How do you feel about abortion?

[supersega]

Earlier I saw it phrased as "necessary evil" where I don't consider it an evil, not even close. That is where I was heading.

It is a positive service, a positive thing a person can do and can happily treat it lightly with friends just like a bad hangover.

I find this hard to believe. It is really just murder, and if people can't see that, they have been desensitized by societal norms. Abortion should only be allowed if it endangers the life of the mother. Any other case? If the mom does not want the kid, they put them up for adoption; you did the crime, you do the pain. God has a plan for every one of us, including those not born yet, and its wrong when we try and play God, as proven by Jontron.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I find this hard to believe. It is really just murder, and if people can't see that, they have been desensitized by societal norms. Abortion should only be allowed if it endangers the life of the mother. Any other case? If the mom does not want the kid, they put them up for adoption; you did the crime, you do the pain. God has a plan for every one of us, including those not born yet, and its wrong when we try and play God, as proven by Jontron.

It's a little foolish to say that the mother is the only one that is emotionally punished by putting a child up for adoption. There's definitely another party that I don't think you're thinking of there

 

[supersega]

It's a little foolish to say that the mother is the only one that is emotionally punished by putting a child up for adoption. There's definitely another party that I don't think you're thinking of there

Meant that as "you had sex with a person you didn't want kids with, you have to have the pain of childbirth." Sorry, I'm quite tired.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Meant that as "you had sex with a person you didn't want kids with, you have to have the pain of childbirth." Sorry, I'm quite tired.

No, you're fine, it's getting late. But you do have to consider the fact that the adoption system is rough on a kid, even in a best case scenario, downright traumatizing in the worst. I'm definitely not knocking all the people who have adopted children, because in my mind they're heroes, but I would never want to force a child into the system, especially given how crowded it is already

Granted, newborns have a much higher rate of adoption, but if they aren't adopted early, the above statement holds

 

[FAST6191]

It is really just murder, and if people can't see that, they have been desensitized by societal norms.

Societal norms thousands of years old? The Romans had the ability to effect a chemical one and purportedly kept massive stockpiles, see the silphium stuff we were on about earlier http://allthatsinteresting.com/silphium . It sort of went away for a little bit after that in Europe, though it was still done in one form or another. On the flip side these societal norms have seen us living in one of the best times in human history, similarly http://worldabortionlaws.com/map/

Is that abortion laws or best places to live? We could go a little further and look at timelines for introduction and various crime stats but I will skip that one for now.
Might then the logic that says it is murder be an antiquated one? We already have many examples of others that were once considered fundamental truths and are now look back upon with heads being shaken and promises of "never again". The world's finest legal minds and ethicists have seemingly repeatedly upheld the notion as well, how does that play into this?

Equally I am back on "when does it count?". Is contraception bad? Is contraception that prevents the implantation of a fertilised egg bad? Does it go further back and is masturbation bad? Is having a tubal ligation (or a hysterectomy which is the removal of the whole system in women, a just the ovaries version also exists) or vasectomy bad? Once implantation happens? Before one cell becomes two? Two becomes four? Why is the model in which "it is not a human but the blueprints and some building blocks, albeit one more predisposed than most other things, to create one" incorrect?

"God has a plan for every one of us" holds no water for me (from where I sit it is an imaginary being shared by a few religions and branches thereof, thus of no real relevance to the way I live my life). To quote a philosoraptor image though "if the gods have a plan for every one of us then isn't an abortion their plan?".

 

[osm70]

... What are you talking about?


Wow, way to come across as a dick. Hate to break it to you, but if you have a teenager they're definitely out being a "slut" (read: having sex, even if it's in a committed relationship) anyway. Wouldn't you rather that they do it in a safe manner with as little risk of pregnancy possible?

And even if they aren't having sex, do they not have the right to fully understanding both their own and the opposite sex's anatomy?

Pretty sure they meant this:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCecsVoeJcsXbAra7Sl4mOPw/videos

It's a terrible video series about teaching LGBT things to children.

I'm not sure if the creators suck, or if they are trying to mislead intentionally.

 

[Minox]

Reminder: This is not the topic to start talking about politics - stick to the topic at hand.

 

[Megadriver94]

I have little to no problem with allowing babies that are either conceived from rape or found to have substantial-pervasive mental and physical handicaps to be aborted(the former only permitted from zygote stage up to probably the start of the 2nd trimester).

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I have little to no problem with allowing babies that are either conceived from rape or found to have substantial-pervasive mental and physical handicaps to be aborted(the former only permitted from zygote stage up to probably the start of the 2nd trimester).

Why not any other circumstance, then?

 

[Jack Daniels]

i don't even understand why there should be a debate on the matter.
if it's not in your body or not your baby then what in the world makes you think you've got the right to mingle?

* you don't know what's the state of mind of another human beïng.
* you don't know her history.
* you don't know how she got pregnant.

what makes your oppinion worth that much?

yes abortion is ending hope for an unborn life, but that doesn't make it your problem.
for all you know she might not had a free will in getting pregnant in the first place, it could've been rape, abuse, or (having the idea of) not having any other option at beforehand.
she might know she's carrying a deathly desease so there's no hope for her to be born baby to have a happy life.
or what if she's not able to give the primairy needs for a baby?

even if it's none of these, then still what's your excuse to have to mingle?

 

[Fates-Blade-900]

Abortion is wrong, just wrong.
I think that if women don't want to have a risk of getting pregnant then they shouldn't have sex, plan and simple, if they do then they have to take responsibility for that action, as for rape, well it would be the woman's choice whether or not she has a abortion or not but it is morally wrong, of course I don't think it's a good idea to just say "because life gave me a bad card hand I should just toss them out," why? Because everyone has been handed a bad card hand sometime in their life, they've dealt with pain, loss, guilt, or abuse. And those abused people go on to live there lives. So when you play a card game, you make the most of the cards you were dealt, you don't opt out of the game, much like life, you do what you can do, and don't worry about anything else. I don't think it's right to kill the baby/s that a woman has because it is unwanted, there are many things that are unwanted in this life such as abuse, but people deal with it.

And all that aside, abortion comes from one thing: unwanted pregnancy. So don't make it unwanted, work to help protect women from rapist, and women shouldn't willingly have sex if they're not ready for a pregnancy, simple, and guys need to stop bothering women so much about...it, I mean women are women, I think guys need to leave them alone, and let them live there lives and stop being so...if you know what I mean, childish, I mean it's okay for a guy to think a woman is cute or sexy, but they should leave it at that, if there not ready to really love and sacrifice for her. (I wish guys loved women by taking care of them and putting them number 1 in this life, instead of always being concerned about big number 1 which is themselves, women aren't sex tools after all, they're so selfish, a man should sacrifice for his lover, and I mean sacrifice, but the woman should be so sweet and lovely that she deserves it, and she should want to be, but there are a lot of women out here who aren't like that, thus they aren't really bride material, and that's okay, 'cause they're just being them.)

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I appreciate the message of most of your second paragraph, but...

and women shouldn't willingly have sex if there aren't ready for a pregnancy, simple

Why not?

 

[osaka35]

Abortion is wrong, just wrong.
I think that if women don't want to have a risk of getting pregnant then they shouldn't have sex, plan and simple, if they do then they have to take responsibility for that action, as for rape, well it would be the woman's choice whether or not she has a abortion or not but it is morally wrong, of course I don't think it's a good idea to just say "because life gave me a bad card hand I should just toss them out," why? Because everyone has been handed a bad card hand sometime in their life, they've dealt with pain, loss, guilt, or abuse. And those abused people go on to live there lives. So when you play a card game, you make the most of the cards you were dealt, you don't opt out of the game, much like life, you do what you can do, and don't worry about anything else. I don't think it's right to kill the baby/s that a woman has because it is unwanted, there are many things that are unwanted in this life such as abuse, but people deal with it.

And all that aside, abortion comes from one thing: unwanted pregnancy. So don't make it unwanted, work to help protect women from rapist, and women shouldn't willingly have sex if there aren't ready for a pregnancy, simple, and guys need to stop bothering women so much about...it, I mean women are women, I think guys need to leave them alone, and let them live there lives and stop being so...if you know what I mean, childish, I mean it's okay for a guy to think a woman is cute or sexy, but they should leave it at that, if there not ready to really love and sacrifice for her. (I wish guys loved women by taking care of them and putting them number 1 in this life, instead of always being concerned about big number 1 which is themselves, women aren't sex tools after all, they're so selfish, a man should sacrifice for his lover, and I mean sacrifice, but the woman should be so sweet and lovely that she deserves it, and she should want to be, but there are a lot of women out here who aren't like that, thus they aren't really bride material, and that's okay, 'cause they're just being them.)

Why do you feel it's wrong? Do you feel a fertilized egg is a person? why do you believe this to be the case?

 

[dAVID_]

As many have said before me, prohibiting abortions will only make it worse. If you remove the option to have a safe abortion with proper equipment and medical attention, then there's a good chance the abortion will be done safely. If we prohibit abortions it'll be done illegally with persons that might not have proper medical training or the right equipment. The decision to give life or to not give life should completely rely on the woman.

 

[Sheimi]

I know what my answer is and it would attract a lot of hate.

 

[FAST6191]

I know what my answer is and it would attract a lot of hate.

We have had basically variation on theme from "under no circumstances" to "very select circumstances" to "do it if you have to but try not to" to "Default to why not? Probably make your life better if you do" and much discussion of the qualifications for any of those. Throughout all that we seem to have remained civil, maybe slightly provocative if someone has not providing reasoning or has a massive hole in their logic but that is why it is called a discussion/debate.

And all that aside, abortion comes from one thing: unwanted pregnancy.

Others have taken the other parts but that is wrong. There have been plenty of cases where a pregnancy is sought but it ended up ectopic (risk to both host and parasite), with serious congenital defects, in cases of multiple pregnancy leaving all them to mature would put one or more of them at risk or the host, the mother has maybe subsequently been diagnosed with something for which the treatment will damage the foetus but waiting many months will be too long to save the mother) and I could probably carry this on for a while. Unless you want to argue those are all wanted, just not wanted enough then yeah.
That said go with the other calls for expansion first.

 

[Lord M]

Its a shame, life is not a toy, but i think it depend on cases:
better an abortion instead to give to that kid a horrible life.

 

[gamesquest1]

honestly I'm in 2 minds, I can see the case in some circumstances such as children (under the age of 18), incest, rape etc and probably for very early abortions so people can rectify honest mistakes( i.e ripped condoms etc)

personally I think anyone over 18 should have the cognitive understanding to use protection if they want to be getting it on there is a huge range of options at this point, I feel at some point some women decided abortion is a form of contraceptive where they can play a game of chance and shirk responsibility for their actions/choices, and as some have mentioned if women are allowed to shirk responsibly for their sexual choices then men also should be allowed to say "unless I sign up for the child I'm not responsible" both sides should agree to the responsibility of a child if that's the way the game is going to be from now on

that said the case of it being ok for rape victims opens up the door to the women who just want abortions to say "oh yeah I was raped again for the 17th time abortion pl0x" which would do nothing but inflate rape figures with baloney cases just so people could get abortions

personally I should think there should be more education about responsibility of women to take precautions when having sex if they don't want to get pregnant (and I'm sure someone will say "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MAN".......well I rebuttal with the "her body, her choice" sentiment people are so keen of), and the system needs to be updated to acknowledge that unless a man is in a long term relationship with someone or actively trying for children that liability for children should be held to a much lower tier unless men get equal opportunity to be granted custody of children, maybe even have the ability to be exempt if contested unless the mother agrees to a paternity test as there are way to many stories I have seen in the US of men driven into poverty and homelessness or even arrested over child maintenance who weren't even the biological father which is insane

 

[Fates-Blade-900]

Why do you feel it's wrong? Do you feel a fertilized egg is a person? why do you believe this to be the case?

1)Because God made life, and it's sin for us to take it, "Thou shalt not kill".
2)Yes I do.
3)Because God made life, and it's sin for us to take it, "Thou shalt not kill".

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I appreciate the message of most of your second paragraph, but...

Why not?

They shouldn't because they aren't ready for pregnancy, if a woman is not ready for pregnancy they shouldn't have sex willingly, without condoms of course.

 

[osaka35]

1)Yes I do.
2)Yes I do.
3)Because God made life, and it's sin for us to take it, "Thou shalt not kill".

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


They shouldn't because they aren't ready for pregnancy, if a woman is not ready for pregnancy they shouldn't have sex willingly, without condoms of course.

No, why do you feel a fertilized egg is a person? This thinking is not biblical and it's not scientific. So why believe it?