Hacking Feeling conflicted about Wii U dumps

[momocop]

Oh I never got banned on the Wii. I can imagine they will start to ban modder on the Wii U

 

[BenRK]

I am worried about piracy because of the fact that it did affect the Wii. The Wii sold almost 95m+ units and about which maybe 1-2 million units were modded. That may seem like a really small amount of piracy but the main thing is game sales. 1% of Consoles were modded but that 1 million modders are now a loss to the developers because not many games cant get more then 10 million sales. So now it becomes a big chunk of game sale profits.

Dude... I don't know if you know this, but it's rare for a game to sell 10 million copies. 2 million sold is considered good by most companies who aren't stupid with money *coughEAACTIVISIONSQUAREENIXETCcough*

Selling 10 million copies of any game would be awesome. I mean, on the Wii, only 9 games sold 10 million or more, and most of those were pack in titles for the Wii it self (stuff like Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, etc). The 360 has only 6 games that hit over 10 million, and those were Call of Duty, Halo 3, and Minecraft. And the PS3 has no games over the 10 million mark, with only Gran Turismo 5 getting close, and the PS3 is the hardest to hack of last gen consoles.

BUT my little ranting aside, I don't like the idea of the Wii U getting hacked. It's not in a good place right now, and this hack is ONLY good for piracy. You can say "backup," but on GBA temp, "backup" more often then not means "yar har fiddly de, I am a pirate!" On the Wii it self, you might be able to argue for backups as you couldn't download full retail games to the Wii legitly. For the Wii U that's most certainly not the case. Nintendo has offered the ability to use your own hard drive and nearly all retail games can be downloaded to the Wii U via the eShop. At this point, people who want this hack only want it so they don't have to pay for games.

Homebrew is another matter entirely. The ONLY homebrew I want to see on the Wii U is a DVD player app, as that's the only thing seriously lacking from the Wii U, the only thing keeping it from being a perfect console in my book. I'm not even joking. I can hold out hope that the Wii U may get its own DVD app in the future from Nintendo or something, but I know I can only expect it from homebrew.

And yet, I don't want homebrew if it means fucking up the Wii U as a whole. If it means piracy, I don't want homebrew. If it means the Wii U dies, I don't want homebrew.

What the Wii U NEEDS right now is games, and developers wont develop for a console that they perceive as infested with pirates. I don't care if in actuality the Wii U has less then a 1% piracy rate, that's 1% too much. Developers will blow that out of proportion and not develop for it any more. Ever wonder why the PSP died? Cause it was fairly popular in Japan, and it even sold about as well as the 360 did. There was a market there, even in the USA. So why did the PSP die? You know my answer.

 

[Rydian]

I am worried about piracy because of the fact that it did affect the Wii.

The Wii was the top seller in it's generation, selling more while being hacked longer and with much more ease than the 360 and PS3.

So we can see that there's no cause-and-effect relationship between hacking and failure when talking about the consoles.

The Wii sold almost 95m+ units and about which maybe 1-2 million units were modded. That may seem like a really small amount of piracy but the main thing is game sales.

According to this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#PlayStation_3
No games on the PS3 even reached 10 million copies officially (closest is 9.1 million, others are 5 mill or less).
Yet the PS3 took, by far, the longest to even get hacked publicly in this generation. Yet it sold far less individual games too.

So we can see that there's no cause-and-effect relationship between hacking and failure when talking about the game total sales either.

1% of Consoles were modded but that 1 million modders are now a loss to the developers because not many games cant get more then 10 million sales. So now it becomes a big chunk of game sale profits.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/piracy-common-myths.344858/
Pirated copies are not lost copies (as piracy is not theft). You cannot lose something you never had to begin with.

I can imagine it go through the same stages as the PS3 and 360, where playing online can lead to small chance in being banned.

Potentially, yes. I don't have any experience with the Wii U's online though, I don't know if everything goes through a single central server.

 

[PrimusZa1]

In my opinion I think one of the problems its that most of you are too close to the source and tend to gravitate to those of like minds and knowledge. The true percentage of consoles that have been modded past or present is very small compared to the amount in the wild. The "normal" every day person just doesn't do it or in most case's has no idea that it can be done. The comment earlier that most people can't even fix there own computer is very accurate we just assume that the people we interact with on a daily manner just know what we know. Look at it realistically and logically what "normal" person takes apart a $300.00 electronic device, taking the chance of messing something up, voiding the warranty, to see if they can modify it no matter how easy they make it look.

 

[SnAQ]

I don´t want the WiiU hacked either, i´ve decided that i´ll buy the games for the WiiU i actually want for the first time in my life.
I´ve always been a pirate, and all that it leads to (in my case) is that the game i download and try isn´t as fun.
I must have atleast 100 360 games, in which i probally finished 10 of those.
Of those 10 games, i 100% 2 of them, but most of the games i try for maybe 1-2 hours then back in the case with that disc.
I must admit, i do enjoy the process of actually performing the hack, i even bought the tools needed to flash my dvd in my 360 and i always find it enjoyable.

My Wii is softmodded, and it´s the same story there... LOTS of games which i barely even gave more then 2hours...
I think i can count the games i finished on the Wii on one hand.

This is my story:

NES: Nope, no piracy there (well i was like 7-8 at the time) but i did have one of those 100-1 cartridge.
SNES: No piracy there
PSX: Yep, i bought/downloaded iSOS
N64: Yeah, i had my Doctor V64 and ALL the N64 ever released
PS2: No, i actually only kept it for 2-3months then sold the console because i wanted to get drunk that night
Gamecube: No, no piracy
Dreamcast: Yeah, i downloaded games
Xbox: Yeah, i had a modchip and downloaded games
Wii: Yeah, see above
Xbox 360: Yeah, see above
WiiU: No, i haven´t even hacked the vWii (infact, i haven´t even started the vWii) and i really don´t want to do it.

I wonder how many people will e-hate me now...

So, i do not want piracy on the WiiU for one simple reason:

I do NOT appriciate the games as much when the game is free because you know... Who cares if it´s a piece of shit game?
But if i bought a game, i take my time to try to finish the game 100% and for some weird reason i almost never get sick of playing the bought game.

Does anyone recognize themself in what im trying to say here?

I actually don´t want homebrew on my WiiU either, but maybe that´s because i have a more than capable computer hooked up to my tv and if i wanted to play emulators etc etc, i could just aswell do it on the PC instead.

 

[Vappy]

You could just have some self control? Just because you CAN pirate for a system doesn't mean you have to.

 

[SnAQ]

You could just have some self control? Just because you CAN pirate for a system doesn't mean you have to.

Yeah, i guess that´s what im trying to learn.

 

[BIFFTAZ]

Couldn't give a rats ass about piracy TBH... Only like to play 3-4 games at any one time, So I have no need to download a unlimited amount of games that Im not interested in. I like to have at one time just enough games I like & can handle & complete them hopefully 100%. Iv pirated before & just downloaded games for the hell of it, Hardly played like 70%-80% of the titles I downloaded. I can manage to pay for the few games I play so Im happy to do so (Supporting the makers & all that bla bla bla). But, I know in some other parts of the world, Prices of these consoles & games are just a piss take!!!!!! Buying a console & a few games can be tough, Having to work for months & months just to get the console, Then some more weeks/months just to get one game. If I was in that position, I would feel like I'd have to hack my console & download games for free. That's the only time (For me myself) I could justify pirating. If you really are better off & have the money to afford this (Quite expensive) life style/hobby or whatever, Then IMO you should do it.


Only thing that Im hoping to come out of this is custom game hacks, Like custom levels on New Super Mario Bros U & so on. Other than that... Meh...

 

[Taleweaver]

The only reason why I would buy the Wii U is if I could hack it. Not for piracy reasons; but because I find it fun to hack stuff. Its just in me. So; If the hack was to be release, it would increase sales of the Wii U (or at least 1 sale *me* )
Nintendo should be happy that they would get a sale if they just let it be hacked

BULLSHIT!!

Unlike with the wii (or any previous consoles, IIRC), nintendo sells the wiiu at a small loss. Sure, the net result is positive for them as soon as you buy one game, but they most certainly won't be happy for the sale. And that is even if you're telling the truth about not going to pirate it.

...which I don't believe for one second. The reason: it's already hackable. In fact, nintendo doesn't even address it in their updates. Yes, it's "only" the vwii part. But if you're really not into it for the piracy, you would have bought the thing for all the hacks and homebrew that the wii has to offer and that work pretty much straight out of the box on the thing.

But noooo...now that a new hack comes along, that, accidentally, does nothing but allow for illegal games to be played on your wiiu, you will buy the thing? Yeah...perhaps you can convince some twelve-year old kids reading these forums, but I doubt it.

But hey...if you're really having fun hacking consoles...do you mind telling me how to get rawkSD to work on uneek2o on the wii? Both these hacking parts of the wii (especially the first) had quite a bit of guys proclaiming not to be pirates...but despite hacking being "in them", they couldn't get anything to run unless everything was explained to them on a most basic level.

I had no problem when I hacked the Wii, I was very excited, but now with the Wii U game dumps, I don't know HOW I'm supposed to feel

I wasn't active back then, but I've heard it took some years before the hacking and illegal copying really took off. Which means that the thing had already made a huge profit and was enjoying quite some popularity. The wiiu, however, still needs to build up that momentum. Worse: nintendo has created somewhat of a reputation of being easy to hack (which the 3DS is only partially able to disprove), which means that this sort of news WILL have an impact on 3rd party games being developed for it.

Now I see people juggle numbers amount of the small part piracy really plays, but I don't think publishers will listen to that. It's possible that the wiiu will become more popular than those other next-gen consoles "because it's easier to hack"...which, in turn, will turn away 3rd party developers.

I can't tell you how you're supposed to be feeling by this sort of news, but I can say I'm not happy. I haven't bought my wiiu for hacking (Christ...I have two wii's for that, and I'm not even remotely close to finishing all the games I illegally downloaded for it) but for proper games. Instead, it's starting to look like history's repeating itself: third party support already starts passing the wiiu, hacks become apparent and the console will be laughed at for being the inferior tech. And with the latter part of the wii's lifecycle, I think we can agree that's not something we want.

 

[the_randomizer]

I just don't know why I have no trouble downloading old games (which no longer are produced or generate revenue) but feel uncomfortable with games still being made and make revenue. It's hypocritical I'm sure, but it's weird. I wished they waited at least a year before hacking the optical drive like that, but whatever. As long as only a small percentage of people do it (~1-5%) I don't think it'll be an issue.

 

[rednekcowboy]

BULLSHIT!!

Unlike with the wii (or any previous consoles, IIRC), nintendo sells the wiiu at a small loss. Sure, the net result is positive for them as soon as you buy one game, but they most certainly won't be happy for the sale. And that is even if you're telling the truth about not going to pirate it.

...which I don't believe for one second. The reason: it's already hackable. In fact, nintendo doesn't even address it in their updates. Yes, it's "only" the vwii part. But if you're really not into it for the piracy, you would have bought the thing for all the hacks and homebrew that the wii has to offer and that work pretty much straight out of the box on the thing.

But noooo...now that a new hack comes along, that, accidentally, does nothing but allow for illegal games to be played on your wiiu, you will buy the thing? Yeah...perhaps you can convince some twelve-year old kids reading these forums, but I doubt it.

But hey...if you're really having fun hacking consoles...do you mind telling me how to get rawkSD to work on uneek2o on the wii? Both these hacking parts of the wii (especially the first) had quite a bit of guys proclaiming not to be pirates...but despite hacking being "in them", they couldn't get anything to run unless everything was explained to them on a most basic level.



I wasn't active back then, but I've heard it took some years before the hacking and illegal copying really took off. Which means that the thing had already made a huge profit and was enjoying quite some popularity. The wiiu, however, still needs to build up that momentum. Worse: nintendo has created somewhat of a reputation of being easy to hack (which the 3DS is only partially able to disprove), which means that this sort of news WILL have an impact on 3rd party games being developed for it.

Now I see people juggle numbers amount of the small part piracy really plays, but I don't think publishers will listen to that. It's possible that the wiiu will become more popular than those other next-gen consoles "because it's easier to hack"...which, in turn, will turn away 3rd party developers.

I can't tell you how you're supposed to be feeling by this sort of news, but I can say I'm not happy. I haven't bought my wiiu for hacking (Christ...I have two wii's for that, and I'm not even remotely close to finishing all the games I illegally downloaded for it) but for proper games. Instead, it's starting to look like history's repeating itself: third party support already starts passing the wiiu, hacks become apparent and the console will be laughed at for being the inferior tech. And with the latter part of the wii's lifecycle, I think we can agree that's not something we want.

Very well articulated post!! Intelligent and well laid out!

However, I'm just at opposite ends with you. If piracy did actually harm a console then why is it that every console that has been hacked to date (with the exception of the DC) been so successful and on the other hand, why have consoles that have not been hacked of late been so dismal? The answer is simple, the industry needs piracy in order to survive. I read an article on this a little while back that someone linked to me and it actually made a lot of sense.

I'm one of the few that actually do buy a game that I truly enjoy and I'll buy a new copy, not used however I am also of mind that I am very thankful for hacks that allow me to load a game up and play it for 10 minutes to see if it suits me. I just got sick and tired of shelling out $60+ for a game only to get it home and absolutely hate it and it sit on a shelf unused.

Developers that complain about piracy are simply using this as an excuse to try and explain away their own shortcomings. They have been dropping like flies since the U's release and there was no mention of a hack anywhere until now. It's that they don't want to put in the effort to make something original that would make use of the U's offerings. They want to design a game that is simple to port to all systems to maximize on profits. Then there is also the fact that Nintendo treats third parties like criminals and that, despite what Nintendo said prior to release, they have gone back to their small target audience rather than having a system that appeals to all gamers.

There is much going on as to why the WiiU is not successful, none of which have to do with Piracy, so please, let's just stop that discussion right there.

 

[beta4attack]

*snip*

I know how you feel and that's my exact same situation! I was a huge DS and Wii pirate, but I began to understand the beauty of getting legit games after purchasing my first 3DS game. Now I don't want to pirate anything.

 

[Taleweaver]

Very well articulated post!! Intelligent and well laid out!

However, I'm just at opposite ends with you. If piracy did actually harm a console then why is it that every console that has been hacked to date (with the exception of the DC) been so successful and on the other hand, why have consoles that have not been hacked of late been so dismal? The answer is simple, the industry needs piracy in order to survive. I read an article on this a little while back that someone linked to me and it actually made a lot of sense.

Thanks for the compliment. But I think you're reading some things I don't exactly say. I'm just not liking mr. no-vowels's "I just like to hack things" and "nintendo should be glad for it" arguments, as they're based onto...erm...well, I don't know what he's basing that opinion off, but it's not on reality.

I'd like to read that article, because I would have given a different answer to that question: the most bang-for-your-buck console usually wins out (in other words: I agree with extra credits here).
I know hackers make it sound like console manufacturers are lazy or forgetful, but decent security measures isn't easy to do. It takes dedication, manpower and integrity on practically all levels. That drives up the cost of manufacturing, thus effectively lowering the bang-for-your-buck part of the console (your end users aren't going to thank you for having state-of-the-art anti-piracy protection).

The wii was able to become as popular, not "just" because of the movement thingy, but also because it was the cheapest console. I don't have numbers of the amount of money spent on security, but my guess is that, compared to MS and sony, it also had the smallest budget on security, thus allowing for better hacks.


Keep also in mind: just because I'm saying this is bad news for nintendo that it'll harm the console much. If true, the popularity will certainly go up on the short term. What I'm worried about, though, is that developers won't be making/porting games for it. And that will hurt the console in the long run.

 

[rednekcowboy]

What I'm worried about, though, is that developers won't be making/porting games for it. And that will hurt the console in the long run.

Another great post, it is nice to have an adult conversation on this subject.

I'm not worried about devs not making any games for it because, to be honest, they haven't yet and despite what Nintendo fed us at the beginning, I don't think they ever would have even if a hack did come.

I wish I still had that article or the quote or whatever it was. It explained the industry very well and the relationships between the three sides (consumer, industry and piracy) and how they were very much dependent upon each other for survival. If you remove one, the triangle collapses which is very much evident on systems like the vita.

 

[cracker]

I always enjoy messing with devices I own for various reasons. Sometimes it will be purely recreating the same steps as the install guide/tutorial describes but I love when I can create hardware and software hacks that are modifications of others' work or more so when it is completely all me.

I have backup capabilities for pretty much everything but honestly the vast majority of usage on my devices is legit. I have a Wii that is both hard- and soft-modded. It was played on for maybe 60 hrs total since I got it 6 months or so after launch then it went into a box for a very long time and currently it is exclusively a Netflix box. My Wii U serves the same purpose even though vWii is hacked and I have some paid VC/WW titles. I have 3 Xbox originals that are used for XBMC and rarely gaming. Notice a theme with my consoles? I actually do use my handhelds for gaming (PSP primarily for PSX/emulation) though I've wasted time that could be spent playing decent games with casual Android gaming.

The point of this is to +1 the fact that others have made about many console modifiers not rampantly pirating everything (save completists) in the very least not losing huge amounts of sales for games the people wouldn't have bought anyway.

 

[Bladexdsl]

shovelware downloads will go through the roof

 

[Ray Lewis]

Blah blah, piracy myths, gut feelings.... The point is that regardless, wiikeyu is going to launch. People cannot make/use those backups without the...wiikeyu. People on forums may do this. Most likely will not. Even then, wiikeyu is the first and no competition (yet). Could easily be $50-$100 per unit. Projecting here. Looking at past trends. This is not like a soft mod, plug in USB drive, go to work thing here. Can we keep perspective? Lol.

 

[Bladexdsl]

when the 1st wiikey on wii came out here i think it was god damn close to $150

 

[rich333]

the Wii & DS had heaps of shit games because of Nintendos core market, kids. It became a cash grab with everyone putting out shovelware as quick as they could. Parents would rather buy a cheap game than a good one and half the time the kids didnt know better anyway, as long as the boxart looked okay.

Thats what you need to be concerned about - how Nintendo markets the system, that will determine what devs put out on the system. They may use piracy as an excuse to 'gamers' but the truth is they feel there is not as big an audience for their game on a system who's userbase is mainly kids. Hacked or not - its who will BUY the games that is important.

Hacking won't kill a system, but poor marketing will. and it will be Nintendos fault, not the hackers or pirates out there.

 

[the_randomizer]

Aaaaaand I was douche for having made this thread.