Digital Distribution: Imagined Fears

[Deleted_171835]

PC gaming may not be as cheap in the short-term but it certainly pays off in the long-term considering you're getting AAA games on the PC for prices such as $10. There's also the added benefit of better visuals and performance, modding, the ability to use whatever controller you desire (with superior FPS controls), infinite customization, more indie games/MMOs and more.

For that price I built my gaming PC. (Well, for $370 but close enough). This includes a case, Motherboard, CPU, RAM, GPU, 1TB HDD and PSU. Sure it's not the biggest baddest beast in the yard but its run everything I've thrown at it at medium-high to high settings. The trick is looking for deals.

specs. give me them.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

For that price I built my gaming PC. (Well, for $370 but close enough). This includes a case, Motherboard, CPU, RAM, GPU, 1TB HDD and PSU. Sure it's not the biggest baddest beast in the yard but its run everything I've thrown at it at medium-high to high settings. The trick is looking for deals.

specs. give me them.

Intel i3 2100 @3.1GHz
4GB of RAM (gonna buy more soon)
GeForce 440 GT with 1GB DDR5 (It was on sale at the time so I picked it up)
700W PSU

It was a budget gaming PC, but it still runs pretty much everything.

 

[Rydian]

"Used" is what throws pretty much every single comparison out the window, dude.

And that was exactly my point.

I meant new comparisons would be made, such as buying a used gaming system.

And no, I don't mean people trying to sell machines on craigslist with an 8800GTX for $100 less than they bought it for 4 years ago...

 

[retKHAAAN]

"Used" is what throws pretty much every single comparison out the window, dude.

And that was exactly my point.

I meant new comparisons would be made, such as buying a used gaming system.

And no, I don't mean people trying to sell machines on craigslist with an 8800GTX for $100 less than they bought it for 4 years ago...

buying a used game system was exactly the comparison I used in my post. My wife spent $200 on a used computer, I spent $100 on a used xbox. For $300 we have our computing and gaming needs met and we have the ability to do both at the same time. Both items were refurbished by the manufacturer. I do not trust craigslist/ebay for anything more than game discs.

on topic, digital distribution isn't going anywhere. In fact, it'll likely be far more prevalent with each passing console generation. PC platforms are already to the point that you can get whatever you want whenever you want it. It's ingrained in the gaming culture.

 

[Arm73]

I love digital distribution as well, ever since we started playing Mp3s instead of CDs.
Before the advent of MP3 players, I had my room full of CDs, with all the bad implications ( lack of storage space, dust collecting broken jewel cases etc..), so when I got my first MP3 player, I started slowly converting my CD collection into MP3 files, and get rid of the original discs.
Then later, I started getting my new music directly in MP3 format, thus skipping the buying/converting/storage process altogether !

Yes, games today are much bigger and still require quite a long time to download for some, but I see myself going in the same direction I went with my music collection.

Further more, since instant streaming Netflix, I got rid of my DVDs as well, who knows, with services like Onlive ( let's hope it'll be alright ) I can see myself skipping the downloading and installing process altogether.

Plus with cloud based services, I wouldn't have to worry about hard drive crashes and such.

 

[Rydian]

Well back when digital music came out it was taking me 15 minutes to download an MP3 anyways...

 

[retKHAAAN]

and in the world of acquisitions, companies that fold tend to get absorbed by others with few hiccups in the distribution of services...

 

[Issac]

"If Steam goes down, all my games will be gone forever!"

Gaben is a Microsoft billionaire.

Not to mention Steam's offline mode severs future dependencies on the servers.

Except for if you need to download a game or verify the integrity of it's cache to fix a corrupted file.

Except for if you need to download a game or verify the integrity of it's cache to fix a corrupted file.

If I lose my cart of Chrono Trigger I don't get to download a new one, and if some of the ROM get corrupted I don't have access to a service to fix it for free...

I think it's more you to blame if you lose a cartridge, than if you hard drive crashes and you need to re-download a game you purchased.

And talking about computer prices... My computer, without an OS, was $2550... I can however run every game I've tried in max settings.

 

[Another World]

I just wish people stopped complaining about digital distribution. It has plenty of upsides and plenty of downsides. Physical distribution isn't superior and neither is digital. In the end we should just be able to enjoy games.

i want to enjoy my purchases for as long as the hardware works. i still enjoy my atari 2600, its life is not yet over, it runs great and still has homebrew carts produced for it. what happens if the ps4 goes completely digital, it is never hacked, and the games are never preserved? i will not be able to enjoy those purchases for much longer than the companies deems is the life of the system. that is more than enough reason to complain about digital distribution.

there is also the preservation factor. i do not know your feeling about that subject, but i personally feel that all software should be preserved for future generations. no one should have to say "it was a great game, to bad there is no way to play it any longer".

-another world

 

[Rydian]

Except for if you need to download a game

I didn't bother responding to the "well you need internet access to download things" line because... fucking duh. Just like you need access to a game store to to get a new copy of a disc you may have broken.

I think it's more you to blame if you lose a cartridge, than if you hard drive crashes and you need to re-download a game you purchased.

Many people wipe computers (or restore from backup) when there's no need to, even outside the realm of infections and such. Seriously, I've seen people use the vendor-supplied wipe-and-restore function when their IE start page was changed.

i want to enjoy my purchases for as long as the hardware works. i still enjoy my atari 2600, its life is not yet over, it runs great and still has homebrew carts produced for it. what happens if the ps4 goes completely digital, it is never hacked, and the games are never preserved? i will not be able to enjoy those purchases for much longer than the companies deems is the life of the system. that is more than enough reason to complain about digital distribution.

I'm not seeing the problem? Your Atari works well past the life of the system and the games are still playable, is that not true of other systems?

My Sega Genesis only died when the power supply blew, and that's an issue that can happen to any sort of device regardless of if the game copies are physical or digital...

My Gameshark for the PS2 was rendered unusable before I even got to use it, when I tripped and fell on the disc, cracking it. It broke well within the life of the system, and was rendered unusable.

there is also the preservation factor. i do not know your feeling about that subject, but i personally feel that all software should be preserved for future generations. no one should have to say "it was a great game, to bad there is no way to play it any longer".

-another world

This is why hacking and emulation are important. If the next-gen systems are totally unhacked/unexplored, then there will be no way to play the game after the system's death, even if they're non-digital.

Get where I'm going? There's not nearly as much of a difference between physical and digital as people believe.

 

[Another World]

i completely disagree. there is a rather large differences between the two.

my atari carts are carts, not roms on a flash kit. they are 30 yrs old and working just fine. non-digital media means that we can buy new (used) experiences 30 yrs later. this will most probably not be the case with digital gaming media. if the ps4 goes completely digital then our chances of enjoying those games 10, 20, or 30 yrs later becomes almost impossible. but who is to say that sony will not run an archive museum and continue to host games for the next 200 years.

there is also the difference of being able to do what we want with our copies. i can take my copy of an atari game and use it on any atari system i want. i can't do the same with my dsi-ware. digital media means they can restrict our ability to use the software we paid for on the systems it works with. i suppose the argument is that we only own the rights to the 1 copy we downloaded, if that is the case then why do companies like nintendo restrict our ability to transfer that copy?

-another world

 

[Issac]

I didn't bother responding to the "well you need internet access to download things" line because... fucking duh. Just like you need access to a game store to to get a new copy of a disc you may have broken.

Then I fail to see the relevance of that comment all in all. If steam goes down, we can't play our games. But that's where the offline-mode comes into play! We can still use it! BUT NOT if you need to redownload a game. And to that, you reply that if you lose your cartridge you don't get a new one? Or did I miss something?

I think it's more you to blame if you lose a cartridge, than if you hard drive crashes and you need to re-download a game you purchased.

Many people wipe computers (or restore from backup) when there's no need to, even outside the realm of infections and such. Seriously, I've seen people use the vendor-supplied wipe-and-restore function when their IE start page was changed.

Yes, those people might be stupid. But my guess is that someone who wipe-and-restores their computer when the IE start page is changed, doesn't own 200 games on steam. and once again, if you think it's the same loosing a physical cartridge (with box?) as a system crash losing 200 digital games on steam (And in this scenario still, steam being offline), that it's the same? I still think someone losing a physical item is more to "blame" than someone suffering from faulty hardware (hard drive crash, has happened to me several times)

 

[Rydian]

Then I fail to see the relevance of that comment all in all. If steam goes down, we can't play our games. But that's where the offline-mode comes into play! We can still use it! BUT NOT if you need to redownload a game. And to that, you reply that if you lose your cartridge you don't get a new one? Or did I miss something?

Yes, that's my point. People often cry out that if your harddrive/stick dies you lose the game, but if your cartridge breaks you also lose the game, so it's not like digital has some huge weakness that physical doesn't there.

Yes, those people might be stupid. But my guess is that someone who wipe-and-restores their computer when the IE start page is changed, doesn't own 200 games on steam.

Why does it have to be 200? It can just be a single game for them to have the advantage of redownloading it.

and once again, if you think it's the same loosing a physical cartridge (with box?) as a system crash losing 200 digital games on steam (And in this scenario still, steam being offline), that it's the same?

A "system crash" is recoverable unless it's hardware failure.

I still think someone losing a physical item is more to "blame" than someone suffering from faulty hardware (hard drive crash, has happened to me several times)

RROD and YLOD say hi.

Same shit. Your hardware dies you need to take extra steps to re-get your games, if it's possible at all.

my atari carts are carts, not roms on a flash kit. they are 30 yrs old and working just fine. non-digital media means that we can buy new (used) experiences 30 yrs later. this will most probably not be the case with digital gaming media. if the ps4 goes completely digital then our chances of enjoying those games 10, 20, or 30 yrs later becomes almost impossible. but who is to say that sony will not run an archive museum and continue to host games for the next 200 years.

This is about preservation (not current play), and yes digital has downsides to preservation (since the data of a game on the whole can't be segregated from the system easily, if at all in current digital methods).

there is also the difference of being able to do what we want with our copies. i can take my copy of an atari game and use it on any atari system i want. i can't do the same with my dsi-ware. digital media means they can restrict our ability to use the software we paid for on the systems it works with. i suppose the argument is that we only own the rights to the 1 copy we downloaded, if that is the case then why do companies like nintendo restrict our ability to transfer that copy?

-another world

'Cause a "transfer" is a copy with a deletion of the original. Remove the step that results in the deletion of the original, and you have a free copy of the game.

 

[Deleted_171835]

This is why hacking and emulation are important. If the next-gen systems are totally unhacked/unexplored, then there will be no way to play the game after the system's death, even if they're non-digital.

Get where I'm going? There's not nearly as much of a difference between physical and digital as people believe.

Not true, you can always purchase a used copy of the game.

 

[Rydian]

Talking about the physical system's death (or death of the original media) there.

 

[JulietStMoon]

• "When my harddrive/memory stick dies, the game is gone with it!"
  
  Yes, and when your GBC cart of Pokemon Crystal dies, the game is gone with it.

I agree with all your points except for this one. A typical game cart "dying" (I'm assuming you mean the save battery dies) can easily be fixed with a simple battery replacement. And more modern physical mediums (discs, Vita/DS/3DS carts) are much much MUCH more durable than GBC and N64 carts (for example) used to be. Also, if my physical copy of Skyrim for 360 breaks in ten years, it's just a matter of finding a used copy on ebay for $10 or so. With digital copies, it's sometimes literally close to the exact same full price tag at which you bought it a decade ago, or else it's just not available anymore. There's no serious market for used digital games, and of course there's the issue of archiving (which SoulX already covered).

 

[Another World]

Yes, that's my point. People often cry out that if your harddrive/stick dies you lose the game, but if your cartridge breaks you also lose the game, so it's not like digital has some huge weakness that physical doesn't there.

if i was careless enough to damage my cart that would be my fault, something i perhaps did through stupidity or by mistake. however, speaking for myself, these things do not happen. i care for my purchases, which is why my 30 yr old atari works like its brand new. but with digital media i have no control over the removal of the content. if they decide to stop offering my purchases for download then they have effectively broken my cart for me.

-another world

 

[Rydian]

if they decide to stop offering my purchases for download then they have effectively broken my cart for me.

-another world

How does that work? Honest question. The game still exists locally, in your house, and is still playable unless the company's a big dick about requiring server connections (which, as I showed, is an issue with retail copies too).

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I'd just like to say that the odds of a game disappearing forever because a service stopped offering it is very, very small. Games will live on through either piracy being available or the eventual re-releases. NES games still live on because of the Wii Store and such and I doubt Nintendo will be swiping down that service anytime soon. In fact if it wasn't for digital distribution, I really doubt people would be as informed or knowledgeable about old era video games as they are today. I see so many people younger than me say "I LOVE LINK TO THE PAST" but odds are they'd never be slamming out the money for an original cart and SNES for the game if that was the case. They probably experienced it through an emulator or digital service. And hence these games live on and are appreciated because of digital distribution.

 

[Another World]

if they decide to stop offering my purchases for download then they have effectively broken my cart for me.

-another world

How does that work? Honest question. The game still exists locally, in your house, and is still playable unless the company's a big dick about requiring server connections (which, as I showed, is an issue with retail copies too).

i'm attempting to make the point that i can buy a used atari right now and my games will work. i can also buy more games cartridges. but if a system goes completely digital i may not have that same opportunity 30 yrs later.

i don't share the same enthusiasm for digital content and its future as some in this discussion. i don't care for their control over the content. i'm also worried about the future of security. it will remain to be seen if the full dsi and 3ds are hacked. it is possible that we may lose dsi-ware and e-shop games at some point, when nintendo decides to move onto something new 10 years from now. if those things are never decrypted and backed-up we may only be playing them sporadically on used devices and again later in our memories. but, if they existed on physical carts, even with an acceptable amount of loss, they would still exist for purchase.

-another world