Throughout the Nintendo Switch's life, we've seen modchips and softmods aplenty. What has been missing in the Switch hacking scene, though, is a flashcart; and if rumors are to be believed, one might be coming soon. A user by the name of After Time X shared on Twitter that they have exclusive information regarding testing of a flashcart that will work on all models and revisions of the Nintendo Switch. A video of "proof" was shown, of someone cycling through rom backups, and loading the games to play on their Switch OLED unit. According to the rumor, these flashcarts will begin shipping as early as next month.

Source
Discussion thread

 

[tabzer]

You're arguing a theoretical effect on the market ...

I don't think you are seeing the bigger picture. This whole discussion is theoretical and contingent on MIG having wings. My angle is also more about image than it is about measuring non-sales.

How many GameStop employees will know about this and rip certs from used games as they cycle through the store? It's a bit different than SXOS, where everyone has the same certs. Banning one cert to stop 1,000s of people vs banning every cert that has a dual instance via mig. The difference is astronomical. If Nintendo does apply this policy on a large scale it'll make every used copy of smash bros, Splatoon, pokemon, monster hunter, etc. unreliable.

Mitigation via other means would be better imo, with less collateral damage.

 

[SilverLobster]

Not the Gamecard itself. The Gamecard slot. It is called "lotus3".

Oh okay, still, dang! I've never heard of a gamecard slot having firmware before, sounds like the Switch is pretty intelligent wow, I'm guessing this is something the 3DS didn't have which made it a lot easier to make a flashcart for?

 

[Draxzelex]

I don't think you are seeing the bigger picture. This whole discussion is theoretical and contingent on MIG having wings. My angle is also more about image than it is about measuring non-sales.

How many GameStop employees will know about this and rip certs from used games as they cycle through the store? It's a bit different than SXOS, where everyone has the same certs. Banning one cert to stop 1,000s of people vs banning every cert that has a dual instance via mig. The difference is astronomical. If Nintendo does apply this policy on a large scale it'll make every used copy of smash bros, Splatoon, pokemon, monster hunter, etc. unreliable.

Mitigation via other means would be better imo, with less collateral damage.

I don't think you understand what was possible with SX OS versus the Mig Switch. Everyone did not necessarily have just one certificate with SX OS. They could easily do the same thing you're envisioning with used games back then. There was nothing stopping users from dumping multiple cartridge certificates from the second-hand market and injecting it into their own .XCI file backups. And you are severely underestimating Nintendo, the company widely known just for releasing system updates as "stability improvements" only to hamper hackers or stalk scene developers in private; they will stop at nothing to hinder hacking in any form. The only scenario where this can potentially be a problem is if Mig Switch somehow becomes more popular than SX OS but I find that highly unlikely given that the scene is nowhere as active as it used to be during its golden age and the flashcard is way more inconvenient to use than SX OS, notably due to switching games. SX OS had a menu that made game switching easier and more elegant while Mig Switch has the user press the cartridge itself meaning the average user will have less games loaded on the Mig Switch than SX OS on average which also means there is far less likelihood of the scenario you imagined.

And once again, your opinion is irrelevant if Nintendo has already mitigated this issue a different way. If that's how Nintendo chooses to do damage control, then that is how Nintendo chooses to do damage control.

 

[tabzer]

I don't think ...

Understanding what was possible with SXOS is irrelevant to what actually happened with SXOS. Nintendo didn't sit back and just ban cert/uids. They took a proactive approach that disabled SXOS from progressing. Banning certs wasn't their top priority. Now, people don't go online with SXOS unless they are trying to get banned. It's true that there was incentive to grab certs/uids, but the system bans were more prevalent and avoiding those were a greater focus to pirates at large. It's even likely that they banned systems before banning certs, but used cert ID'ing as a method to do so.

MIG offers non-CFW options for piracy play online. If this cannot be knocked down with cart detection techniques of Lotus3, then it is reasonable to assume that certs/uid management is going to be the main focus on both sides. It is a clear escalation. I have no reason to believe that SXOS did this the same way that MIG promises to do so. With SXOS, most users relied on one person to dump a cart, and to use that cart (along with its certs/uids). With MIG, everyone is incentivized to find their own certs/uids anyway possible. To suggest that these are the same thing is disengenious.

Here's the thing. We are both trying to predict the future based on the past. The difference between your approach and mine is that I am accounting for the fact that MIG will incentivize cert/uid ripping in a way that SXOS never did, and the potential reaction poses additional risk to Nintendo's image. You don't have to believe me, and I don't have to believe you. It's possible that Nintendo will do what you say they will. I am arguing that if they want to protect their brand, they will be more diplomatic than to sacrifice 1,2, or more potential innocents for every 1 "terrorist". If they cannot stop MIG at a hardware level, then escalating a cert war will only continue until people don't feel safe buying used Switch games.

 

[subcon959]

Understanding what was possible with SXOS is irrelevant to what actually happened with SXOS. Nintendo didn't sit back and just ban cert/uids. They took a proactive approach that disabled SXOS from progressing. Banning certs wasn't their top priority. Now, people don't go online with SXOS unless they are trying to get banned. It's true that there was incentive to grab certs/uids, but the system bans were more prevalent and avoiding those were a greater focus to pirates at large. It's even likely that they banned systems before banning certs, but used cert ID'ing as a method to do so.

MIG offers non-CFW options for piracy play online. If this cannot be knocked down with cart detection techniques of Lotus3, then it is reasonable to assume that certs/uid management is going to be the main focus on both sides. It is a clear escalation. I have no reason to believe that SXOS did this the same way that MIG promises to do so. With SXOS, most users relied on one person to dump a cart, and to use that cart (along with its certs/uids). With MIG, everyone is incentivized to find their own certs/uids anyway possible. To suggest that these are the same thing is disengenious.

Here's the thing. We are both trying to predict the future based on the past. The difference between your approach and mine is that I am accounting for the fact that MIG will incentivize cert/uid ripping in a way that SXOS never did, and the potential reaction poses additional risk to Nintendo's image. You don't have to believe me, and I don't have to believe you. It's possible that Nintendo will do what you say they will. I am arguing that if they want to protect their brand, they will be more diplomatic than to sacrifice 1,2, or more potential innocents for every 1 "terrorist". If they cannot stop MIG at a hardware level, then escalating a cert war will only continue until people don't feel safe buying used Switch games.

All of these companies have wet dreams about killing the used market. It's possible they will see it as a bonus rather than a negative.

 

[fst312]

If sales are low on this, I’ll expect a good price drop or is that what the clone carts are for.

 

[Draxzelex]

Understanding what was possible with SXOS is irrelevant to what actually happened with SXOS. Nintendo didn't sit back and just ban cert/uids. They took a proactive approach that disabled SXOS from progressing. Banning certs wasn't their top priority. Now, people don't go online with SXOS unless they are trying to get banned. It's true that there was incentive to grab certs/uids, but the system bans were more prevalent and avoiding those were a greater focus to pirates at large. It's even likely that they banned systems before banning certs, but used cert ID'ing as a method to do so.

MIG offers non-CFW options for piracy play online. If this cannot be knocked down with cart detection techniques of Lotus3, then it is reasonable to assume that certs/uid management is going to be the main focus on both sides. It is a clear escalation. I have no reason to believe that SXOS did this the same way that MIG promises to do so. With SXOS, most users relied on one person to dump a cart, and to use that cart (along with its certs/uids). With MIG, everyone is incentivized to find their own certs/uids anyway possible. To suggest that these are the same thing is disengenious.

Here's the thing. We are both trying to predict the future based on the past. The difference between your approach and mine is that I am accounting for the fact that MIG will incentivize cert/uid ripping in a way that SXOS never did, and the potential reaction poses additional risk to Nintendo's image. You don't have to believe me, and I don't have to believe you. It's possible that Nintendo will do what you say they will. I am arguing that if they want to protect their brand, they will be more diplomatic than to sacrifice 1,2, or more potential innocents for every 1 "terrorist". If they cannot stop MIG at a hardware level, then escalating a cert war will only continue until people don't feel safe buying used Switch games.

Unless you have actual statistics about cert bans and console bans, you have no proof. And I am the person who runs the banning thread so I'm the bigger authority when it comes to Switch bans. I have plenty of people who never got console banned but were banned for a specific game. Some of these people never even touched SX OS so Nintendo is more likely to ban a specific game than you might think.

You also have another misconception here about Mig Switch. People aren't being "incentivized" to dump their own cartridges although the dumper does help give off that illusion. Its meant to trick Nintendo into thinking its a more legal tool than it actually is which it is not. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from sharing their dumps online just like with SX OS. All of the dumps just have to be redumped which is the only difference. You are right in that they don't load .XCI files the same way; Mig Switch is worse with loading .XCI files than SX OS. Because it emulates the cartridge slot instead of a CFW bypassing signature checks, it cannot load custom .XCI files or converts. That is why looking at SX OS is important because nothing that the Mig Switch is touted to accomplish is any different than SX OS; its merely on a smaller scale. The team even behind it are clearly the remnants of TX so they are no strangers to piracy and are more than happy to endorse it.

Again, so what? You're entitled to your own opinion even if you are wrong. I haven't once stated my opinion on this matter whatsoever because opinions are irrelevant. What matters is what Nintendo has done in similar matters and given their consistency with these matters, there is very little reason it will change. They did it on the 3DS, they've already done it on the Switch, and many others such as one of the moderators of this site know they will continue banning cartridge certificates.

They will just ban the cert like they done with a whole lot of other. I wonder if they will have an AI that if the same Switch keeps coming up over and over again when duplicate Certs comes up and then you get banned?

(that's what I would have done if I ran Nintendo)

SciresM, the leading authority on Switch hacking, has indicated Nintendo has and will ban cartridge certificates.
https://x.com/SciresM/status/1009436235536871424?s=20
There is also no reason to discuss the secondhand market when it objectively brings no revenue to Nintendo. This is why resellers such as Gamestop push used game sales because they do not have to contribute a cent to Nintendo. And as the person above me has stated, these companies would much prefer an economy without a secondhand market.

 

[SylverReZ]

Not the Gamecard itself. The Gamecard slot. It is called "lotus3".

You mean the game card ASIC controller?
Not to be confused with a game called Lotus 3: The Ultimate Challenge.

 

[tabzer]

All of these companies have wet dreams about killing the used market. It's possible they will see it as a bonus rather than a negative.

I agree. I think people who make the argument @Draxzelex is making isn't only giving them permission, but promoting it.

Unless you have actual statistics about cert bans and console bans, you have no proof. And I am the person who runs the banning thread so I'm the bigger authority when it comes to Switch bans. I have plenty of people who never got console banned but were banned for a specific game. Some of these people never even touched SX OS so Nintendo is more likely to ban a specific game than you might think.

What do you want proof about? Are you suggesting that cartridge bans were/are more common than console bans? You are the authority of a thread, try reading it. I haven't said anything that disputed facts. BTW, do be careful to not confuse people getting themselves banned for doing something offensive online with a cartridge ban.

You also have another misconception here about Mig Switch. People aren't being "incentivized" to dump their own cartridges although the dumper does help give off that illusion~

I disagree. That's your opinion.

Again, so what? You're entitled to your own opinion even if you are wrong. I haven't once stated my opinion on this matter whatsoever because opinions are irrelevant.

Everything you've been posting has been your opinion. You use facts and data and interpret it in a way that makes sense to you. Sorry, Mr. Authority. You are entitled to your opinion, even if you are wrong. We are predicting the future here, so let's see what happens.

 

[TheStonedModder]

So about $70

I low key sense a red flag that both the dumper and cart are bundled for that lower price. That doesn’t sound right to me. I figured the dumper would be $50 alone like the GBxCarts

https://www.moddedhardware.com/shop/p/migswitchflashcart

 

[Blythe93]

I'll give it a try after some trustworthy source reviews it. $70 is a bit too expensive for me, even more so because I already have 2 unpatched Switches. I've already spent more than enough on my Switch collection.

 

[impeeza]

I'll give it a try after some trustworthy source reviews it. $70 is a bit too expensive for me, even more so because I already have 2 unpatched Switches. I've already spent more than enough on my Switch collection.

70 + shipping + taxes. it's a little bit expensive

 

[Blythe93]

70 + shipping + taxes. it's a little bit expensive

Yep, I've forgotten about shipping and taxes. Definitely pricey.

 

[impeeza]

Yep, I've forgotten about shipping and taxes. Definitely pricey.

This page do not ship to my country so I will have to pay:

70 Device
12.95 Shipping to my Box on USA.
16 Forward Shipping to my Country
30 Customs and Taxes at my Country entry
Total 128.95 ;(

So, I have to wait for an Aliexpress clone or the device itself because aliexpress packages do not pay custom taxes at my country and shipping normally is low.

 

[TheStonedModder]

I'll give it a try after some trustworthy source reviews it. $70 is a bit too expensive for me, even more so because I already have 2 unpatched Switches. I've already spent more than enough on my Switch collection.

I feel like $70 is about Average for this type of device nowadays. Hell look at all the recent GameCube mods a lot of those are around this price range if not more

Y’all are about to pay 1 game price for essentially “unlimited” games (heck even if it’s just 10 games the price point is still better than purchasing them on your own seperatly ) (also not that I think this should ever have a game limit I’m thinking about SD card limits and not wanting in remove the cart a thousand times)

What more could you want lol

 

[impeeza]

I feel like $70 is about Average for this type of device nowadays. Hell look at all the recent GameCube mods a lot of those are around this price range if not more

Y’all are about to pay 1 game price for essentially “unlimited” games (heck even if it’s just 10 the price point is still better than purchasing them on your own)

What more could you want lol

No unlimited games, only the same games you already have, you must take than in account.

 

[TheStonedModder]

No unlimited games, only the same games you already have, you must take than in account.

That’s why I put it in quotes.

Even if I only use this device to consolidate my physical collection the point still stands. The price of one game to combine multiple into one is a hell of a deal

Also we both know people are going to be getting roms and using their own certs. I’m certainly going to be dumping all 40 of my game certs and using them around as much as I can ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[impeeza]

That’s why I put it in quotes.

Even if I only use this device to consolidate my physical collection the point still stands. The price of one game to combine multiple into one is a hell of a deal

Also we both know people are going to be getting roms and using their own certs. I’m certainly going to be dumping all 40 of my game certs and using them around as much as I can ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

you have a very valid point.

 

[Draxzelex]

I agree. I think people who make the argument @Draxzelex is making isn't only giving them permission, but promoting it.

You realize he agrees with what I'm saying and not what you're defending?

What do you want proof about? Are you suggesting that cartridge bans were/are more common than console bans? You are the authority of a thread, try reading it. I haven't said anything that disputed facts. BTW, do be careful to not confuse people getting themselves banned for doing something offensive online with a cartridge ban.

I have read it but I'm not sure about you. I never suggested cartridge bans were/are more common than console bans. I suggested that they are more common than you think and Nintendo distributes them for reasons other than piracy.

I disagree. That's your opinion.

Believe whatever you want. Since all people are doing is running files off of an SD card, there is absolutely nothing stopping people from sharing those files online just like traditional .XCI and .NSP files. This is why flashcards are never sold via traditional resellers; no matter what intentions the team behind a flashcard has, it always has potential to be abused for piracy.

Everything you've been posting has been your opinion. You use facts and data and interpret it in a way that makes sense to you. Sorry, Mr. Authority. You are entitled to your opinion, even if you are wrong. We are predicting the future here, so let's see what happens.

Its my opinion that Nintendo has banned gamecard certificates in the past? Its my opinion that the relevant error code is 2124-4025? Its my opinion that the secondhand market does not lead to any money in Nintendo's hands? If you sincerely believe these are opinions, then you need a wake-up call. If there any other interpretations for these objective facts and data that I have stated multiple times, I am all ears but you have ignored all of my requests for any rebuttals. Opinions don't change minds or the future; objective and repeatable data does. If that data does not agree with your opinion, that is your personal problem.

I know I'm entitled to my opinions of which I have none but unfortunately for you, I am right. In fact, I am 1000% confident will ban gamecard certificates because this is literally a repeat of SX OS but a worse version of it. There isn't any need to predict the future when its simply a repeat of the past. That's the point of learning about history so you can learn from your mistakes. But neither you nor Gary seem to take heed of that advice.

 

[tabzer]

what you're defending

What am I defending boss? You seem to have an idea but the points I make seem to miss you. Nintendo didn't rise up from a pile of facts. They were built with ideas and opinions and established the facts. Nintendo can create facts, like the ones that you use in your boring opinion.

You are trying so hard to be better than someone and missing the information I am presenting. Public opinion about Nintendo is a core ingredient of its success. People don't need to buy from Nintendo especially if they devalue their own products. You are promoting the belief that banning away the second-hand market is acceptable, expected, and the only logical response. I posed an alternative which you seemed to have no interest in. You are opposed to innovation on principle?

I'd call you out on all of your contradictions and shifting, but why bother? You can't seem to understand why you are even talking.