Iwata: Our games, our console.

[RodrigoDavy]

Handhelds aside I guess they lost that ability post SNES give or take a tiny bit of insight with the gamecube.

What would be so radically different about the PS360 that Nintendo games would not work on them?

The N64, lack of CD medium aside, was pretty neat with its four controller ports and controllers with analog pads.

I always found the gamecube to be kind of meh... There was nothing really different from competitors that made it stand out.

The Wii made possible many games that just isn't possible in competitors consoles. WarioWare: Smooth Moves which is my personal favorite game on the Wii just isn't possible in PS360, Mario Kart Wii just wouldn't be the same with traditional controllers.

When I talk about the console designs I mean much more than the technical specifications.

Sega when they stopped making hardware... did I hallucinate the dreamcast?

I meant Sega after they gave up on the Dreamcast.

 

[FAST6191]

The N64, lack of CD medium aside, was pretty neat with its four controller ports and controllers with analog pads.

I always found the gamecube to be kind of meh... There was nothing really different from competitors that made it stand out.

The Wii made possible many games that just isn't possible in competitors consoles. WarioWare: Smooth Moves which is my personal favorite game on the Wii just isn't possible in PS360, Mario Kart Wii just wouldn't be the same with traditional controllers.

When I talk about the console designs I mean much more than the technical specifications.


I meant Sega after they gave up on the Dreamcast.

Four controller ports had variously existed as multitaps for years and were quite popular on many things (four player bomberman and four player micro machines* both on the megadrive -- what joy they brought). Analogs... well there was joysticks going back many many years and a few people were toying with it in various forms prior to then.

*this even had the extra ports in the cartridge.

I know that is what you meant, my further contention was the dreamcast was not such a great time for them software wise either. Their captive devs and publishing wing did OK but for the most part all that ever made them great was forgotten by them and then we have what they did to Sonic.

 

[Deleted member 194275]

Even when we talking about sales, people should understand that if a video game has an reasonable active player base, this is enouth to a player have fun. If lack of hardware sales scare devs, the lack of power scares even more. So, sales and profit are important when we are talking about the future of this or that corporation, but it do not say that "this video game was better than that because it sold better".

Back on a time where we had no online multiplayer, was better to have the most sold video game in order to find people interested on same games as you, but internet solved it a long time ago.

 

[macmanhigh]

The truth of the Matter is Nintendo will outlive ALL other Companies and Studios in the Gaming Business no doubt about it.....Micro$oft and $ony will always tout their Ram and 7000k Resolutions and Cloud based Mental reading and Streaming into the nothingness While Nintendo will do whut it ALWAYS does the Best:

Make Great Games

 

[RodrigoDavy]

Four controller ports had variously existed as multitaps for years and were quite popular on many things (four player bomberman and four player micro machines* both on the megadrive -- what joy they brought). Analogs... well there was joysticks going back many many years and a few people were toying with it in various forms prior to then.
*this even had the extra ports in the cartridge.

Acquiring some multi-tap + extra controllers is a hassle, for example I have a PS2 and bought a ps2 multi-tap only to find out that it doesn't work for ps1 games. Another thing to think about is that many developers didn't bother supporting multi-tap accessories since not everyone had them. For people who don't crap money, it doesn't seem reasonable to buy extra controllers + an expensive accessory just to play a couple of games that support it. Including extra controller ports in the cartridge create more expenses for the developers and thus is undesirable unless the developer think having 3/4-player multiplayer is a key feature of its game

About analogs, there may have been experiments before but Nintendo did a very good decision in implementing it. Sony tried to implement it in the PS1 right after, but few games could take full-advantage of it because the game needed to be designed to work with D-pads in mind since many people didn't have a Dualshock controller.

Using your logic, one could easily argue that MS Live wasn't in any way innovative since online games on PC had existed for years by then.

 

[FAST6191]

Acquiring some multi-tap + extra controllers is a hassle, for example I have a PS2 and bought a ps2 multi-tap only to find out that it doesn't work for ps1 games. Another thing to think about is that many developers didn't bother supporting multi-tap accessories since not everyone had them. For people who don't crap money, it doesn't seem reasonable to buy extra controllers + an expensive accessory just to play a couple of games that support it. Including extra controller ports in the cartridge create more expenses for the developers and thus is undesirable unless the developer think having 3/4-player multiplayer is a key feature of its game

About analogs, there may have been experiments before but Nintendo did a very good decision in implementing it. Sony tried to implement it in the PS1 right after, but few games could take full-advantage of it because the game needed to be designed to work with D-pads in mind since many people didn't have a Dualshock controller.

Using your logic, one could easily argue that MS Live wasn't in any way innovative since online games on PC had existed for years by then.

On xbox live. People have argued that, myself included at points, and it usually does come with the qualifier "for consoles" when talking about innovation.

On the multitap, yeah I would have liked more. I am not sure your example is all that useful "oh no backwards compatibility can sometimes be a pain" is not all that as far as the starting point for an argument goes. I was mainly discussing the SNES and Megadrive though for that as it was big there (bomberman, micro machines, sports games and more http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?119467-Genesis-Mega-Drive-multiplayer-games and the SNES http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/916396-snes/faqs/31073 )

"experiments"... Joysticks and similar such things were a way of life as far as the likes of the C64, Amiga and everything else like that went. For the PS1 stuff in my estimation it ranks as about the only successful/damn near mandatory hardware tweak/upgrade/change in history give or take how you might feel about the xbox controller S (not really a change as you could have played every game that worked with a controller S with the giant thing they first put out), the wii motion plus (not quite so mandatory as far as things go) or the N64 expansion pack (I can see this and many of the best games for the N64 used it but it mandatory might be a stretch). On the other hand if you were using an old PS1 controller a year after Dark forces was ported you were doing it wrong.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

On xbox live. People have argued that, myself included at points, and it usually does come with the qualifier "for consoles" when talking about innovation.

On the multitap, yeah I would have liked more. I am not sure your example is all that useful "oh no backwards compatibility can sometimes be a pain" is not all that as far as the starting point for an argument goes. I was mainly discussing the SNES and Megadrive though for that as it was big there (bomberman, micro machines, sports games and more http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?119467-Genesis-Mega-Drive-multiplayer-games and the SNES http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/916396-snes/faqs/31073 )

"experiments"... Joysticks and similar such things were a way of life as far as the likes of the C64, Amiga and everything else like that went. For the PS1 stuff in my estimation it ranks as about the only successful/damn near mandatory hardware tweak/upgrade/change in history give or take how you might feel about the xbox controller S (not really a change as you could have played every game that worked with a controller S with the giant thing they first put out), the wii motion plus (not quite so mandatory as far as things go) or the N64 expansion pack (I can see this and many of the best games for the N64 used it but it mandatory might be a stretch). On the other hand if you were using an old PS1 controller a year after Dark forces was ported you were doing it wrong.

That's what he's saying though, analog back then, wasn't used in 3D games like N64 games were. And even then, when the PS1 offered 3D games, it didn't have analog mandatory which made movement stiff and weird. And Nintendo basically made it the norm and must have for consoles.

 

[FAST6191]

3d movement governed by joystick type arrangements goes way back for flight/driving/space sims. The vertical/3d parts of FPS and adventure were somewhat new concepts mainly by virtue of 3d capable of being action heavy was new (though 3d itself was not so new outside the flight/driving/space-- things like Archipelagos and ray tracing type things had existed for years)
On the PS1 stuff I can admit I might be misremembering things/having a ground view rather than an overview but basically everything got analogue mode post dual shock controller and it was largely assumed you were rocking them.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

The truth of the Matter is Nintendo will outlive ALL other Companies and Studios in the Gaming Business no doubt about it.....Micro$oft and $ony will always tout their Ram and 7000k Resolutions and Cloud based Mental reading and Streaming into the nothingness While Nintendo will do whut it ALWAYS does the Best:

Make Great Games

Surely your quick Google Images search for "Nintendo consoles" has provided irrefutable proof that Nintendo makes the best games.

And let's all be honest here, Sony has made the best games of the generation.

;o;

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Surely your quick Google Images search for "Nintendo consoles" has provided irrefutable proof that Nintendo makes the best games.

And let's all be honest here, Sony has made the best games of the generation.

;o;

That I can't deny... HOWEVER

Thats only near the END of the generation. I'll still take Mario Galaxy 2 over say Uncharted 2. Reminds me of the Pach-Attack, Sony and Nintendo delivered, Microsoft did not.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

That I can't deny... HOWEVER

Thats only near the END of the generation. I'll still take Mario Galaxy 2 over say Uncharted 2. Reminds me of the Pach-Attack, Sony and Nintendo delivered, Microsoft did not.

To be fair I'd say SMG2 is an amazingly well designed game that's completely forgettable. I could talk a lot about Uncharted 2, the only thing I remember about Super Mario Galaxy 2 is that I played it and it was fun. Nintendo makes games that are like technically flawless and mechanically brilliant but just have like nothing memorable. Uncharted was filled with memorable set pieces and characters and really is one of the defining action franchises throughout gaming.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

To be fair I'd say SMG2 is an amazingly well designed game that's completely forgettable. I could talk a lot about Uncharted 2, the only thing I remember about Super Mario Galaxy 2 is that I played it and it was fun. Nintendo makes games that are like technically flawless and mechanically brilliant but just have like nothing memorable. Uncharted was filled with memorable set pieces and characters and really is one of the defining action franchises throughout gaming.

That's where me and you disagree. I think Mario Galaxy 2, while a sequel, felt enttirely different. Don't get me wrong, I loved Uncharted 2, but Uncharted 3 was different. As I said, Pachter said it best, Nintendo has that something that, after 30 years, people still want more. I loooooooooooooved Mario Galaxy 1, but MG2 did it better. You can say what you want, but Nintendo has that something that Sony/Microsoft can't recreate.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

That's where me and you disagree. I think Mario Galaxy 2, while a sequel, felt enttirely different. Don't get me wrong, I loved Uncharted 2, but Uncharted 3 was different. As I said, Pachter said it best, Nintendo has that something that, after 30 years, people still want more. I loooooooooooooved Mario Galaxy 1, but MG2 did it better. You can say what you want, but Nintendo has that something that Sony/Microsoft can't recreate.

My issue isn't that the first game was better or anything, I think SMG2 was better designed, it was just that the game was still completely forgettable. Everyone goes "OOH A NEW MARIO GAME I WANT IT!" and they beat it in a weekend and it's done for. I put maybe 12 hours into my playthrough and never went back and never have the desire too. Nor do I even think about the game, there's some games I can talk about for longer than I've played but all I can say about like every Nintendo game is "it was a well designed fun game." They're not memorable. Uncharted 2 was pretty memorable, as was Uncharted 3.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

My issue isn't that the first game was better or anything, I think SMG2 was better designed, it was just that the game was still completely forgettable. Everyone goes "OOH A NEW MARIO GAME I WANT IT!" and they beat it in a weekend and it's done for. I put maybe 12 hours into my playthrough and never went back and never have the desire too. Nor do I even think about the game, there's some games I can talk about for longer than I've played but all I can say about like every Nintendo game is "it was a well designed fun game." They're not memorable. Uncharted 2 was pretty memorable, as was Uncharted 3.

See that's where the spectrum differentiates.... (AND HOLY FUCK I SPELLED THAT RIGHT LISTENING TO GANGNAM STYLE), but Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are two of the highest rated games in history. Not your cup of tea? That's fine, I can see why. But I can see how MG2 went above MG1. I just beat MG2 actually. Uncharted 2 while having a better location and exploration, the ending completely ruined it. Uncharted 3 I wont lie would be in top 10 if not top 5.

(I apologize if I'm not making sense, I'm like 2 bottles of wine and 5 cans of beer drunk...)

 

[emigre]

Nintendo has that something that Sony/Microsoft can't recreate.

And with games like The Last of Us and Halo, Sony and Microsoft have done something Nintendo can't recreate.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

And with games like The Last of Us and Halo, Sony and Microsoft have done something Nintendo can't recreate.

No they can't, but Nintendo isn't about story at all, maybe in Zelda, but they have a long way to go, but you can't deny, that they have that something that everybody wants.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

And with games like The Last of Us and Halo, Sony and Microsoft have done something Nintendo can't recreate.

You mean good games and not the same bored franchises?

top lel

No they can't, but Nintendo isn't about story at all, maybe in Zelda, but they have a long way to go, but you can't deny, that they have that something that everybody wants.

Zelda has like no story.

And to be honest good level designs come a dime a dozen with the right devs. Nintendo is not alone in the level design department. So what is it? Environment and atmosphere? Nope because most of their games are the same generic places and when they tried something atmospheric and moody (Twilight Princess) everyone cried about it. Characters? Nope because they're just catchphrases and costumes, they're basically as memorable as whatever brightly colored animal is on your cereal box. If you want good level designs they're not hard to come by, if games like Rayman have taught us anything it's that developers can make games on the same level as Nintendo but without relying on old and worn characters.

The more I think about Nintendo games the more lackluster I find them. They're usually very well designed but the lack substance.

 

[Bake]

Iwata seems like such a ridiculous guy.

 

[Nathan Drake]

Thats where me and you disagree. I think Mario Galaxy 2, while a sequel, felt enttirely different. Don't get me wrong, I loved Uncharted 2, but Uncharted 3 was different. As I said, Pachter said it best, Nintendo has that something that, after 30 years, people still want more. I loooooooooooooved Mario Galaxy 1, but MG2 did it better. You can say what you want, but Nintendo has that something that Sony/Microsoft can't recreate.

You totally missed Guild's point.

Games like Uncharted feel like an experience where you hit the end and have a lot of memorable moments courtesy of characters that made a big impact. It leaves you talking about the game like you would a movie in many respects, but still leave the recognition that you experienced it all first hand as a player. Nintendo games tend to miss that (even Zelda where the players rarely change and locales simply morph) and leave you saying "that looked nice and played wonderfully", but don't give you that feeling of awe in the same way. I think that comes from walking into a Nintendo game knowing exactly what to expect though. You may not know what to expect visually, but you always know, at least to the point of a pretty well established outline, what to expect from Nintendo's story telling. If it's Mario, you'll have Bowser and either level to level progression, or some variation of star collecting. If it's Zelda, you'll have some first dungeons followed by some major new sword followed by more dungeons, leading to some end boss that almost will certainly have something to do with Ganon.

It isn't like Nintendo games aren't fun, pretty, or memorable as individual titles to a certain degree. They just don't affect somebody the same way as action titles on other platforms tend to in terms of story, and don't present somebody that's memorable because of their actions in the story, but memorable because they've existed for a very long time. In this sense, it'd be quite easy to play through Mario Galaxy or Mario Galaxy 2 and a few months from now, simply rank it as another Mario game that you beat that was kinda cool to play, whereas even eight months since I last played Uncharted 2, I can still tell you just about every detail of the story, the impact of character actions, whether or not I liked certain characters based on how they were portrayed, etc. Depth, when compared between a Nintendo title and a game like Uncharted 1 or 2, just isn't even remotely comparable, and at the end of the day, that does matter at least a little.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

You mean good games and not the same bored franchises?

top lel




Zelda has like no story.

And to be honest good level designs come a dime a dozen with the right devs. Nintendo is not alone in the level design department. So what is it? Environment and atmosphere? Nope because most of their games are the same generic places and when they tried something atmospheric and moody (Twilight Princess) everyone cried about it. Characters? Nope because they're just catchphrases and costumes, they're basically as memorable as whatever brightly colored animal is on your cereal box. If you want good level designs they're not hard to come by, if games like Rayman have taught us anything it's that developers can make games on the same level as Nintendo but without relying on old and worn characters.

The more I think about Nintendo games the more lackluster I find them. They're usually very well designed but the lack substance.

Okay I got say this, not only your post, but others, they come up as blue for me, and I got no notification.

And I mean Skyward Sword not Twilight Princess. TP tried, but it failed. SS was closer but IMO (others have praised it), it felt broken. They're close to giving a good story, more scenes involving Zelda, Impa and Zelda. Actually someone on Kotaku had a good idea that I thought would work. Zelda and others, give them voices, but a made up languages. Link remains silent. But for me, I would be happy if Zelda remained silent because I always felt like Link and a connection to the girl (Zelda).