Joe Biden Wins - Becomes 46th president of the United States

[Lacius]

There's no citation needed, I'm not running for President or trying to overthrow Joe Biden. It's my opinion, If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show.

"It's my opinion" is usually the last ditch effort of someone who is clearly wrong. You have a right to your opinion, however wrong it is, but you don't have a right to your own facts.

Nobody really cares what unsubstantiated opinion you want to shout into the wind. Come back when you can do better.

 

[Cryoraptor]

"It's my opinion" is usually the last ditch effort of someone who is clearly wrong. You have a right to your opinion, however wrong it is, but you don't have a right to your own facts.

"The election was rigged because I say so"

 

[Plasmaster09]

I woke up too nearly a page of somebody crying and trying to have me removed AGAIN because of my opinion and you expect me too just ignore it? My opinion isn't against the rules.

no it's just that that portion is practically the epitome of trolling
I agree with you on most of these points- you do deserve another chance since your opinion, no matter how active or fact-self-claiming, does have the right to be stated
but you've already started doing the same kind of trolling you got suspended for

if I had mod power and used it to crack down on your 'opinion', a falsity to which you are still entitled (with some limits- you can't just go around pushing it as fact without providing proof and then just back away and call it an opinion), I'd be bordering on the very Orwellian dictators that Trump's base have accused us of being after measures made to mitigate hate speech.
trolling and inflammatory remarks, however, have no such defenses.

 

[Cryoraptor]

How anti-climactic. Not only did Trump later call for the same no-fly zones, but Clinton's call for the no-fly zones doesn't come at all close to suggesting she would have been worse than Trump. Remember, we are talking about a man who illegally separated children from their parents at the border and locked them in cages (some of them died, and many of them still haven't been returned), utterly botched the federal response to the pandemic that has caused nearly 400,000 Americans to die, and instigated an armed insurrection against the Capitol and the results of a fair a secure election. Gosh though, that Clinton and her proposed no-fly zone. Grow up.

I'll concede defeat on that one. Although, at the time nobody really knew that these things would happen, so I still maintain that at the time, Trump was slightly better. But they were both terrible options from day 1.

Also, I think it's a touch unfair to say the Trump administration caused 400k Americans to die. I won't go into COVID here, but hundreds of thousands of Americans were going to die regardless. It's a virus; a nanoorganism that, unless you believe it's artificial, nobody made and is nobody's fault. Although China could have done a better job at controlling it before it spread to other countries. But let's not play the blame game, as I said, it's a nanoorganism that most likely no one had control over evolving.

 

[ghjfdtg]

I think Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem. Hillary and the Democrats were so bad that America elected Trump, TRUMP, to be president, and don't get me wrong, he was the right choice in 2016, but it doesn't take a genius to see that he's a mentally unstable retard. American politics became so bad that Trump was the better choice in 2016, and Biden isn't much better. I feel like we'll be having the same convo in 4 years time where we're agreeing that he was the right choice in 2020, but was realistically a demented old retard who fixed nothing. It's too early to tell yet, but my gut says that's the convo we'll be having in 4 years.

I agree that Trump is part of a bigger problem (and contributed to make it even bigger as seen recently) but i personally disagree with him being the right choice in the end. The damage he has done will take multiple presidents to undo if another extremist Trump-like leader doesn't come along that is.

 

[Cryoraptor]

The damage he has done will take multiple presidents to undo

Most likely, if they even want to fix the issues he's caused.

 

[Plasmaster09]

I'll concede defeat on that one. Although, at the time nobody really knew that these things would happen, so I still maintain that at the time, Trump was slightly better. But they were both terrible options from day 1.

Also, I think it's a touch unfair to say the Trump administration caused 400k Americans to die. I won't go into COVID here, but hundreds of thousands of Americans were going to die regardless. It's a virus; a nanoorganism that, unless you believe it's artificial, nobody made and is nobody's fault. Although China could have done a better job at controlling it before it spread to other countries. But let's not play the blame game, as I said, it's a nanoorganism that most likely no one had control over evolving.

Unfortunately, he catastrophically mishandled the pandemic in question.
He politicized it, first acting as if it was a hoax then admitting to it but refusing to act safely (it took him months upon months to wear a fucking mask), which ultimately resulted in droves of Trumpers exposing themselves and others to it for reasons they likely wouldn't have if he had responded remotely sanely to it.

 

[Deleted member 194275]

There's no citation needed, I'm not running for President or trying to overthrow Joe Biden. It's my opinion, If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show.

What you said kinda works for any lie you wish to tell, one absurd example could be: In my opinion the Playstation 5 was a war computer developed by the pope on the year of 1500, and I have no proof, because "I'm not running for President" and "If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show".

Anyway, I dont know the exact reasons you were banned for, but if it was only for believing in fake news, I think the punishment was a bit harsh.

 

[Cryoraptor]

Unfortunately, he catastrophically mishandled the pandemic in question.
He politicized it, first acting as if it was a hoax then admitting to it but refusing to act safely (it took him months upon months to wear a fucking mask), which ultimately resulted in droves of Trumpers exposing themselves and others to it for reasons they likely wouldn't have if he had responded remotely sanely to it.

Oh yeah, he handled it terribly. But saying he and the government are solely to blame for the loss of life is a bit extreme.

 

[Plasmaster09]

What you said kinda works for any lie you wish to tell, one absurd example could be: In my opinion the Playstation 5 was a war computer developed by the pope on the year of 1500, and I have no proof, because "I'm not running for President" and "If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show".

Anyway, I dont know the exact reasons you were banned for, but if it was only for believing in fake news, I think the punishment was a bit harsh.

no, it was moreso for trolling and inflammatory remarks iirc

 

[Lacius]

Although, at the time nobody really knew that these things would happen

People were metaphorically shouting from the mountaintops about the consequences of a Trump presidency.

1. We knew about Trump's racist and anti-immigrant rhetoric, and people were told what the likely consequences would be.
2. We knew about Trump effectively ending the pandemic response team long before COVID-19 hit, and people were told what the possible consequences would be.
3. We knew that Trump said and did things like a despot-wannabe, we knew Trump was already calling the 2016 election a fraud if he lost, and he suggested that people who embrace the Second Amendment were the only ones who could take the country back from the election fraud if Clinton won.
4. We knew Trump was calling the 2020 election a fraud long before the election took place, and people were told what the consequences would likely be.

Don't act like the consequences of a Trump presidency were unknown. You were told. Everyone was told. What you're doing is gaslighting.

so I still maintain that at the time, Trump was slightly better. But they were both terrible options from day 1.

There was no evidence that Clinton was anywhere as bad as Trump. Sure, Clinton wasn't my first choice (nor my second, nor my third), and there are plenty of criticisms of Clinton to go around (and I'd probably agree with most of them), but there was ample evidence that she would have been a decent president, and there was no evidence she would have been nearly as bad as Trump.

Also, I think it's a touch unfair to say the Trump administration caused 400k Americans to die. I won't go into COVID here, but hundreds of thousands of Americans were going to die regardless. It's a virus; a nanoorganism that, unless you believe it's artificial, nobody made and is nobody's fault. Although China could have done a better job at controlling it before it spread to other countries. But let's not play the blame game, as I said, it's a nanoorganism that most likely no one had control over evolving.

You are right that it would be unfair to say 100% of the American COVID-19 deaths are Trump's fault. It is fair to say, however, that many of those death's are Trump's fault. From a post I made back in October:

Trump's initial failures include, but aren't limited to:

1. Effectively ending the pandemic response team a year or two before the pandemic hit
2. Downplaying risks by saying publicly that COVID-19 was not a big deal and nobody should be worried <-- We know that this alone contributed and continues to contribute to increased infection rates
3. The lack of a federal response to address a lack of testing
4. The lack of a federal response to address a lack of PPE
5. A lack of a federal response to address social distancing
6. Encouraging states and municipalities to reopen too quickly
7. Encouraging states and municipalities not to shutdown at all
8. A failure to address needed financial stimulus aside from the initial round (January update: We got a second round of $600. Whoa buddy, don't spend it all in one place).
9. Continuing to this day to peddle misinformation about masks, suggesting they cause one to be more likely to catch COVID-19
10. Suggesting disinfectant in the lungs can be an effective treatment against COVID-19
11. Continuing to this day to hold super spreader rallies with no social distancing and few masks, inside and outside

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_communication_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._federal_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump#COVID-19_pandemic

No, we wouldn't have had zero COVID-19 deaths if Clinton had been elected president. Based on other countries with comparable population densities who enacted policies that Clinton was advocating from the sidelines, the COVID-19 deaths in the United States could have been hundreds of thousands less than what it was.

 

[Doran754]

What you said kinda works for any lie you wish to tell, one absurd example could be: In my opinion the Playstation 5 was a war computer developed by the pope on the year of 1500, and I have no proof, because "I'm not running for President" and "If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show".

Anyway, I dont know the exact reasons you were banned for, but if it was only for believing in fake news, I think the punishment was a bit harsh.

It was probably a number of things, I'll be the first too admit I've pushed the limit's at times. I know I haven't broken any rules but It's fine, I'm not a moron I understand why.

Anyway you're correct It does work for any lie, It's worked for thousands of years with religion, It's worked for the past 4 years with Russia, I'm sure it would've continued for another 4 If Trump had won despite there being zero evidence Russia interferred. In fact the only proof of any interference came in the Brexit referendum when the then sitting president of the United States told another nation what to vote for and if they didn't, there would be consequences. This is obviously easily forgotten on America's side of the aisle though as they screamed about Russia full force for 4 years. It's the hypocrisy that get's me honestly. There's been 1000's of unsubstantiated claims about Trump in the last 4 years that because It's Trump they get a pass because all the big tech hate him.

Also there was lots of claims about election rigging with proof. That might not be enough to have changed the outcome but It does exist and therefore It's not out of the realms of possibility for it to be rigged entirely.

 

[Lacius]

My opinion isn't against the rules.

I could have the opinion that the Earth is flat, and that wouldn't be against the rules, but just because my opinion isn't against the rules doesn't mean I'm not a complete idiot.

The difference, of course, is the baseless opinion the Earth is flat is solely idiotic, while the baseless opinion that the election was fraudulent is the pretense for an insurrection against the United States.

 

[Deleted member 194275]

It was probably a number of things, I'll be the first too admit I've pushed the limit's at times. I know I haven't broken any rules but It's fine, I'm not a moron I understand why.

Anyway you're correct It does work for any lie, It's worked for thousands of years with religion, It's worked for the past 4 years with Russia, I'm sure it would've continued for another 4 If Trump had won despite there being zero evidence Russia interferred. In fact the only proof of any interference came in the Brexit referendum when the then sitting president of the United States told another nation what to vote for and if they didn't, there would be consequences. This is obviously easily forgotten on America's side of the aisle though as they screamed about Russia full force for 4 years. It's the hypocrisy that get's me honestly. There's been 1000's of unsubstantiated claims about Trump in the last 4 years that because It's Trump they get a pass because all the big tech hate him.

Also there was lots of claims about election rigging with proof. That might not be enough to have changed the outcome but It does exist and therefore It's not out of the realms of possibility for it to be rigged entirely.

I am very far away from USA, and I dont read nothing too much in depth about their internal stuff, but the information that I got here is that Trump was not punished at all on that Russia case, so I see no reason to bring this up. If he was condemned, then It would be a valid point.

 

[Doran754]

I am very far away from USA, and I dont read nothing too much in depth about their internal stuff, but the information that I got here is that Trump was not punished at all on that Russia case, so I see no reason to bring this up. If he was condemned, then It would be a valid point.

I brought it up because you talked about baseless lies with no evidence. That was one that was perpetrated in the media for 4 years.

I could have the opinion that the Earth is flat, and that wouldn't be against the rules, but just because my opinion isn't against the rules doesn't mean I'm not a complete idiot.

The difference, of course, is the baseless opinion the Earth is flat is solely idiotic, while the baseless opinion that the election was fraudulent is the pretense for an insurrection against the United States.

I'm sure there's some things I've missed but I tend to go directly to the source and what I saw was Trump asking people not too riot and to leave, he said it on video. Is there a video of him asking people to storm the capitol? I'd also like to point out the black panthers stormed the capitol in 1967 with guns, this isn't unheard of.

 

[Cryoraptor]

what I saw was Trump asking people not too riot and to leave, he said it on video. Is there a video of him asking people to storm the capitol?

I mean, he would have been genuinely breaking the law and inciting violence at that point, so of course he's not going to literally call for a political crusade against the establishment. He did however call them 'very special people', so take that how you will.

I'd also like to point out the black panthers stormed the capitol in 1967 with guns, this isn't unheard of.

Shameless whatabouttery.

 

[Rj.MoG]

Oh yeah, he handled it terribly. But saying he and the government are solely to blame for the loss of life is a bit extreme.

The dude just didn't give a fuck about it for months until suddenly claiming he had the best response, an amazing response to the kung flu. And the man has vomited hate and divisive dialogue for the past decade. Yet any one of his supporters has the audacity to claim "no one saw this coming" when his supporters are the ones waving the flags of previous wannabe insurrectionists in addition to waving their own flag of sovereignty. It's hard to reach out to the other side or take them seriously at all when almost all of them are hateful pieces of shit. People like Pelosi or Schumer aren't exactly great. But at least they aren't functionally retarded toddler's that want to burn down the house.

EDIT: People like this. What proof? What anything? All you idiots do is scream about BIG TECH when decades have gone by with republicans pushing this ridiculous capitalist agenda. You can't scream about it when it finally bites you. And the whole MSM shit is stupid too. Sinclair Media owns the vast majority of networks and they are very right leaning. Just because there's a lot of ridiculously negative things Trump does doesn't mean they're out to get him. He's just a piece of shit

It was probably a number of things, I'll be the first too admit I've pushed the limit's at times. I know I haven't broken any rules but It's fine, I'm not a moron I understand why.

Anyway you're correct It does work for any lie, It's worked for thousands of years with religion, It's worked for the past 4 years with Russia, I'm sure it would've continued for another 4 If Trump had won despite there being zero evidence Russia interferred. In fact the only proof of any interference came in the Brexit referendum when the then sitting president of the United States told another nation what to vote for and if they didn't, there would be consequences. This is obviously easily forgotten on America's side of the aisle though as they screamed about Russia full force for 4 years. It's the hypocrisy that get's me honestly. There's been 1000's of unsubstantiated claims about Trump in the last 4 years that because It's Trump they get a pass because all the big tech hate him.

Also there was lots of claims about election rigging with proof. That might not be enough to have changed the outcome but It does exist and therefore It's not out of the realms of possibility for it to be rigged entirely.

 

[Lacius]

Is there a video of him asking people to storm the capitol?

Yep.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/annotated-trump-speech-jan-6-capitol/

 

[Cryoraptor]

People were metaphorically shouting from the mountaintops about the consequences of a Trump presidency.

1. We knew about Trump's racist and anti-immigrant rhetoric, and people were told what the likely consequences would be.
2. We knew about Trump effectively ending the pandemic response team long before COVID-19 hit, and people were told what the possible consequences would be.
3. We knew that Trump said and did things like a despot-wannabe, we knew Trump was already calling the 2016 election a fraud if he lost, and he suggested that people who embrace the Second Amendment were the only ones who could take the country back from the election fraud if Clinton won.
4. We knew Trump was calling the 2020 election a fraud long before the election took place, and people were told what the consequences would likely be.

Don't act like the consequences of a Trump presidency were unknown. You were told. Everyone was told. What you're doing is gaslighting.


There was no evidence that Clinton was anywhere as bad as Trump. Sure, Clinton wasn't my first choice (nor my second, nor my third), and there are plenty of criticisms of Clinton to go around (and I'd probably agree with most of them), but there was ample evidence that she would have been a decent president, and there was no evidence she would have been nearly as bad as Trump.


You are right that it would be unfair to say 100% of the American COVID-19 deaths are Trump's fault. It is fair to say, however, that many of those death's are Trump's fault. From a post I made back in October:

Trump's initial failures include, but aren't limited to:

1. Effectively ending the pandemic response team a year or two before the pandemic hit
2. Downplaying risks by saying publicly that COVID-19 was not a big deal and nobody should be worried <-- We know that this alone contributed and continues to contribute to increased infection rates
3. The lack of a federal response to address a lack of testing
4. The lack of a federal response to address a lack of PPE
5. A lack of a federal response to address social distancing
6. Encouraging states and municipalities to reopen too quickly
7. Encouraging states and municipalities not to shutdown at all
8. A failure to address needed financial stimulus aside from the initial round (January update: We got a second round of $600. Whoa buddy, don't spend it all in one place).
9. Continuing to this day to peddle misinformation about masks, suggesting they cause one to be more likely to catch COVID-19
10. Suggesting disinfectant in the lungs can be an effective treatment against COVID-19
11. Continuing to this day to hold super spreader rallies with no social distancing and few masks, inside and outside

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_communication_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._federal_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump#COVID-19_pandemic

No, we wouldn't have had zero COVID-19 deaths if Clinton had been elected president. Based on other countries with comparable population densities who enacted policies that Clinton was advocating from the sidelines, the COVID-19 deaths in the United States could have been hundreds of thousands less than what it was.

I can't argue with any of that. Since I'm not from America I'm not fully clued up about American politics, so I can only go off of what I know (NOT just Trumpaganda). I will accept that I'm wrong on this one, although I would never have disputed the poor handling of the pandemic regardless, or that Trump's administration is a disaster.

Although I dispute the claim that I'm gaslighting. That makes little sense.

 

[Lacius]

I can't argue with any of that. Since I'm not from America I'm not fully clued up about American politics, so I can only go off of what I know (NOT just Trumpaganda). I will accept that I'm wrong on this one, although I would never have disputed the poor handling of the pandemic regardless, or that Trump's administration is a disaster.

Although I dispute the claim that I'm gaslighting. That makes little sense.

My point was that it was either ignorance or gaslighting to say "at the time nobody really knew that these things would happen." People were warned. Hell, Hillary Clinton was one of the people doing the warning.