Hacking Discussion Team Xecuter Attempted to Bribe RetroNX Developers

[Ev1l0rd]

Yeah... telling someone your hourly rate when they ask for a quote is totally a bribe /s. Because that's what this thread is about.

It is undeniably a bribe, because it would mean m4xw would have had to stop all FOSS work to work for something that they can't legally do. Even if m4xw took the bribe, it would still be a bribe.

The bribe is that they offered a lump of money for his work. They asked for his rates, which would logically imply that they were willing to give him a sum of money to do this.

Doesn't it depend on the GPL version?

GPL version changes mostly account for loopholes that let companies get underneath the GPL (by including proprietary software, see tivoization for a specific case of such a loophole) or by clarifying things that were unclear earlier.

Technically the guy is right (sorry @linuxares ).

• The GPL doesn't account for the server-side when it comes to a client-server style program (for the un-tech savvy: a webbrowser is a client, a website is the server). This is a semi-well known loophole in the GPL. A specific variant of this license exists called the Aferro GNU Public License (AGPL). The AGPL specifically addresses this server loophole by making the server fall under the AGPL and all the demands and requirements it applies. This loophole holds zero bearing on any of Team Xecuters license violations.
• The GPL demands developers/publishers to release the source to their users. Assuming the guy is only developing the software for internal/server-side use, there is no need to publish these changes (see the loophole for the previous bullet for server-side), because the source code would be in the hands of the company, which if it is an internal program, the users would be that companies employees. This is also when, if I modify a GPL licensed application for myself, I have no need to publish these changes, unless I make the choice to publicly release a binary containing these changes (in which case I would be required to follow the GPL). There is no real way around this one. As long as the modification is only done under internal use, the GPL does not demand releasing the source code publicly. SX OS is released to anyone who wants to use it as a download on Team Xecuters site as a single binary. They are required to release the source code to said binary.

I hope that clarifies that.

He used to be a GW shill on the 3DS days (same as Gary), another point in favor to think that TX is GW, and ur right, looks like TX isn't smart in any way

Wait, GaryOPA and json were GW shills...?

This really doesn't look good on TX and the argument for them "not being GW".

 

[m4xw]

He used to be a GW shill on the 3DS days (same as Gary), another point in favor to think that TX is GW, and ur right, looks like TX isn't smart in any way

Lets hope they know better and don't force me to do what I don't want to do.

 

[Billy Acuña]

Wait, GaryOPA and json were GW shills...?

This really doesn't look good on TX and the argument for them "not being GW".

It makes totally sence, keep in mind the TX isn't the actual TX from X360 days, as the brand was sold, GW is trying so haré too clean his reputation by changing their name, happened with StarGate not so long time time ago but they got caugh and abandoned that SG flashcard.

Edit. Also Gary hinted time ago on the StarGate thread that GW was working on the Switch before TX showed the bootrom exploit

 

[ghjfdtg]

@Billy Acuña
Yep, look at Mike Heskin's and naehrwert's Twitter. They found so many similarities that no one can deny it comes from at least the same development team as Gateway.

 

[m4xw]

It makes totally sence, keep in mind the TX isn't the actual TX from X360 days, as the brand was sold, GW is trying so haré too clean his reputation by changing their name, happened with StarGate not so long time time ago but they got caugh and abandoned that SG flashcard.

Edit. Also Gary hinted time ago on the StarGate thread that GW was working on the Switch before TX showed the bootrom exploit

It's so obvious even 4chan got it already (can u believe that???)

 

[Insane]

It is undeniably a bribe, because it would mean m4xw would have had to stop all FOSS work to work for something that they can't legally do. Even if m4xw took the bribe, it would still be a bribe.

The bribe is that they offered a lump of money for his work. They asked for his rates, which would logically imply that they were willing to give him a sum of money to do this.


GPL version changes mostly account for loopholes that let companies get underneath the GPL (by including proprietary software, see tivoization for a specific case of such a loophole) or by clarifying things that were unclear earlier.

Technically the guy is right (sorry @linuxares ).

• The GPL doesn't account for the server-side when it comes to a client-server style program (for the un-tech savvy: a webbrowser is a client, a website is the server). This is a semi-well known loophole in the GPL. A specific variant of this license exists called the Aferro GNU Public License (AGPL). The AGPL specifically addresses this server loophole by making the server fall under the AGPL and all the demands and requirements it applies. This loophole holds zero bearing on any of Team Xecuters license violations.
• The GPL demands developers/publishers to release the source to their users. Assuming the guy is only developing the software for internal/server-side use, there is no need to publish these changes (see the loophole for the previous bullet for server-side), because the source code would be in the hands of the company, which if it is an internal program, the users would be that companies employees. This is also when, if I modify a GPL licensed application for myself, I have no need to publish these changes, unless I make the choice to publicly release a binary containing these changes (in which case I would be required to follow the GPL). There is no real way around this one. As long as the modification is only done under internal use, the GPL does not demand releasing the source code publicly. SX OS is released to anyone who wants to use it as a download on Team Xecuters site as a single binary. They are required to release the source code to said binary.

I hope that clarifies that.


Wait, GaryOPA and json were GW shills...?

This really doesn't look good on TX and the argument for them "not being GW".

Please note that you said the GPL only requires the developer/publisher to release the source to their own users. Meaning, if I work under an NDA for a company (as a contractor for example), I am only required to deliver the source code to the company. Whatever the company does with it would not be my problem. So technically I would adhere to the GPL, but the company which redistributes the binaries without source is in licence breach.

Nowhere in the GPL it is said, that I have to deliver my changes to the whole wide world.

 

[Ev1l0rd]

Please note that you said the GPL only requires the developer/publisher to release the source to their own users. Meaning, if I work under an NDA for a company (as a contractor for example), I am only required to deliver the source code to the company. Whatever the company does with it would not be my problem. So technically I would adhere to the GPL, but the company which redistributes the binaries without source is in licence breach.

Nowhere in the GPL it is said, that I have to deliver my changes to the whole wide world.

Correct, although that company would also be obliged to have their program be released under the GPL. And let me just uh... say it outright: assuming that you use GPL code, it would be a bit of a dick move to not inform the company you used GPL code. Setting up others to break the law isn't a nice thing to do, but that's more of a moral issue.

 

[Insane]

Correct, although that company would also be obliged to have their program be released under the GPL. And let me just uh... say it outright: assuming that you use GPL code, it would be a bit of a dick move to not inform the company you used GPL code. Setting up others to break the law isn't a nice thing to do, but that's more of a moral issue.

Actually the GPL states that you have to add the licence agreement to it. So the company would know. It anyway depends on the use case. Sometimes you just need to modify certain tools or libraries (e.g. Monitoring) for the company. Everybody is aware that there is GPL code inside, but it does not matter. Larger corporations you anyway cannot lie to and use GPL code without their knowledge, as they have source code and library scanners installed which check for GPL code.

Also without the GPL server side "loophole" we would not have linux, since everything uses the kernel and I assume getting all of that sorted would be a legal nightmare.

 

[smf]

Hate us all you want but we add just as much value added on top as the next guy.

No, you've hurt the scene more than anyone else. The people might like you, but then a lot of people like TX.

RA has done nothing for innovation, it just ports old emulators to more and more platforms. It kills motivation for everyone else.

For the avoidance of doubt, dumping is completely separate from MAME. If you give money to the Dumping Union then it's nothing to do with MAME & it's not just for show. The person who runs the Dumping Union isn't a member of MAME (and as far as I know never has been). The two groups have different goals and we don't agree on everything.

 

[lincruste]

you gotta be kidding. that's definitely not a bribe.

this is very common to happen in some areas. you work for company A. company B wants you in their team. they make you an offer.

that's the way it is.

Yes, then you quit company A and steal its licenced code with you for company B. Then you go to jail and kids throw stones at your fucking thief face.

 

[Insane]

Yes, then you quit company A and steal its licenced code with you for company B. Then you go to jail and kids throw stones at your fucking thief face.

Of course nobody does that. They reimplement the stuff from scratch the same way they did before. Knowledge in peoples head can't be copyrighted that easily.

 

[RedHunter]

How this thread reach 34 pages. We have a lot of drama lovers here that's for sure.

 

[lufeig]

Yes, then you quit company A and steal its licenced code with you for company B. Then you go to jail and kids throw stones at your fucking thief face.

one day, when you get older, you'll learn that things don't work as you described.

Of course nobody does that. They reimplement the stuff from scratch the same way they did before. Knowledge in peoples head can't be copyrighted that easily.

exactly. that's why companies make you sign a contract prohibiting you to quit or to work anywhere else, unless you pay high fees or wait a couple of months/years.

 

[Ev1l0rd]

Errr, there isn't much left to dicsuss?

Seems the facts are in order now.

• It's a bribe. No ifs, no buts. What m4xw would have to do isn't legally permissible, due to the way libretro is licensed (hint: it's a giant licensing clusterfuck that ends with "you can't put it in any commercial product if you bundle certain cores and in the case of others your product must be GPLv3).
• m4xw has admitted to leading on TX to see how low they would steep (a good thing, seems they're willing to go quite low), which is where the figure comes from.
• Defending TX's behavior around this is a reprehensible act in and of itself. There is no leeway for TX here. They fucked up. They asked someone to break the law, that person didn't do so and brought their tactic to light.
• The shameless behavior in which TX and their shills seem to have chosen to engage in to try and slander libretro/retroarch/m4xw/retronx is even more reprehensible.

exactly. that's why companies make you sign a contract prohibiting you to quit or to work anywhere else, unless you pay high fees or wait a couple of months/years.

Non-competes seem to vary by state/country according to wikipedia. Over here you can only legally enforce one if it's not an unreasonable claim (you can't be forced to stop working in the field you're trained in, like um... are you listening to yourself on how stupid that would sound. You literally are unable to preform the job you're meant to be able to do just because some cunt says you can't? What logic is that?) and if it is an unreasonable claim it'll be declared void in court, while in some places they're legally void no matter what. In addition, the idea of a "non-compete" has little to do with any of this.

 

[Insane]

one day, when you get older, you'll learn that things don't work as you described.


exactly. that's why companies make you sign a contract prohibiting you to quit or to work anywhere else, unless you pay high fees or wait a couple of months/years.

Luckily in my country non competes are either not valid at all, or you get full salary from your old company for the duration of the non compete. Unfortunately no compay has picked me up on the second option yet. I'd like a couple of years off on full salary.

 

[xiaNaix]

Errr, there isn't much left to dicsuss?

Seems the facts are in order now.

• It's a bribe. No ifs, no buts. What m4xw would have to do isn't legally permissible, due to the way libretro is licensed (hint: it's a giant licensing clusterfuck that ends with "you can't put it in any commercial product if you bundle certain cores and in the case of others your product must be GPLv3).
• m4xw has admitted to leading on TX to see how low they would steep (a good thing, seems they're willing to go quite low), which is where the figure comes from.
• Defending TX's behavior around this is a reprehensible act in and of itself. There is no leeway for TX here. They fucked up. They asked someone to break the law, that person didn't do so and brought their tactic to light.
• The shameless behavior in which TX and their shills seem to have chosen to engage in to try and slander libretro/retroarch/m4xw/retronx is even more reprehensible.

Nice fan fiction. I suppose this was all a LARP by M4xw. Here is my initial contact with him.



And here is just a small snippet of his chatlogs with TX.

M4X, [13.08.18 13:27]
heh fuck the community

M4X, [13.08.18 13:27]
thats for sure

M4X, [13.08.18 13:27]
little shitbrats

M4X, [13.08.18 13:28]
Anyway I will rethink prices if its free for this revision

M4X, [13.08.18 13:28]
That changes a lot of me

M4X, [13.08.18 13:29]
Anyway I think a smooth UX integrated into the rommenu will make a lot of people use that over my builds

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If TX were to release the full chats a lot of opinions might change but they are done with this clown and are moving on. I reached out to both him and TwinAphex in good faith and tried to explain the situation and they just proceed to come here and shit on me. I'm done.

Non-competes seem to vary by state/country according to wikipedia. Over here you can only legally enforce one if it's not an unreasonable claim (you can't be forced to stop working in the field you're trained in, like um... are you listening to yourself on how stupid that would sound. You literally are unable to preform the job you're meant to be able to do just because some cunt says you can't? What logic is that?) and if it is an unreasonable claim it'll be declared void in court, while in some places they're legally void no matter what. In addition, the idea of a "non-compete" has little to do with any of this.

Libretro hasn't been able to enforce their license on anybody. Companies like Hyperkin and numerous others continue to repeatedly rape them with zero consequences. Retron and similar devices are sold at legitimate retailers. Stop kidding yourselves.

 

[omegasoul6]

Can one of you post the full chat logs instead of this stupid "hur hur here's a snippet of the logs, we don't want to release the full logs though because reasons" crap? It seriously cannot be that hard.

This is just silly at this point.

 

[DiscoDaz]

677 comments of what I can only imagine is complete bollox. Correction 678....hurray!

 

[RattletraPM]

Can one of you post the full chat logs instead of this stupid "hur hur here's a snippet of the logs, we don't want to release the full logs though because reasons" crap? It seriously cannot be that hard.

This is just silly at this point.

Either this, or now it would be a good time to lock the thread.

I've supported m4xw's claims and I'm still inclined to believe him to a degree (as the logs don't fully discredit him, he already admitted to see how low TX would get) but if neither of the two parties decide to post the full, integral, unmodified logs then the discussion will stagnate at a moot point and it would just make this thread even more toxic than it is.

 

[Ev1l0rd]

Nice fan fiction. I suppose this was all a LARP by M4xw. Here is my initial contact with him.



And here is just a small snippet of his chatlogs with TX.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If TX were to release the full chats a lot of opinions might change but they are done with this clown and are moving on. I reached out to both him and TwinAphex in good faith and tried to explain the situation and they just proceed to come here and shit on me. I'm done

Assuming you are correct, @m4xw ?

Also how sure are you that he wasn't playing you like he was playing TX?