Gaming Nintendo Confirms Wii U Has Flopped, Slashes Sales Forecast By ~70%

[Foxi4]

So if Honda is making the majority of their profits from cars and their motorcycles only make a small profit are we then going to say Honda is failing as a company and they need to abandon the motorcycle division?

Business is about making money. If the motorcycles are adding to their profits I am sure they are probably just fine continuing to make them. And people who enjoy Honda motorcycles don't deserve to have you griefing them because you think Honda motorcycles are not "good" enough.

*Sighs deeply* This isn't an instance of Honda's motorcycle division failing, this is an instance of one particular motorcycle in their line of successful motorcycles not being up to par, which is a cue for improving their future products, not a red alert situation where they have to close the whole division post haste. It still sold, not particularly well though, which doesn't make it a good motorcycle - it didn't take the market by storm, it just vegetated on it, so it needs improvements.

 

[Black-Ice]

Why are you discussing Honda and the 64 in a wii u thread?

in-fact a lot of nintendo threads have translated to the 64 somehow, but honda is a new wut for me

 

[blaisedinsd]

In that case, you're failing at point 1 - N64 sales in Europe and Asia were non-existant. I'm not even arguing about superiority here, I'm claiming that the N64 was a poor system because in my opinion, all factors considered, it was. I love the Sega Saturn, but I'm not insane enough to argue that it was successful - it flopped, just like the N64 did, even worse, in fact.

The whole thing about calling it a "poor" system is what I am taking issue with.

I never had an N64. Some people did and they really enjoyed it.

Your rhetoric is trying to accomplish what exactly? Tell those people they are idiots for having enjoyed the system? You don't think they are aware their was a games problem and the console did not sell as well as Nintendo had hoped?

Should I go on and on about what a piece of crap your precious Sega Saturn was? These N64 people are not saying the console was successful as a victor of the mythical and fictional console war, they are saying they enjoyed the system. People don't react well when you come at them saying something they liked a lot is POS. Are you going to admit the Sature was a POS just because it flopped?

 

[Foxi4]

Why are you discussing Honda and the 64 in a wii u thread?

It's becoming more and more distanced from the original point, the original point being that the N64 and the Gamecube showed the exact same signs of decay as the Wii U does now which led to some misguided table flipping for some reason.

The whole thing about calling it a "poor" system is what I am taking issue with. I never had an N64. Some people did and they really enjoyed it. Your rhetoric is trying to accomplish what exactly? Tell those people they are idiots for having enjoyed the system? You don't think they are aware their was a games problem and the console did not sell as well as Nintendo had hoped?

Should I go on and on about what a piece of crap your precious Sega Saturn was? These N64 people are not saying the console was successful as a victor of the mythical and fictional console war, they are saying they enjoyed the system. People don't react well when you come at them saying something they liked a lot is POS. Are you going to admit the Sature was a POS just because it flopped?

It was a poor system because it failed to meet global appeal (flopped in Europe and Asia), had a small and poor software library out of which only a handful of titles was worth playing (thankfuly it had a couple of must-haves which are its saving grace) and it was poorly designed (overengineered hardware with obsolete storage and a terrible controller).

I won't go out and call the people who enjoyed it idiots - it's their right to enjoy whatever system they like, power to those people. What I'm saying is that the system was objectively poor - from the library standpoint, the hardware standpoint (not so much the actual specs which were excellent, rather the overall execution) and the sales standpoint. This has nothing to do with people enjoying particular games. You're treating my criticism of a video game system as personal insults towards the Nintendo fanbase, which is bizzare to me.

As for the Sega Saturn, I'll be the first to say that it was overengineered and had terrible sales. In its own generation it was the bottom of the barrel system and it flopped terribly. Its appeal surfaces now as a retro system, but at the time of its release it was grossly overshined by the PlayStation and as such a "POS" system.

 

[blaisedinsd]

*Sighs deeply* This isn't an instance of Honda's motorcycle division failing, this is an instance of one particular motorcycle in their line of successful motorcycles not being up to par, which is a cue for improving their future products, not a red alert situation where they have to close the whole division post haste. It still sold, not particularly well though, which doesn't make it a good motorcycle - it didn't take the market by storm, it just vegetated on it, so it needs improvements.

Not every motorcycle needs to be super successful. If someone really enjoyed a less successful one they don't need you going on and on about what a POS it is.

That's what you don't get. No one is claiming the N64 was successful, or had the best gaming library, or anything like that....they have simply said I liked it and I played some great games on it. There is no reason for you to respond to people saying those things that the thing they loved was a failure and a POS.

You may as well criticize their dead retarded kid. It's out of line.

 

[Black-Ice]

blaisedinsd dont resort to personal insults. If you cant back up your points properly, its best to just leave the thread.

A games console is a games console, without games its worthless.
Whether or not a console has "games" is down to personal opinion unless it literally has none.
So the only factual argument is sales. If sales records are displaying a common pattern across multiple console generations, it means you're making the same mistakes.

 

[blaisedinsd]

It's becoming more and more distanced from the original point, the original point being that the N64 and the Gamecube showed the exact same signs of decay as the Wii U does now which led to some misguided table flipping for some reason.

I won't disagree with that. I think the Wii U right now would be lucky to finish with Gamecube numbers the way it's going.

They can't cut the price so I think they should offer a cheaper version with out the gamepad. Lowering the cost of entry and pumping out some good games is the way you turn consoles fortunes around.

The Wii U has some potential to capitalize on some of the popular Wii franchises. I think that is its one hope of being more profitable than the N64 or Gamecube. The Wii had some games that sold huge numbers and Nintendo needs to make great follow ups to those titles and make sure the system is not too expensive from preventing people from jumping in and playing the new versions.

The other point I have made is that if the Wii U is profitable and people who bought it enjoyed it than Nintendo accomplished their goal of making money (maybe not as much as they hoped but profit is better than loss) than everyone is happy except the turds that want to come over and tell the people who enjoy their console what a POS it is. It's those turds that are out of line and that I sort of feel sorry for.

 

[Foxi4]

I won't disagree with that. I think the Wii U right now would be lucky to finish with Gamecube numbers the way it's going.

They can't cut the price so I think they should offer a cheaper version with out the gamepad. Lowering the cost of entry and pumping out some good games is the way you turn consoles fortunes around.

The Wii U has some potential to capitalize on some of the popular Wii franchises. I think that is its one hope of being more profitable than the N64 or Gamecube. The Wii had some games that sold huge numbers and Nintendo needs to make great follow ups to those titles and make sure the system is not too expensive from preventing people from jumping in and playing the new versions.

The other point I have made is that if the Wii U is profitable and people who bought it enjoyed it than Nintendo accomplished their goal of making money (maybe not as much as they hoped but profit is better than loss) than everyone is happy except the turds that want to come over and tell the people who enjoy their console what a POS it is. It's those turds that are out of line and that I sort of feel sorry for.

I won't comment on the profitability of the Wii U as I haven't dug into the most recent data in this regard, however I am glad that we found some common ground. I think our misunderstanding springs from the fact that we have different categories of "poor". Don't get me wrong, both the N64 and the Gamecube were commercially succesful systems, they made money for Nintendo and that's a good thing. My point was that they weren't particularly good systems and they both contributed to Nintendo losing ground in terms of their market share.

I'm not here to sh*t on the N64, the Gamecube or the Wii U for that matter, I don't see a point in doing so. I'm merely underlining a certain negative trend here - people losing faith in Nintendo products due to their repeated failure to compete with the competition's products. The Nintendo fanbase can only take Nintendo products so far - what Nintendo needs is global appeal, the same appeal that made DS and Wii sales skyrocket. That's the point I'm making here.

 

[blaisedinsd]

blaisedinsd dont resort to personal insults. If you cant back up your points properly, its best to just leave the thread.

A games console is a games console, without games its worthless.
Whether or not a console has "games" is down to personal opinion unless it literally has none.
So the only factual argument is sales. If sales records are displaying a common pattern across multiple console generations, it means you're making the same mistakes.

I didn't resort to personal insults. I have insulted certain behaviors but not certain posters.

I can say if you think a pound of Rocks is heavier than a pound of Feathers that you are a fool. That is not the same thing as simply saying so and so is a fool.

I am not no N64 lover. I have never even finished Mario 64 or Ocarina of time and barely played any N64 games. I however acknowledge these were important games that many loved and that they made people with an N64 very happy. Telling those people they are idiots is what I have a problem with.

I won't comment on the profitability of the Wii U as I haven't dug into the most recent data in this regard, however I am glad that we found some common ground. I think our misunderstanding springs from the fact that we have different categories of "poor". Don't get me wrong, both the N64 and the Gamecube were commercially succesful systems, they made money for Nintendo and that's a good thing. My point was that they weren't particularly good systems and they both contributed to Nintendo losing ground in terms of their market share.

Yes, I can agree with that 100 %.

I just don't agree with what I considered to be some personal bashing of people for simply liking those less commercially successful systems.

I am sort of on a wild theory that Wii U successor may actually be a system that goes for the mainstream gaming audience and could return Nintendo to the dominance of the NES and SNES eras. 3D and Gamepad Gimmic have proved costly mistakes IMO. Nintendo seems like they will go for a no gimmic no non-sense sytem next time like PS4 has done this gen. I think if they can get out something great and get a good head start they could be winner of the next round of the Fictional Console war.

 

[Foxi4]

Yes, I can agree with that 100 %.

I just don't agree with what I considered to be some personal bashing of people for simply liking those less commercially successful systems.

I am sort of on a wild theory that Wii U successor may actually be a system that goes for the mainstream gaming audience and could return Nintendo to the dominance of the NES and SNES eras.

Not every motorcycle needs to be super successful. If someone really enjoyed a less successful one they don't need you going on and on about what a POS it is.

That's what you don't get. No one is claiming the N64 was successful, or had the best gaming library, or anything like that....they have simply said I liked it and I played some great games on it. There is no reason for you to respond to people saying those things that the thing they loved was a failure and a POS.

You may as well criticize their dead retarded kid. It's out of line.

See, that's the problem I have with your approach to the matter. You treat me criticizing a video game system as if I was directly insulting someone's dead relatives - that's taking it a little bit too far, don't you think? I'm not personally insulting the Nintendo fanbase, I'm not pointing my finger at any individuals calling them dumbasses and chumps for enjoying a particular system, I'm criticizing a piece of hardware for its actual, real-life flaws which I believe have contributed to Nintendo's current situation on the market.

Criticism is welcome in this business - it allows companies to see what they've done wrong and rectify that in their future ventures. It's customer feedback and it's actually appreciated - I'm not being hateful, I'm being objective. I wish Nintendo all the best in their businesses, but at the same time, I'm pointing out what they're doing wrong or poorly so that they may improve.

 

[Black-Ice]

I didn't resort to personal insults. I have insulted certain behaviors but not certain posters.

I can say if you think a pound of Rocks is heavier than a pound of Feathers that you are a fool. That is not the same thing as simply saying so and so is a fool.

I am not no N64 lover. I have never even finished Mario 64 or Ocarina of time and barely played any N64 games. I however acknowledge these were important games that many loved and that they made people with an N64 very happy. Telling those people they are idiots is what I have a problem with.

Nah you've been flat out blasting Foxi, AND these "turds" you never specify. But whatever.
I don't know much about feathers and rocks but sure if someone is happy with a console, its clearly a success for them. But people will always disagree and this is the internet, people can disagree all they want to whatever extent.
It doesnt have to be your mission to defeat these people, you wont win.

My view on the Wii U stays the same, it needs a complete re-work or Nintendo need to quickly move on and start again.

 

[Hyro-Sama]

I don't know how you do it, Foxi. I'd be bashing my head against wall 5-10 pages ago.

 

[Ryukouki]

He is Foxi4Eloquent and we must praise him as such.

 

[Hyro-Sama]

You may as well criticize their dead retarded kid. It's out of line.

Gawd. I really do miss ShitGBATempSays.

 

[blaisedinsd]

...and then that problem was remedied by a severe price cut and a slew of new games.

Initially, the 3DS cost about as much as a PSVita and even from a purely technological point of view that was simply insane. Now, the Wii U got its price cut, but it's still more expensive than the PS3 and the XBox 360 with which it can realistically compete and it's less value in comparison to the PS4 and the XBox One which show all signs of having a bright future. I have no doubt that both Sony and Microsoft are keeping their last generation systems on the market and price them competitively to the Wii U partially because they want to pummel the poor thing to death.

As for the games... Well... I don't think I have to elaborate on that point. The Wii U is getting a fistful of first-party games and very little beyond that, and if the N64 and the Gamecube taught us anything then it's the fact that first-party C.P.R will not make your system flourish - it'll be merely keeping it in a vegetative state. Nintendo has to openly go out and offer appealing deals to third party developers to spice things up a bit - the system needs third party support.

I agree with lots of this, well pretty much all of it.

The 3D screen was a big reason 3DS cost so much at launch. At launch they were also selling the HW at a profit. After the price cut they were taking a loss. affordable HW and games is what is needed to succeed in this business. I call it cost vs value. When somethings perceived value is higher than what it costs that is how you make a sale. In this business the games are what gives the value and the price you sell the HW is the cost.

The Wii U had a problem from the start in that they sold the HW at a loss at launch. First time Nintendo has ever done this (but hey it worked for 3DS right, games? who needs em). The Gamepad makes the system way more expensive than it would otherwise be and while some people definitely love it other hate it or don't understand it. Overall it has failed as a gimmic that is supposed to sell the console to the public. They are really screwed because they can't cut the price because they already are taking a loss. The Wii U has always been $300 basically. The Deluxe set was adding a game and accessories mainly for $50, but the console was $300. You can cut prices on Software and accessories more easily because they have higher profit margins. This is why they try to increase value with bundles. This is all artificial price cuts. I think there best course of action is to update the software to make the GP as optional as possible. A few things are not fixable but the Wii U can still do plenty with out the gamepad like play Smash and Mario kart and probably Zelda and Galaxy 3 or whatever. Sell the Wii U for $200 with no GP that has a few incompatible game that require a gamepad. Market it as the budget family friendly console that has BC and that your old controllers and stuff works on and that plays those games that were great on Wii but in full on stunning HD. Sell the Gampad bundle for $300. Sell Gamepad for $100 as an add on that enables enhanced features on many games, ease of use, Off TV play, and unique 2 screen gaming experiences.

The Wii continued to sell extremely well at $200 after the motion control craze died down and it sold largely to budget minded family type of gamers. They need to get the Wii U to hit that demographic because the gimmic part has been a failure.

Gawd. I really do miss ShitGBATempSays.

That was quite the hyperbole wasn't it

 

[Foxi4]

I don't know how you do it, Foxi. I'd be bashing my head against wall 5-10 pages ago.

If you let the conversation devolve into a tug-o-war of personal insults, shoving and pushing then there is no conversation at all. I try to exchange thoughts, even if they're not exactly well-received and I'm quite hard to offend.

There's a couple points I'm trying to convey, and perhaps I'm doing it crudely and hence I'm met with a negative response:

• Handheld consoles and home consoles are apples and oranges appealing to different target audiences, even if those audiences overlap to some extent. Nintendo's handhelds never had any problems with market penetration, sales or software support. Their popularity is unparallel to anything else on the market, so there's not a whole lot of reasons to criticize them. Their home consoles however are on a downward spiral in terms of popularity, which goes to show that there's room for improvement here and that Nintendo should re-examine their priorities in that particular sector of their business
• The N64 and the Gamecube were not popular systems in their respective generations because they failed to meet the par - the N64 had no disc drive and was hard to develop games for, making in undesirable for third party developers, on top of being an expensive system to begin with. The Gamecube was released at the peak of PS2's popularity, it used a storage medium vastly inferior to a full-sized DVD and had no multimedia capabilities and all of this contributed to its downfall. The moral of the story here is that Nintendo should pay more attention to the industry standards and consumer trends prior to releasing home consoles - they have to meet the customer's expectations in terms of features, meet the industry's expectations in terms of hardware and development and give the customer their top game in terms of their own software support - this is the recipe for success. When developing the Wii U, Nintendo ignored the industry standard, continued to use their own obsolete version of the PPC7xx architecture and once again refrained from including functionality which is expected from a home console at this stage of the game - BluRay compatibility and a hard drive, among other things
• Equating criticism of a video game system to personal insult is the very definition of personal bias. Liking a certain system, having fond feelings towards a given brand or enjoying particular games on that system in no way changes the real-life situation of the company responsible it or the situation of that company's current system - it's all nostalgia, and looking at the world through nostalgia glasses distorts reality

I agree with lots of this, well pretty much all of it.

The 3D screen was a big reason 3DS cost so much at launch. At launch they were also selling the HW at a profit. After the price cut they were taking a loss. affordable HW and games is what is needed to succeed in this business. I call it cost vs value. When somethings perceived value is higher than what it costs that is how you make a sale. In this business the games are what gives the value and the price you sell the HW is the cost.

The Wii U had a problem from the start in that they sold the HW at a loss at launch. First time Nintendo has ever done this (but hey it worked for 3DS right, games? who needs em). The Gamepad makes the system way more expensive than it would otherwise be and while some people definitely love it other hate it or don't understand it. Overall it has failed as a gimmic that is supposed to sell the console to the public. They are really screwed because they can't cut the price because they already are taking a loss. The Wii U has always been $300 basically. The Deluxe set was adding a game and accessories mainly for $50, but the console was $300. You can cut prices on Software and accessories more easily because they have higher profit margins. This is why they try to increase value with bundles. This is all artificial price cuts. I think there best course of action is to update the software to make the GP as optional as possible. A few things are not fixable but the Wii U can still do plenty with out the gamepad like play Smash and Mario kart and probably Zelda and Galaxy 3 or whatever. Sell the Wii U for $200 with no GP that has a few incompatible game that require a gamepad. Market it as the budget family friendly console that has BC and that your old controllers and stuff works on and that plays those games that were great on Wii but in full on stunning HD. Sell the Gampad bundle for $300. Sell Gamepad for $100 as an add on that enables enhanced features on many games, ease of use, Off TV play, and unique 2 screen gaming experiences.

I agree with what you're saying here - the gamepad is a huge price inflator and the only things that can entice customers at this stage of the game are affordable bundles with good value, which is exactly what Microsoft is doing with their XBox One as well. Many people are going to jump on the Titanfall package. It's a psychological thing - selling a system that's ready to play straight out of the box. The situation looks even better now, after the UK price cut - I hope that other regions will follow suit to match the price of the PlayStation 4. Perhaps a Kinect-less bundle would be a good idea, but for now Microsoft is investing heavily into the peripheral, much like Nintendo is into the gamepad.

 

[osirisjem]

They never were (Marketing the Wii U to hard core gamers) in the 1st place.

You have a short memory.

 

[blaisedinsd]

See, that's the problem I have with your approach to the matter. You treat me criticizing a video game system as if I was directly insulting someone's dead relatives - that's taking it a little bit too far, don't you think? I'm not personally insulting the Nintendo fanbase, I'm not pointing my finger at any individuals calling them dumbasses and chumps for enjoying a particular system, I'm criticizing a piece of hardware for its actual, real-life flaws which I believe have contributed to Nintendo's current situation on the market.

Criticism is welcome in this business - it allows companies to see what they've done wrong and rectify that in their future ventures. It's customer feedback and it's actually appreciated - I'm not being hateful, I'm being objective. I wish Nintendo all the best in their businesses, but at the same time, I'm pointing out what they're doing wrong or poorly so that they may improve.

I see what your saying but I just didn't agree with how you were going about it. It came off to me as a smug person looking down on people who enjoy Nintendo when they are on top in the console war or on the bottom.

And as I pointed out much of the criticism is off base because as much as you want to slam the N64 (does gamecube get a pass as "good" gaming system even if it sold less than N64?) Nintendos situation on the market was excellent. They were making way more money than their competition.

I have ideas on how Nintendo can be dominant like with the NES and SNES but I just don't think it matters at all to me. I buy the system because it has games I want to play on it. They make the system to make money. We have been having a win win situation so I think some of your criticism is off base. I actually like that Nintendo takes chances and tries to things differently (and I don't want to get in to debate that all their games are rehashes).

 

[Foxi4]

I see what your saying but I just didn't agree with how you were going about it. It came off to me as a smug person looking down on people who enjoy Nintendo when they are on top in the console war or on the bottom.

Glad that we have that cleared up.

And as I pointed out much of the criticism is off base because as much as you want to slam the N64 (does gamecube get a pass as "good" gaming system even if it sold less than N64?) Nintendos situation on the market was excellent. They were making way more money than their competition.

I am still yet to see a profits report that would separate Nintendo 64 profits and the Game Boy line profits, but even if that's the case, I can still criticize obvious flaws of the hardware that led the system to only be "profitable" and not "dominating", or at the very least matching the competition in popularity and support. The profits the Nintendo 64 generated, whatever they may be, are only temporary - you can't put a pricetag on market share or brand popularity though, and when your system causes those to diminish, you have a problem. Again, Nintendo will always have its fair share of die hard fans which will always support their company, but you have to aim higher than that. I don't want to sound doom and gloom, but SEGA and Atari had die hard fans too. We don't see them making consoles anymore.

I have ideas on how Nintendo can be dominant like with the NES and SNES but I just don't think it matters at all to me. I buy the system because it has games I want to play on it. They make the system to make money. We have been having a win win situation so I think some of your criticism is off base. I actually like that Nintendo takes chances and tries to things differently (and I don't want to get in to debate that all their games are rehashes).

I'm glad that Nintendo's taking chances as well and I'm glad that they're trying to innovate, but not all innovation is good. Perhaps Nintendo should start being "innovative" about their hardware, let go of their processor line which dates two generations back, stop putting so much pressure on backwards compatibility which does nothing but hold them back in terms of what their future hardware can do and try a different strategy - catering to the game developer's needs and at the same time continue innovating in the field of what the console can do. The gamepad is a great idea on paper, but what good is Off TV play when there are no games you could play off the said TV? There's only so many games Nintendo can push out of their own software development houses and these days that's just not enough. People want to have a wide selection of titles from a variety of developers, and they can't have that when developers aren't on board. Nintendo has to catch up with its competitiors in terms of specs and continue releasing quality hardware as well as quality software, in other words, they need to step it up.

 

[McHaggis]

You upsetting the Nintendo fans again, Foxi4?