but I concede that others may view this through a different lens.

Even if you remove that point from my argument, I still think it's a dumb phrase for the other points made. I think it still is dumb to equate piracy to theft when they are already different things. I think the clauses are only weakly correlated at best, and I think it's largely just lip service to a cause because people want to pirate. The only people I believe actually care about game preservation are the Ross Scotts of the world
 
SecureBoot said:
Which I should have brought up in the order post but the point slipped my mind.

I think based on the feedback, there's definitely a point to be made for the point about Ts&Cs being shaky/weak. I am still of the mind that people get precisely what they signed up for and it is their unfortunate responsibility to read what is given to them, but I concede that others may view this through a different lens.

Even if you remove that point from my argument, I still think it's a dumb phrase for the other points made. I think it still is dumb to equate piracy to theft when they are already different things. I think the clauses are only weakly correlated at best, and I think it's largely just lip service to a cause because people want to pirate. The only people I believe actually care about game preservation are the Ross Scotts of the world
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They are indeed different things, but a lot of companies don't see it that way. They equate piracy to people taking money straight out of their bank account. That is what people are trying to refute.

Edit: It's also a reference to the old 90s ad that literally said "piracy is stealing" even though there's no legal basis for that claim.
 
The Real Jdbye said:
Also, T&C aren't a legally binding agreement. They can write whatever they want, that doesn't mean that courts will find it valid.

The whole "purchases only give you a license that we have the right to revoke at any time" disclaimer is something that needs to be legally challenged because it has gotten out of hand. It's abuse of the legal system, plain and simple.
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Video games have traditionally been an exclusion to that return policy probably due to piracy concerns (people buying games just to rip it and return it)
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yeah i mean nintendo could write "you pirate games we will find you and skin you alive" still they would be doing something illegal (even the threat of it)
 
cearp said:
"if eating isn't consuming, then licking isn't tasting"
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That's deep, yo.
Nietzsche type of thing, really.
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SecureBoot said:
You agree to the license agreement when you buy the hardware the plays games
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That is not necessarily correct.
You buy a PC and you have no T&C for the games, but for the Operating System.

You can opt out of windows and go with the PC and submit yourself to the whims of the Open Source Revolution™

If you crack open a game, you get a long term relationship with it.
 
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DiscostewSM said:
With all these other people justifying their piracy with things like corporate greed and such, I simply think... "You're going to do it anyways, so just do it. We don't need to hear a sob story and/or justifying with lies."
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I don't know why this get called out so much in piracy discussion threads. Not wanting to support a practice from a company is a pretty understandable reason for wanting to pirate.
 
End of the day this is going to movies vs having a dvd thing, with modern caveat being with abundance of renters and reviewers, you can experience the barely-any-story of a generic multiplayer thing through someone else who also makes money off of it.

If you want to go sit at the IMAX 3D, then you pay to see it once. Remember when games were ONLY at the arcades and each life cost a quarter? industry is taking it full circle back to that era, and people at large are none the happier for it. ["Happy" being used as mindless and moronic since next to nothing in today's entertainment industry is actually meant to entertain]
 
ciro64 said:
I don't know why this get called out so much in piracy discussion threads. Not wanting to support a practice from a company is a pretty understandable reason for wanting to pirate.
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Because gamers are entitled.
They will tell you is moral to pirate games from X company because company is bad and doesn't pet kitties, but make good successful games and worth playing. But they don't go to a store and rob the game.

In the physical world, we avoid bad companies and their products, not steal them. No, in the physical realm, there's effective rules and penalties.

Interesting how things are.
 
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cearp said:
"if eating isn't consuming, then licking isn't tasting"
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So if I only lick you, at intervals I presume acceptable yet unnoticeable by you, I unlock the infinite flavor town?!
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eyeliner said:
Because gamers are entitled.
They will tell you is moral to pirate games from X company because company is bad and doesn't pet kitties, but make good successful games and worth playing. But they don't go to a store and rob the game.

In the physical world, we avoid bad companies and their products, not steal them. No, in the physical realm, there's effective rules and penalties.

Interesting how things are.
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And honestly, if big corpos re/adopt selling phys copies on 128gb SD cards - it'll all be for the better and if not for free 64gb cards at the end of it all.
 
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eyeliner said:
That's deep, yo.
Nietzsche type of thing, really.
Post automatically merged:


That is not necessarily correct.
You buy a PC and you have no T&C for the games, but for the Operating System.

You can opt out of windows and go with the PC and submit yourself to the whims of the Open Source Revolution™

If you crack open a game, you get a long term relationship with it.
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There's still the gotcha of the T&C for the storefront you get your games from. Unless you're using something like GOG of course, but then you're just buying DRM free which is outside of the scope of this conversation
 
Dark_Ansem said:
software developers should let me OWN my software
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Since when did people ever OWN other peoples/companies software that THEY wrote and sold?????

Unless YOU hired everyone on the project and made it clear that they're writing that software for YOU, its not YOUR OWN software.

A perpetual license (aka physical (and most digital) games) does not mean you own the software itself.
 
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eyeliner said:
Because gamers are entitled.
They will tell you is moral to pirate games from X company because company is bad and doesn't pet kitties, but make good successful games and worth playing. But they don't go to a store and rob the game.

In the physical world, we avoid bad companies and their products, not steal them. No, in the physical realm, there's effective rules and penalties.

Interesting how things are.
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See, this already jumped from "reason for wanting to pirate" to attacking the "entitled hypocrite moralist gamer" straw man

If the practices of a company affects my decision to piracy, it doesn't imply that I'm carrying mantras with me or pretending I'm a hero
 
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ciro64 said:
I don't know why this get called out so much in piracy discussion threads. Not wanting to support a practice from a company is a pretty understandable reason for wanting to pirate.
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Funny how the option of "staying away from a company you think does bad things" doesn't register. Your notion is like claiming you deserve compensation because you don't like whatever practice they are conducting. Quite lying to yourself and everyone else with this crap. You want the games because you want them, not because of whatever thing the company does.
 
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DiscostewSM said:
Funny how the option of "staying away from a company you think does bad things" doesn't register. Your notion is like claiming you deserve compensation because you don't like whatever practice they are conducting. Quite lying to yourself and everyone else with this crap. You want the games because you want them, not because of whatever thing the company does.
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You're already jumping to the conclusion that I'm using a moral reasoning as the reason why I'm pirating and turning the talk about attacking the perceived moral reasoning. People come in these threads with a itchy trigger finger, which is the reason I grew so weary of piracy discussions. I guess it's fair to feel tired of the "it is morally right to pirate Nintendo" posters, but I'd rather not be labeled as such.

Yes, I want games because I want them. I'm not trying to justify or invalidate anything. I just think that making constructive analysis from a psychological point of view what influences a person to pirate something is the most interesting way to talk about piracy.

I actually haven't pirated PC games in quite a while, one of my recent purchases being Doom: The Dark Ages. Even at 50% off it wasn't a cheap purchase for me. I already knew the game was on top of Steam and Denuvo DRM, but upon launching the game I had to agree to four different contracts with QR codes on them. Game purchases usually are accompanied by some sort of positive feeling, but this made me feel uncomfortable and unwelcome right off the bat. I think I am entitled to feel this way regardless if I made a good decision when purchasing or not.

Not looking forwarding to pirate any particular PC game anytime soon, but if I hypothetically did, I wouldn't blame myself if I felt relief from getting past some DRM a company decided to put on it. Me feeling that way doesn't have to suddenly make it a matter of justice or what is healthy for the game industry.
 
Last edited by ciro64,
Many people don't care on both legal and illegal means nothing happen. All companies are greedy to make games prices way too high are not OK for most of people. Many people force to use pirate games instead than buy games. We feel buy games become wasted and they can't get full refund money bank.

Are both legal and illegal make us and people happy? Answer is No! Most games are garbages how companies made them. Not many games are good enough.

We are end up buy more and more hardwares over video games now to future.

AI companies are full of s**t due to hoard tons of hardwares right now cause hike prices up way too higher now.
 
ciro64 said:
See, this already jumped from "reason for wanting to pirate" to attacking the "entitled hypocrite moralist gamer" straw man

If the practices of a company affects my decision to piracy, it doesn't imply that I'm carrying mantras with me or pretending I'm a hero
Click to expand...
I ain't using the "straw man" argument, here. It is what it is. You see it most often when Nintendo's antics against someone happen.

They always come saying "this is why pirating Nintendo's games is OK!".

That is entitlement, no?
 
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