When is pirating ok? (discussion)

[Sychophantom]

Rather than edit, I'll just continue.

How many times after borrowing a game do you buy it? I've done that. In that case, I'd cay borrowing helped. I know, I'm not everyone, and some would just pirate. Can't speak for them.

I think piracy shouldn't be the major thing devs need to worry about. Making a better game should be number one.

 

[Rydian]

I'd sue for a blowjob. But lawyers, man.....they'd want half of that blowjob. No lawyer deserves that.

Rent, play over a friend's house, borrow from a library.....that isn't a lost sale. SOMEONE bought the game/movie/music/book/ocelot. In some cases of piracy, still, someone bought the item, usually (I knew a few Gamestop employees who would rip games while at work and share with friends).

That whole used game thing is an old arguement. I like used games. I see buying a used game as supporting a local business. (I rarely buy used games from Gamestop or national chains. Local places, yes, I like supporting local places). I know devs get jack shit from that, but it keeps a roof over the head of someone I consider a friend. That's fine by me.

My concern is the idea that the original company is harmed whenever people pirate. Nothing happens to the original company or it's assets.

I think piracy shouldn't be the major thing devs need to worry about. Making a better game should be number one.

The product and service should be the focus, yes. If you can give a better experience than the pirates, people will be encouraged to buy instead of pirating.

This is why DRM (supposed to prevent piracy) can kill games...
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Mac/product-reviews/B000FKBCX4

And also why Steam (an alternative to piracy) is making a killing.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/25/gabe-newell-on-piracy-and-steams-success-in-russia/

 

[Mantis41]

And also why Steam (an alternative to piracy) is making a killing.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/25/gabe-newell-on-piracy-and-steams-success-in-russia/

I wonder how many of the Russian sales can be attributed to the dlc key for sale sites. I purchased BL2 and the season pass via this method. Paid less than half the price for the RU version.

 

[Sychophantom]

My concern is the idea that the original company is harmed whenever people pirate. Nothing happens to the original company or it's assets.

I suppose if you want to look at it in a more tangible way that doesn't make sense, it might be like working for McDonald's and not being paid because there are people across the street eating burgers not made in your store.

Your store didn't lose a sale, but dammit, someone is eating a burger you didn't sell them. Must be burger piracy! Your business is doomed!

I worked a long day today without much caffeine. Apologies.

 

[kristianity77]

Pirating for me is OK as its always on a system Id never have bought anyway. I have a totally legit 360 with about 80 odd games collected over the past 5 years. I also had a totally legit PS2 for the generation prior to that with countless games.

However, I also have a PSP full to the brim with ISOs and I justify this by the fact that if i had to shell out £100 for one and £25 quid a game when they were in fashion, id never have purchased one. It was the same with the DS. I had one of them, complete with Flash Card. Had it not been for that id never have gotten one. So whose sales am i directly affecting? No ones. If i had bought one or not, it wouldnt stop the games or the hardware being readily available anywhere.

I pay for a system i want, and pirate others for which i only have a passing interest

 

[Sephtenshi]

Where I am from 3DS games cost around U$70,00 (using paper mario as an example). I'm not saying that makes it right to pirate and I honestly buy most (if not all) my favorite games for all my consoles (which are also all bought at official retailers, and there are A LOT of unofficial ones in my country). But most people I know only pirate because they can't afford it and honestly? Life's too short. If you want to see a movie and can't buy it? Downloading it is not so bad. It's not like marvel got fu**ing poor because of all the avengers downloads... I'm also pretty sure Satoru Iwata doesn't cry at night because of all the ilegal Nintendo games downloads.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Pirating is never okay. There's no reason not to buy it. People do it anyways, like downloading music.

 

[Valwin]

As long as <5% people pirate, I say it's healthy for the gaming economy.

/quote]

As long as <5% people steal, I say it's healthy for the economy.

 

[Rydian]

I suppose if you want to look at it in a more tangible way that doesn't make sense, it might be like working for McDonald's and not being paid because there are people across the street eating burgers not made in your store.

Your store didn't lose a sale, but dammit, someone is eating a burger you didn't sell them. Must be burger piracy! Your business is doomed!

I worked a long day today without much caffeine. Apologies.

When you work for McDonald's, you're under an agreement that you get paid no matter the sales... that's because you're on salary, not commission.

If, however, you were in a job where you get paid on commission, customers getting their stuff from other places would mean a lack of sales, and thus money, for you. A lack of it, not a loss of it (as it's not there to begin with).

But that gets into the whole "can we sue somebody for giving ANOTHER guy a blowjob instead of me?" thing again.

 

[osaka35]

And I believe that copyright is up to 75 years, I may be wrong, but when I was in school I think that's what it was and Disney was lobbying to get it changed to 100 years, again, not 100% sure. But I also remember hearing (when I worked at EB Games) that the original NES was out of copyright hence the reproductions you can find at the mall different copyright? I don't know.

I'm not sure of the specifics, but another thing to mention is that there is the global laws on copyright, the US copyright laws, the Japanese copyright laws, and every other countries' unique copyright laws. Perhaps the Japanese copyright expired, but the US is going strong (as I stated previously, no copyright after mickey mouse will have expired)? Or maybe Nintendo just sold partial rights to other companies to reproduce the NES hardware or something.

Could be another reason for region locking, if you take into account the various copyright laws around the world. Stronger copyright protection in particular countries. *shrugs* or maybe not. Conjecture is fun.

 

[Sychophantom]

Pirating for me is OK as its always on a system Id never have bought anyway. I have a totally legit 360 with about 80 odd games collected over the past 5 years. I also had a totally legit PS2 for the generation prior to that with countless games.

However, I also have a PSP full to the brim with ISOs and I justify this by the fact that if i had to shell out £100 for one and £25 quid a game when they were in fashion, id never have purchased one. It was the same with the DS. I had one of them, complete with Flash Card. Had it not been for that id never have gotten one. So whose sales am i directly affecting? No ones. If i had bought one or not, it wouldnt stop the games or the hardware being readily available anywhere.

I pay for a system i want, and pirate others for which i only have a passing interest

That username, and that post.....

Don't know if really ironic, really fitting, or some mix in between.

 

[Slave]

Pirating is perfectly OK and in fact should be Encouraged (to show the Distributors that we want the said pirated products), if you answer NO to the 3 following Questions:

1. Is the said product Available in your country? (No 'cuz that game/DVD isnt out in america... for example)
2. If you'd import it online from another country would you be able to use the said product? (no 'cuz my console/DVD player is fu¢#!ng region locked)
3. Is said product planned to be available in a near future and you'd be willing to wait a bit? (no 'cuz the fucking game/Movie is only released in europe/japan and the company doesnt plan on releasing it state side due to lack of popularity or the fact that only a minority of the population knows about it... like true fans of whatever movie/game)

In those cases I believe yes pirating should be encouraged... to hell with it... I WANT that game/movie, but it's not out here, they dont plan to release it here, and I cant buy it to play it here... then pirating is my only option to enjoy it.

ie: The second the 3DS gets hacked, and we can play imported region locked game, I'm friggin' downloading the One PIece 3DS title available in Europe... dont care if the game aint too good according to reviews, I'm a fan of one piece, the game is translated but only released in europe... but I cant play it here... SCREW the ppl that says pirating is bad. If they didnt want their game to be pirated, they should've released it here where I would've bought it.

iie: same thing with movies... I love foreign movies, to name a specific movie, I would TOTALLY Buy both NEW KIDS TURBO/NITRO movies... but they will NEVER come state side, 'Cuz thats a Norwegian local movie production... Dafuq would a Canadian know about them movies? Well I downloaded them, watched, loved the movies, and I would like to buy them... but aint no way in hell it'll ever be available here... so I burned them fu¢#ers up on DVD and pass it around to everyone that want a good crazy laugh.

 

[Sychophantom]

Pirating is perfectly OK and in fact should be Encouraged (to show the Distributors that we want the said pirated products), if you answer NO to the 3 following Questions:

1. Is the said product Available in your country? (No 'cuz that game/DVD isnt out in america... for example)
2. If you'd import it online from another country would you be able to use the said product? (no 'cuz my console/DVD player is fu¢#!ng region locked)
3. Is said product planned to be available in a near future and you'd be willing to wait a bit (no 'cuz the fucking game/Movie is only released in europe/japan and the company doesnt plan on releasing it state side due to lack of popularity or the fact that only a minority of the population knows about it... like true fans of whatever movie/game)

In those cases I believe yes pirating should be encouraged... to hell with it... I WANT that game/movie, but it's not out here, they dont plan to release it here, and I cant buy it to play it here... then pirating is my only option to enjoy it.

ie: The second the 3DS gets hacked, and we can play imported region locked game, I'm friggin' downloading the One PIece 3DS title available in Europe... dont care if the game aint too good according to reviews, I'm a fan of one piece, the game is translated but only released in europe... but I cant play it here... SCREW the ppl that says pirating is bad. If they didnt want their game to be pirated, they should've released it here where I would've bought it.

iie: same thing with movies... I love foreign movies, to name a specific movie, I would TOTALLY Buy both NEW KIDS TURBO/NITRO movies... but they will NEVER come state side, 'Cuz thats a Norwegian local movie production... Dafuq would a Canadian know about them movies? Well I downloaded them, watched, loved the movies, and I would like to buy them... but aint no way in hel it'll ever be available here... so A burn them fu¢#ers up on DVD and pass it around to everyone that want a good crazy laugh.

Except, you can import a European 3DS and the game, making that piracy argument invalid if money was no issue. I have a DVD player that isn't region locked I bought for 30 bucks at Wal-mart. I can buy import DVDs and play them.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Stop with this "is it ok to get pirated games" bs.... Really... I play almost only pirated games... If company wants me to buy its game put it on a reasonable price.... 50$ is not a price for a game... Movie industries create movies with budgets of million dollars and I can enjoy it with 8$ on my cinema... Why the heck do i have to pay 50$ to get a game? Piracy is not the problem of game industry... High prices is... Same thing happened with music industry.... and now they cant sell cds..... Oh and if i didnt play pirated games there was no chance i would pay 50$ to get them... So in the end they dont lose money I just play them pirated instead of not playing them at all... like the majority of guys do Steam seems to have gotten the point though... Bought the new counter strike for 5.50$ That I call a normal price
This is the fact about piracy and nothing else so don't bother wasting your time with the moral aspect of it or when it is ok or not. It is a fact of industry... You can't fight it. You just accept it

Right... Because once you pay that $8 at the cinema you can go back and watch that movie as often as you want. Terrible analogy...

On that topic, part of the problem comes from market saturation (wayyyy too many games pushed out). There were like 790 total NES games released (including all regions) in the 10 or so years before the system was discontinued. The Xbox 360 has over well over 900 games over the course of the 7 1/2 years it's been around. The price of games has remained fairly constant, while the amount of content and work put into them has increased exponentially. Super Mario Bros. 3 was $50 dollars at release. Unless my inflation calculator is on the fritz, that works out to $91.88 in today's dollar...

Another part of the problem comes from gamers and their lack of an attention span. Remember how we used to be able to play Super Mario Bros. or The Legend of Zelda (or Pokemon for those who are into that...) over and over and over and be happy? Now if people finish a game at all they're likely to never touch it again. So gamers bitch about a lack of content when they're the ones rushing through and neglecting their games.

 

[JulietStMoon]

Oh god not this thread again.

Just saying these never end well.

Mine did.

But sheesh, this is like the third one made.

 

[gamefan5]

My concern is the idea that the original company is harmed whenever people pirate. Nothing happens to the original company or it's assets.

The product and service should be the focus, yes. If you can give a better experience than the pirates, people will be encouraged to buy instead of pirating.

This is why DRM (supposed to prevent piracy) can kill games...
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Mac/product-reviews/B000FKBCX4

And also why Steam (an alternative to piracy) is making a killing.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/25/gabe-newell-on-piracy-and-steams-success-in-russia/

I don't really understand this whole DRM thing and how it can affect game quality. Could you explain it to me?

 

[Slave]

Point Taken, maybe I didnt have the best examples... lol

But yes Money will always be an issue... why would I have to buy again another platform that I already own to play a single game? You'd dish out +200$ to buy a foreign region console to play only one game? The reality of the market and people is that to stop me from importing a console and said game is purely economic... no I dont have the money for a second console I already own one... why would I need to buy it again just because of a tiny setting difference that prevents me from playing a game while the other completely identical console that come from another country does. If distributors isn’t making their products legally available, affordable, and on a worldwide basis, they are to blame when people hit torrent websites and download it for free. Note that this isn’t advocacy of piracy—it’s the reality of the market we find ourselves in.

Piracy offers a GRADE A++ services which is too attracting & easy to ppl... you want it? Piracy got it "right here, right now & free... just don't ask where I got it".

I kinda feel it's like a Pawn Shop... they got good stuff, cheap, but I morally question where it comes from originally... lol

 

[Slave]

I don't really understand this whole DRM thing and how it can affect game quality. Could you explain it to me?

Simple:

You Buy a game... original in a store. Install on your PC, boot the game... Oh wait... before booting the game, you need to register the game on the internet... no problem... log in the net, register the game... boot the game again... play the game a bit... Oh wait, Either you loose your internet connection, or the game's company server goes down... something you have no control over... and now you cannot play your game anymore... EVEN THOUGH your game has NOTHING to do with online gaming... its a single player... but because you are not on the internet, or because the game's company servers are down, your game doesnt work because it cannot authentify itself to the game server. You cant play your game until the net is back or the servers are back... but unfortunately... you wanted to play right now, its your only free time... Bought a game, cant play.

Pirated games: install game... play... no more problems.

Which one is more appealing?

 

[retKHAAAN]

Simple:

You Buy a game... original in a store. Install on your PC, boot the game... Oh wait... before booting the game, you need to register the game on the internet... no problem... log in the net, register the game... boot the game again... play the game a bit... Oh wait, Either you loose your internet connection, or the game's company server goes down... something you have no control over... and now you cannot play your game anymore... EVEN THOUGH your game has NOTHING to do with online gaming... its a single player... but because you are not on the internet, or because the game's company servers are down, your game doesnt work because it cannot authentify itself to the game server. You cant play your game until the net is back or the servers are back... but unfortunately... you wanted to play right now, its your only free time... Bought a game, cant play.

Pirated games: install game... play... no more problems.

Which one is more appealing?

I think I'll just game on a console and not have to worry about it at all.

 

[cdoty]

I would say when the product is no longer available for sale and cannot be reasonably purchased (rare games as an example), or the game was never released and has very little chance of seeing a release (cancelled games for older systems).

I think this comes down to the time it takes something to become public domain. In the past, 75 years for a book was somewhat reasonable; but games and their technology become obsolete a lot quicker. I think the IP should be retained for 75 years, but the software should become public domain 5-10 years after the system is no longer sold commercially or 5-10 years after the release whichever comes first. This prevents a company from claiming the PC is still around, or Gamecube games can still be played on the Wii, etc.

And, continuing to babble on, I always felt security features that prevent using backups should be required to be deactivated at some point in the future. Sony should have been required to make a way for non-protected software to run on the original Playstation after it was dead; since it would be impossible to purchase a replacement copy of any game.

I think I'll just game on a console and not have to worry about it at all.

Don't buy any digital games or DLC.