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Donald Trump indicted on federal charges related to handling of classified documents

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Taleweaver

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I'm not claiming to know what the documents said. Are you?
Yes. The document on which Trump was caught saying it was still classified is about attack plans on Iran. Can't say I know what the others are (them being secret and such). But since the Durham rapport was fully released not so long ago, I doubt there'll be much secret documents left on that topic.


Usually self-preservation is the reason anybody does anything. Why politicians do things usually involve an intricate maze of smoke-and-mirrors. They are above the need to "survive", lol. Whether Trump is feigning or following a script is anyone's guess.
I dare say that Trump is an exception to that. Both in this case and in that case against Carroll, Trump deemed (and deems) it necessary to deceive, lie, obstruct and even downright state he has the right to do whatever he wants.

The Durham report did more than just investigate "bias". It revealed how something like watergate would be tame compared to what's going on with the dirty politicians these days.
Could be. And? :)

The fact that you seem to "follow" politics, genuinely, on a hacking forum, raises some mental health concerns.
Thanks for your concern, but I'm doing fine.
Besides...have you tried following politics on, say, youtube comments or local newspapers? Compared to those, this is the pinnacle of civilization. :P

I love you.
I love you too! :D

*hugs*
 
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tabzer

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I dare say that Trump is an exception to that. Both in this case and in that case against Carroll, Trump deemed (and deems) it necessary to deceive, lie, obstruct and even downright state he has the right to do whatever he wants.
Before, the norm used to be to the claim of "matters of national security". Looks like Trump is making good on the the promises of transparency in government.
 

LumInvader

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FyJ9Wi5WAAELzV-
 

supermist

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There was also potential Russian collusion, potential Mueller Time, potential shampeachment #1, potential shampeachment #2, potential rape conviction in NY, potential campaign finance violations with Stormy Daniels, and potential sedition and treason charges from J6.

Really, how many times are you guys gonna keep falling for the same schtick?

I hope many more times as it's very amusing for the rest of us to witness.
The Mueller probe was a net gain for tax payers. The assets seized paid for the investigation 7 times over.
 
UPDATE 1

Xzi

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Turns out the rumblings from a few weeks back were true: Trump was hoarding nuclear secrets and military intelligence according to statements and documents released today. If he's found guilty of mishandling those or showing them to a foreign party, he will indeed lose the right to run for office again.
 

Foxi4

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Turns out the rumblings from a few weeks back were true: Trump was hoarding nuclear secrets and military intelligence according to statements and documents released today. If he's found guilty of mishandling those or showing them to a foreign party, he will indeed lose the right to run for office again.
This is incorrect. The Constitution only requires the President to be 35 or older, a natural-born citizen and have a history of living in the country for 14 years or more. For all intents and purposes he could be sworn in while incarcerated, though the likelihood of that happening is slim.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-trump-indictment-means-his-political-campaign-2023-06-09/

https://www.axios.com/2023/06/09/trump-president-run-criminal-charges-indictment

If you can provide a source for that legal opinion, I’d like to hear it. From what I’ve read, even if he is found guilty of violating the Espionage Act, he can still run.

In order to bar him from running for office, the House would have to impeach him and the Senate would have to convict him following said impeachment (on the basis of the 14th Amendment), but that’s unlikely - that investigation has come and gone.
 

titan_tim

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This is incorrect. The Constitution only requires the President to be 35 or older, a natural-born citizen and have a history of living in the country for 14 years or more. For all intents and purposes he could be sworn in while incarcerated, though the likelihood of that happening is slim.

If you can provide a source for that legal opinion, I’d like to hear it. From what I’ve read, even if he is found guilty of violating the Espionage Act, he can still run.

In order to bar him from running for office, the House would have to impeach him and the Senate would have to convict him following said impeachment (on the basis of the 14th Amendment), but that’s unlikely - that investigation has come and gone.
Not sure if this relates to him or not:

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm...rnment-property-protection-public-records-and

Subsection (b) of 18 U.S.C. § 2071 contains a similar prohibition specifically directed at custodians of public records. Any custodian of a public record who "willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys (any record) shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States." While the range of acts proscribed by this subsection is somewhat narrower than subsection (a), it does provide the additional penalty of forfeiture of position with the United States.
 
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Xzi

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He has 38 counts against him. Actually, it might be 37. Walt Nauta has been indicted too.
For a second I thought you were in the wrong thread, but you're right, THIRTY-SEVEN counts against him, not seven. All very serious. Donald Trump may well go down in the history books as this nation's biggest traitor. Also the fattest.
 

Foxi4

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Not sure if this relates to him or not:

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm...rnment-property-protection-public-records-and

Subsection (b) of 18 U.S.C. § 2071 contains a similar prohibition specifically directed at custodians of public records. Any custodian of a public record who "willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys (any record) shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States." While the range of acts proscribed by this subsection is somewhat narrower than subsection (a), it does provide the additional penalty of forfeiture of position with the United States.
The Constitution stands above any other law in the land. Congress lacks authority to overrule the criteria listed, so while Trump couldn’t run for Mayor, he absolutely could run for President regardless of the conviction on the basis of 2071. This would have to be challenged in court - the Constitution only grants Congress the right to bar someone from running on the basis of impeachment proceedings, not ordinary law.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/09/us/politics/trump-fbi-investigation.html

EDIT: Unpaywalled article available below:

https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/kZzPcS

Alternatively, here’s the relevant section:

How could any ballot disqualification be challenged?

Article II of the United States Constitution establishes three criteria for presidential eligibility: One must be a “natural born citizen,” at least 35 years old and a resident of the United States for at least 14 years.

Since the Constitution prevails when it and a federal statute conflict, the argument would be that Congress lacks the authority to alter that list of criteria — such as by adding a requirement that one has not been convicted of unlawfully taking government documents.

Notably, the Constitution does authorize Congress to render people ineligible to hold federal office as a penalty for convictions in impeachment proceedings. But nothing in the text of the Constitution says lawmakers may use ordinary criminal law to do so.

What have courts said?

In a 1969 case, the Supreme Court rejected an attempt by the House of Representatives, by majority vote, to block Adam Clayton Powell Jr. from taking his seat; voters in his district had re-elected him despite allegations of misconduct. The court ruled that, because he met the Constitution’s eligibility criteria to be a House member, “the House was without power to exclude him from its membership.”

Citing Alexander Hamilton, Chief Justice Earl Warren wrote in that majority opinion that “a fundamental principle of our representative democracy is that “the people should choose whom they please to govern them.”

And in a 1995 case, the Supreme Court struck down an amendment to the Arkansas constitution that had attempted to impose term limits on federal House members and senators elected from that state. Justice John Paul Stevens wrote that the state had no power to add qualifications to the list of eligibility criteria established by the federal Constitution.

Citing those and other precedents in an aside in a 2000 case before the Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit in Chicago, Judge Richard Posner, who has been deemed the most cited American legal scholar of all time, asserted that Congress lacked authority to supplement the eligibility requirements for the presidency listed in the Constitution.
Tl;dr conviction most likely would not bar Trump from running for President as the criteria for office are listed in the Constitution which stands above all other law and there is no constitutional grant that allows anyone to bar a citizen who fits the criteria outside of impeachment. In order to create such criteria, the case would most likely have to go through Supreme Court which would create precedent, but pre-existing cases side with Trump, albeit in relation to other forms of office.
 

titan_tim

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The Constitution stands above any other law in the land. Congress lack authority to overrule the requirements listed, so while Trump couldn’t run for Mayor, he absolutely could run for President regardless of the conviction on the basis of 2071. This would have to be challenged in court - the Constitution only grants Congress the right to bar someone from running on the basis of impeachment proceedings, not ordinary law.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/09/us/politics/trump-fbi-investigation.html
So let me get this straight.... you're trying to say that no law can EVER triumph over the constitution? Even if there are laws put in place that bar terrorists or traitors from ever holding any office in government, that can never apply to the presidency. Trump can't be a low level clerk in a government office, but he can still be president?

Yeah, I don't see any issue with that. Not saying you're wrong. It just sounds insane. It may go to the supreme court for a final ruling, but with the supreme court the way that it is, they'd lean to Trump's side.
 

Xzi

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The Constitution stands above any other law in the land. Congress lack authority to overrule the requirements listed, so while Trump couldn’t run for Mayor, he absolutely could run for President regardless of the conviction on the basis of 2071. This would have to be challenged in court - the Constitution only grants Congress the right to bar someone from running on the basis of impeachment proceedings, not ordinary law.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/09/us/politics/trump-fbi-investigation.html
The fourteenth only specifies that it binds those who have held office previously, not necessarily those currently in office. Being convicted of any charge which is treason-adjacent could trigger it, though I do quite enjoy imagining the optics of now-convicted felon Trump trying to beat a Democrat he already lost to. Might even flip Texas blue and make hell freeze over.
 

Foxi4

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So let me get this straight.... you're trying to say that no law can EVER triumph over the constitution? Even if there are laws put in place that bar terrorists or traitors from ever holding any office in government, that can never apply to the presidency. Trump can't be a low level clerk in a government office, but he can still be president?

Yeah, I don't see any issue with that. Not saying you're wrong. It just sounds insane. It may go to the supreme court for a final ruling, but with the supreme court the way that it is, they'd lean to Trump's side.
There are laws that could bar him - I’ve listed one. He’d have to be impeached and convicted by the Senate for an infraction that bars one from the office of the Presidency.

EDIT: For the record, this is a built-in safety measure. Imagine a hypothetical situation wherein the government becomes tyrannical - the citizenry has two means of recourse, uprising or getting their own guy in who will veto whatever tyrannical laws Congress may want to push through. It provides means for oversight and puts the power in the hands of the people - if they want a President who was convicted of a felony, they have the right to vote for them. After all, *if* the government was tyrannical, the first thing they’d do would be convicting all relevant political opponents.
The fourteenth only specifies that it binds those who have held office previously, not necessarily those currently in office. Being convicted of any charge which is treason-adjacent could trigger it, though I do quite enjoy imagining the optics of now-convicted felon Trump trying to beat a Democrat he already lost to. Might even flip Texas blue and make hell freeze over.
More funny is more better. President Felon has a nice ring to it.
 

Foxi4

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When it comes to comedy, nothing could possibly beat Trump's head on a pike unless we also set it up at the Russia-Ukraine border.
You guys really hate his guts lol. He can run if he wants to, I think it’ll be entertaining to say the least.
 

Xzi

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You guys really hate his guts lol.
You're not wrong, hated him long before he decided to run for president or even become a D-list reality TV celeb. It was such a godsend when Adult Swim first premiered and every network realized they could do better with their late-night bloc than a bunch of infomercials hosted by a rotting cow carcass.
 
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