Gamasutra: Vita's biggest challenge - Convincing developers

[Clarky]

All I will say about the Vita is I do think there is an indentity crisis right now for the Vita. I recall back before prelaunch there was apparently videos of Metal Gear Solid 4 running on it and (from memory) a lot of PS3 games shown running on it. I recall someone I know saying "why should I buy a PS3 when he could buy a Vita and get the same experience?" Now a days I see the likes of Mortal Kombat, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, Final Fantasy X HD, Lego Batman 2, Metal Gear Solid HD Collection, Playstation All Star Battle Royale, Rayman Origins, Sly Cooper Thieves In Time, Street Fighter X Tekken and a few more, at an ignorance glance it does seem like the Vita is just merely a portable PS3. Then again some of the Vita games being made appear to try and be flogging a "console experience" rather than say a "vita" experience. Only other thing I can slate it for is 3g model, many had hopes and dreams of being able to play online games on the go yet nobody seems to have found a real use for it. Besides that I reckon the Vita will its feet with some great exclusives eventually

 

[Deleted_171835]

And said games didn't grow on a tree - someone made them first. As I said, the system will sell as the library grows - the Vita has all the time it needs. The PS3 showed quite well that consoles can have a slow start and dominate the market a few years later. Specs are incredibly important, soulx - they dictate the longevity of the system as well as the conditions of development. The less limits a programmer has the better, and the Vita opens many previously closed doors. Developers simply need to be given the time and the incentive to develop for it. Higher specs don't necessarily mean higher development costs - it's entirely up to the developer how many resources should be used.

...but just to make your life feel complete, Vita's MGS4 and FFXIII for now are Call of Duty: Black Ops - Declassified, Killzone: Mercenary, Assassin's Creed: Liberation and Soul Sacrifice.

Specs don't dictate the lifespan of a console. It's silly to say that. The game-library and sales are the biggest factors.

I brought up those games because we knew about them during the PS3 launch. Games were coming. I know I sound like a broken record to others since I've said this already but with the Vita, there is no assurance. There are no high-profile system-selling games announced for 2013. After the holiday season, there's absolutely nothing.

Higher specs do mean higher development costs because developers have to make games that take advantage of the platform if they want their game to sell well. Imagine if someone released a game that looked like a PS2 game visually on the PS3, no one would take it seriously. Right now, it's cheaper to make games for the 3DS than it is for the Vita. Not only that but one platform is selling craploads while the other is dying, if you were a publisher, which one would you choose?

And the PS3 is not dominating the market. Not by a long-shot. In the West, the 360 is currently the best-selling system. In Japan, the PS3 is the best-selling console (right now) simply because there aren't any alternatives now (Wii is now dead while the 360 was DOA). In terms of life-time sales, the Wii is ahead of it having sold 32.66 million units more as of June 2012.

Call of Duty: Black Ops and Assassin's Creed are not comparable at all to the PS3 games I've mentioned. One is a spin-off developed by a B-team (the former) while the other is a mainline entry in one of the biggest franchises worldwide. Call of Duty spin-offs on older handheld platforms have not been very successful nor do they have any of the clout that the home console versions have so what makes you think this spin-off will make a difference?

 

[Foxi4]

*yadayadayada*

The PS3 is currently the fastest-selling video game system, and it's only 3 mil units behind the 360 in total sales - a difference it can still make up - they're going head-to-head, really, so I'd say it turned out pretty well for a system which started at a snail's face. The Wii sold more units simply because it was affordable, not because it was any good. It's the go-to system for all the parents and grandparents buying gifts for children, it's kid friendly so it ramps up the sales. True fact.

Portable CoD games didn't sell well because they were *crap*, not because there was no interest in them. Not to mention that they were on the DS, so they suffered from the "amma gonna downloldeet" syndrome most DS titles had.

I had a feeling you wouldn't like the my game choices for the comparison, but don't worry, you can carry on thinking the way you do.

Vita's sales will get a significant boost when so-called "desirable" titles are released, and seeing that quite a few are on the way, I have no worries.

 

[Veho]

The 3DS's price was unreasonable - it doesn't have the hardware to necessitate it. The Vita is too much of a beast to drop the price to a "3DS" level.

Yes but that's not the point. "It cost as much as another console that didn't sell well at the price either" doesn't justify the price. The hardware might, but Sony needs to work on the marketing. Is it worth the $250? Yes. Does enough people think so? No. That's where marketing should step in. But it didn't.

 

[Foxi4]

Yes but that's not the point. "It cost as much as another console that didn't sell well at the price either" doesn't justify the price. The hardware might, but Sony needs to work on the marketing. Is it worth the $250? Yes. Does enough people think so? No. That's where marketing should step in. But it didn't.

Yyyyep.

Sony originally assumed that they will advertise the system as a "handheld for the grown-up gamers", but that obviously didn't work. There's not a whole lot of "grown-up gamers" - people just stop at some point and, y'know, have lives, unlike most of us. The marketing team behind the Vita actually acknowledged that an there's a media campaign in the working that's supposed to showcase the Vita as a system accessible to all audiences, or so I've heard/read. We'll see where that goes.

 

[Lurker2]

You really don't know how many consoles were bought due to failure of the 360/PS3. It is quite possible 360s sold higher because people bought multiple consoles and we both know PS3 had problems with failures but possibly in lower numbers. Squaretrade statistics claim the PS3 had a lower failure rate but overall who knows.

Currently a lot of gamers are saying CoD on the Vita will be bad and the developer doesn't have the best track record. It might sell well it might not. Lets just not jump to conclusion about the game just yet without better data to backup our claims.

Soul Sacrifice is the only game coming out for the Vita after the Holidays that might be any good and Killzone doesn't have a release date yet. I think the system would benefit from more ports of PS3 games making it more of a portable PS3 but that is just me.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

For the record, I don't see much of anything announced for the 3DS for the first quarter of 2013 in NA, either.

 

[Foxi4]

You really don't know how many consoles were bought due to failure of the 360/PS3. It is quite possible 360s sold higher because people bought multiple consoles and we both know PS3 had problems with failures but possibly in lower numbers. Squaretrade statistics claim the PS3 had a lower failure rate but overall who knows.

You really don't know how many DS's were bought due to constant revisions of the system and its following successor, the DSi (yes, I maintain that opinion. Always have, always will - bite me). Common Sense and my Glorious Powers of Observation claim that numerous people bought several DS/DSi systems, ramping up the sales to a ridiculous number.

See? Anyone can make an infertile comment. Lots of 360'ties died - fair play. Lots were sent to Microsoft and lots were fixed. Same goes to the PS3, really. Just so you know, Wii's failed in the past as well - I've seen several threads where people had problems with a malfunctioning GPU and artifacting. Not to the degree of the YLOD or the RROD, but still. Electronics die sometimes, it's life.

 

[Valwin]

Sony originally assumed that they will advertise the system as a "handheld for the grown-up gamers", but that obviously didn't work.

it dint work because grown-up gamers want a device that haves games something vita lacks

sony should have cut the hardware specs and focus on so software

 

[Foxi4]

soulx and Valwin in one thread about the Vita - yup, it's time to bail.

 

[Deleted_171835]

The PS3 is currently the fastest-selling video game system, and it's only 3 mil units behind the 360 in total sales - a difference it can still make up - they're going head-to-head, really, so I'd say it turned out pretty well for a system which started at a snail's face. The Wii sold more units simply because it was affordable, not because it was any good. It's the go-to system for all the parents and grandparents buying gifts for children, it's kid friendly so it ramps up the sales. True fact.

Portable CoD games didn't sell well because they were *crap*, not because there was no interest in them. Not to mention that they were on the DS, so they suffered from the "amma gonna downloldeet" syndrome most DS titles had.

I had a feeling you wouldn't like the my game choices for the comparison, but don't worry, you can carry on thinking the way you do.

Vita's sales will get a significant boost when so-called "desirable" titles are released, and seeing that quite a few are on the way, I have no worries.

The PS3 is not the fastest-selling video game system. Please don't make up stats.

Look at the July 2012 NPD sales analysis, the PS3 sold ~150k units while the 360 sold 203k. June 2012 NPD, the PS3 sold 195k while the 360 sold 257k. Worldwide sales figure put the PS3 at 63.9 million and the 360 a 67.2 million. While the PS3 may be selling well in Japan, I've already explain that it's because there isn't any other viable home console platform right now in that region.

This isn't a thread for you to hate on the Wii. I'm not discussing why those consoles sold well but simply disproving that the "PS3 dominated the market".

If that is indeed why portable COD games sold like crap, then following that logic, the Vita game should sell like crap too. It looks like a PS2 game in terms of graphics, it only has 4v4 multiplayer and it's made by Nihilistic Software, a developer known for making crappy games.

Obviously Vita sales would increase if system-selling titles were released but that isn't happening. There aren't any big system-selling games announced and if it continues to sell like this, there won't be any.

@[member='TwinRetro']

http://gbatemp.net/t...ost__p__4229253

But this isn't a thread to discuss the 3DS. Feel free to make one, though.

 

[Lurker2]

I was just trying to point out it is possible the number is skewed due to that. I was not trying to argue about failure of devices. I know they fail time to time but one many fail more often then the other causing the sales number to be higher.

 

[Foxi4]

Just gonna drop this here and leave you guys to it, you seem to be making a good use of this thead, have fun!

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Say what you will about the Vita, but can "too many features" really be used as a downside?

I'd think so. Take my dad for example. He doesn't have a smart phone or anything, he has an old phone that he just uses for texting and calling. a 25 minute pre-paid card will last him for a year and a half. I asked him why he doesn't get a smart phone considering he can read his ebooks, listen to his radio, watch videos and such, and he just simply said:

"There's too much stuff on there that makes the phone too confusing to navigate and it's all useless to me. If I have an eReader, I don't need to read books on my phone. I have a portable radio tuner, so I don't need the tuner. I watch videos and browse the internet when I get to work. There's no need for me to be constantly checking the internet every 2 minutes".

But I guess ultimately, it depends on the person. But still, there are people out there who think like that.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Just gonna drop this here and leave you guys to it, you seem to be making a good use of this thead, have fun!

>VGChartz

Just stop. Sales data there is not reliable. They make up stats (or as they put it, "educated guesses").

And come the fuck on. When you realize the flaws in your argument, you go "OH NO SOULX AND VALWIN, THE FANBOYS" and leave. It's not witty nor is it amusing.

 

[Gahars]

Say what you will about the Vita, but can "too many features" really be used as a downside?

I'd think so. Take my dad for example. He doesn't have a smart phone or anything, he has an old phone that he just uses for texting and calling. a 25 minute pre-paid card will last him for a year and a half. I asked him why he doesn't get a smart phone considering he can read his ebooks, listen to his radio, watch videos and such, and he just simply said:

"There's too much stuff on there that makes the phone too confusing to navigate and it's all useless to me. If I have an eReader, I don't need to read books on my phone. I have a portable radio tuner, so I don't need the tuner. I watch videos and browse the internet when I get to work. There's no need for me to be constantly checking the internet every 2 minutes".

So efficiency and convenience are bad because some people might find it too confusing?

 

[Foxi4]

I'd think so. Take my dad for example. (...) "There's too much stuff on there that makes the phone too confusing to navigate and it's all useless to me. If I have an eReader, I don't need to read books on my phone. I have a portable radio tuner, so I don't need the tuner. I watch videos and browse the internet when I get to work. There's no need for me to be constantly checking the internet every 2 minutes".

Your dad is not the average target for electronics of this kind though - smartphones are made with young people in mind, that's why they allow for such a wide variety of interactions. Video game consoles follow the same route - they're made for a specific target, gamers. Gamers are also mostly young, so to me, it makes sense to include certain "smart" functionality. I totally shouldn't be here - I feel like a naughty school kid playing with matches. *snickers*

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Say what you will about the Vita, but can "too many features" really be used as a downside?

I'd think so. Take my dad for example. He doesn't have a smart phone or anything, he has an old phone that he just uses for texting and calling. a 25 minute pre-paid card will last him for a year and a half. I asked him why he doesn't get a smart phone considering he can read his ebooks, listen to his radio, watch videos and such, and he just simply said:

"There's too much stuff on there that makes the phone too confusing to navigate and it's all useless to me. If I have an eReader, I don't need to read books on my phone. I have a portable radio tuner, so I don't need the tuner. I watch videos and browse the internet when I get to work. There's no need for me to be constantly checking the internet every 2 minutes".

So efficiency and convenience are bad because some people might find it too confusing?

No. I'm just saying with all that stuff, there are people who might look at it as too confusing and would deter away from it for something more simpler.

 

[Gahars]

Say what you will about the Vita, but can "too many features" really be used as a downside?

I'd think so. Take my dad for example. He doesn't have a smart phone or anything, he has an old phone that he just uses for texting and calling. a 25 minute pre-paid card will last him for a year and a half. I asked him why he doesn't get a smart phone considering he can read his ebooks, listen to his radio, watch videos and such, and he just simply said:

"There's too much stuff on there that makes the phone too confusing to navigate and it's all useless to me. If I have an eReader, I don't need to read books on my phone. I have a portable radio tuner, so I don't need the tuner. I watch videos and browse the internet when I get to work. There's no need for me to be constantly checking the internet every 2 minutes".

So efficiency and convenience are bad because some people might find it too confusing?

No. I'm just saying with all that stuff, there are people who might look at it as too confusing and would deter away from it for something more simpler.

As Foxi noted, I don't think there's much of an overlap between the "gamer" and "confused by greater functionality" demographics.

Plus, even if a person found the offered features to be too much, no one from Sony is going to put you in a choke hold and force you to use them. If you'd rather use the Vita strictly as a gaming device, you easily can; if you want to get more out of it, the option is always there.

 

[Bobbyloujo]

I honestly wish there were more games for the Vita. It's essentially a handheld PS3. With real analog sticks and the graphics capabilities that the device offers I bet it'd be a really enjoyable system to play if there were only some good games for it... As for the type of game, I think all types of games would work. The Vita, being so much like a home console, should have no problem playing any kind of game.