Do black lives matter?

(warning: huge rambling political rant ahead. Avoid if allergic)

Intro

It's rather strange, but I tend to follow US politics more than Belgium's. I've seen Donald Trump rise from a badmouthing asshole pissing on other republic nominees, then pissing on the democratic nominee (Hillary Clinton), and then finally the former president. Without even attempting to prove any allegations and insults, let alone fixing anything, but always creating new scandals that kept the previous scandals without consequence somehow. It says something of the political elite that they can't properly block or stop one of the most unfit persons to be presidents to become president.

I've seen the last three years with a mix of anger and fear. Anger because of the so many double standards (how does he even gets away with ONE scandal, let alone more than I can even count?), and fear because the USA still has - with a landslide - the largest army in the world. Breaking alliances, sucking up to dictators, insulting trade partners...In a way, I'm glad that he created about as much domestic disputes as foreign ones, or we'd be in a third world war right now. This whole "world war 3 or civil war 2...or both?" question remained largely up in the air until a certain pandemic.

Covid-19

When the impact of the corona-virus became clear in Belgium in March, I immediately thought I knew how dire situation in the states would become. While we were cautioned to stay at home and take never-seen-before precautions, Trump was keeping a cruise ship in quarantine because "it would negatively impact the number of cases in the USA". Once he started downplaying things and made up bullshit like "I want all the churches open by Easter", I think we all knew he would never admit being wrong. And thus start a war with his own medical experts.

I have to admit that I didn't pay much attention to the mentioning that it were mostly the poorer class that was hit by the virus. Or more to the point: it was within my expectations. The US has always been the most capitalist country in the world, so people getting either fired on the spot or forced to choose between working or not receiving income was the consequence of that. In contrast: in most of Europe, there are systems of absent leaves, teleworking or other kinds of ways to compensate for the forced 'stay at home' order. Of course it costs our country dearly, but the alternative is more corona patients which, in the end, costs the country even more. It's not that the states don't have it, but the way I see it, it's peanuts when compared to the cost of living.
So...the daily casualties rose to much higher than it should be, and when it finally peaked, it didn't drop down as it did in any other country but just hovered there at that peak level. Result: over 100'000 deaths (over 110'000 now, even). Ouch...

The unreality

This is where things would become surreal if you're not used to how Trump thinks. Therefore, I should point out something that somehow isn't clear to everyone just yet:

He Does Not Give A Fuck About Anyone But Himself

If you read it hundred years from now (or somehow live under a rock to this point): this isn't an insult or an exxageration, but harsh truth. He has a bunch of loyal fans whom he praises, but only when they do his bidding. Everyone else can die from the corona-virus for all he cares. Why doesn't he wear a face mask? Because he thinks it makes him look stupid to his base. Why does he imply that cleaning products might be worth investigating in regards to medicine? Because he tries to score on an intellectual level to his base (people aren't stupid enough to gargle bleach...but they ARE stupid enough to believe someone they trust).
In pretty much any country, the population rallied behind their leaders in dealing with this virus. Even half baked ones suddenly see a spike in popularity (and we can DEFINITELY count Belgium among those). Not in the USA. There it's every state or even every city for itself because the federal government decided to deny any responsibility.

Even worse: for a while it was pretty common to hear Trump or Kushner say that things were under control, while any reasonable expert on pandemics warned that the level of testing was critically beneath the bottom line, the hospitals were underprepared and the reports had conflicting advises. Again: what the Trump administration meant was that somehow the Dow Jones maintained stability. Any sane man would say that there's something very wrong with that (what's the purpose of good economy numbers if your unemployment rate is through the roof?), but there's no sane man left in the government.

There's also a more cruel interpretation of that "everything's fine" approach. As I said, the majority of deaths is in the poorer classes. And in a country with as much inherent racism as America, that means "mostly black". Poor people don't give a fuck about the stock market. The "everything" in their lives is their safety, which is still jeopardized,
and their family, who run comparable risks. Everything is fine? No. Not by a long shot. They weren't fine before covid-19 became a threat, but it's grown to be unbearable.

The spark that wasn't a spark

On May 25th, George Floyd died after being pressed to the ground and choked to death by the police. This...

...

Nope. This isn't going to work. I was going to write something in the lines of "this was a spark in a powder keg", but it just wouldn't be a proper analogy. Let's forget about the pandemic for a second. Let's just...say that you are you. You go out to the store for cigarettes and try to pay with a counterfeited 20 dollar bill (forget about the why for a second. Maybe you're drunk). When confronted with this, you refuse to pay with another bill. The cops get called on you. Upon threatened with a gun, you get handcuffed and put on the sidewalk. Then, when backup arrives, you get dragged to their police car.
At this point you go into a frenzy. Fear or claustrophobia. This results in you getting dragged out of the car an on your stomach on the street. Three men hold you down while the fourth puts his knee in your neck. You struggle, but to no avail. You scream that you can't breathe. You scream for your mother. Nothing changes. You're told to get in the car. You say you'll oblige, but again: nothing changes. You say you'll co-operate, that you'll get into the car. Nothing changes. There's a ruckus nearby. Bystanders are questioning what's happening. They're voices in the distance as you lose your conscience. But still the knee is in your neck, restricting your breathing. An ambulance is called but only as it arrives are you released. Way too late. Way too late. (source))

...

Look...I didn't know at that time. With so much modern technology, it's easy to distort what really happened into a mere "a black guy was killed by the police in the USA". It's in that state that I perceived and internalized the news. not to sound cynical, but it's hardly new. Black people were cannon fodder to the police back in Obama's days as well. And well before that, really. At some point, the US police went to war on the street rather than serve and protect its inhabitants. Again: not to diss "the police" or (ugh) "the man", but as a mere state of mind.
I underestimated the initial protests. Internally, I had added Floyd to the long list of people shot by the police. Bad news, yes...but also something that has become a fait divers. A "that's the way it goes". That said way is far more disturbing than I initially thought (just check this comparison for the last ten years if you think that "at war" is overrated). But this goes well and beyond an accidental gunshot because "I thought he was reaching for a gun". Derek Chauvin flat out murdered an unarmed, attempting-to-cooperate, handcuffed guy while on active duty. Anyone who disagrees isn't having a different opinion...(s)he either missed the reconstruction, or is flat out wrong.

Where to go...

I called the USA police department inherent racist because they are (I'm 100% sure there are a thousands of exceptions, but they remain the exception rather than the rule). Since the incident, more and more stories come bubbling to the surface. Treatment of black people under pretenses that simply don't exist for white people. Casual frisks or police stops. Behavior that is seen as suspicious, whereas guys like me can do exactly the same in the USA without being suspicious (man...I really start valuing my white skin while writing this :-). Fucking KILLOLOGY (I wish I was kidding, but no: some rambo actually primes cops as if they're going to be sent out to the battlefield). Of course Floyd's death is an excessive incident even by those standards, but just where exactly ARE those standards to begin with? Chauvin had violent incidents on his name, yet somehow nobody thought it was wrong that he was still on active duty, let alone training other policemen (because yes...that's the defense of the other cops on the scene: Chauvin was the senior officer so he knows best).

This isn't the first mass protest, but I see two major changes to previous protests.

One is, obviously, the bad timing. Protestor's impact is directly related to the amount of people, so we can't really ask people to stay at home. Unfortunately, these are times where "stay at home" is of the utmost importance to limit the spread of the corona-virus. As such, I've got very mixed feelings here. Mass protests strengthen the virus's spread. Both sides know this. But that's far from an excuse to just let things slide. Rather the contrary: everyone who's on the street now is twice as brave as normal protesters. They don't just risk scrutiny, police brutality and any other consequence that follows from
standing up to something those in power don't want, but they also risk catching the virus. People are very fucking DETERMINED to make a change in that country if they're willing to risk their health on top of anything else.

The second surprises me even more: concrete proposals. Defund the police is both radical as what is really needed. It may sound weird, but when you look in detail, it makes a lot of sense. For most of the police's tasks you don't need armed men trained to be fucking killers. So why have them? Union's don't agree, but their credentials make them part of the problem rather than the solution. So why listen to them?
(John Oliver puts it even better: at one point the NYPD went on partial strike, drastically reducing the amount of arrests and interventions. However, to the population there was barely any visibility...which leads to the question: were those arrests and interventions needed in the first place?)

Meanwhile, in the white house

At first I blamed Trump. "If only the guy acted as a president", I'd thought. Pay some respect. Comfort and unite. Y'know: do those things you were hired to do in the first place. Of course he didn't. He not only picked the side of the police but doubled down on that, all but encouraging MORE police brutality. Except there was no "all but", an he really did encourage it. Either way: the crowd quickly turned on him, making him hide in a bunker under the white house.
And it got from that to worse. Dispersing crowds with violence so he can have a stupid picture of him holding a bible sideways (because yeah...why piss off black lives matter protesters when you can piss off them AND catholics?). And all sorts of the most bizarre tweets you've ever seen.

There are a lot of ways I had predicted the end of Trump. His broken promise of the Mexican wall. His trade war with China for absolutely no reason. Sucking up to Russia. His tax records. Longest government shutdown in recent history. The Stormy Daniels affair. The Mueller report. The Ukraine phone call. His mismanagement of the corona crisis. In the end...could this be the one thing that sinks his dictatorship?
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Comments

As much as Blacks think they are oppressed, they invented slavery and were enslaving people thousands of years before any western country was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain

These blacks that were enslaving white Christians seems to be ignored by the BLM types. So do black lives matter? they matter just the same as white, or any other colour matters.

Also you do know that there are still a lot of countries that have slaves - even though it's illegal, and they aren't western countries. All this recent BLM crap has done is make more people racists - more blacks now hate whites and more whites that didn't care one way or the other are looking at how the Blacks are acting and are turning against them.
 
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>mrdude As much as Blacks think they are oppressed, they invented slavery and were enslaving people thousands of years before any western country was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain

These blacks that were enslaving white Christians seems to be ignored by the BLM types. So do black lives matter? they matter just the same as white, or any other colour matters.

Also you do know that there are still a lot of countries that have slaves - even though it's illegal, and they aren't western countries. All this recent BLM crap has done is make more people racists - more blacks now hate whites and more whites that didn't care one way or the other are looking at how the Blacks are acting and are turning against them.



lol thanks @mrdude now I know who to just ignore when we're talking about things that matter.
 
jupitteer said:
Saying that systemic racism doesn't happen because it's illegal is paramount to saying crime doesn't happen because it's illegal.
Show me how and where it happens then, especially to such a degree that it would reflect on society at large. What stats should I be looking at? What case reports (or collections thereof)? What analysis should I do? If I want to see it in action next time I am running around then how can I do that? Any experiments I could perform?

I go looking for stats and
Tertiary/post secondary education demographics
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cpb.asp
Seems OK to me
US active military
https://www.cfr.org/article/demographics-us-military
Seems OK to me.
US police
https://www.governing.com/gov-data/...cer-demographics-minority-representation.html
If we are doing police then let's go lawyers now
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_education/resources/statistics/
Judges
https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/court-role-and-structure
https://www.statista.com/statistics/408483/percentage-of-us-district-court-judges-by-race/ is for district courts
State courts and some others
http://www.judicialselection.us/upl...nd_Gender_Diversity_on_Stat_8F60B84D96CC2.pdf
https://scholarship.law.vanderbilt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1097&context=vlr
The latter makes a song and dance about population parity and also some more for women. I am not sure why that would be a thing or why we care there but in any case seems to be plenty of room for those to play. Does seem to break it down by region as well which could be more of a thing.

Federal workforce
https://www.fedweek.com/issue-briefs/demographics-of-federal-workforce-summarized/
Probably want better and newer stats but again seems OK.

I am being lazy but what do we want to bet that if I went through
https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-sector.htm
and checked against the entries of something like
https://www.backgroundchecks.com/community/Post/5836/Top-10-Largest-Employers-in-the-USA
and figured what percentage of the workforce/employment totals they represent (I don't know how much low employee count employers go in for here offhand).

Most places there seemingly accepting plenty of people, and not just "find us a smart one and dress them nicely so we can say we care" type setups. I have likewise dealt with business owners, dealt with recruiters, dealt with services... the idea that that many of them could keep a secret when they can barely operate a computer or do the things they do that sees me and mine appear in the first place just does track.

To that end I am back to does the US have a racial problem or a poverty and social mobility/class problem? Being all gung ho about solving racism is fine but if the underlying problem is instead poverty and a generally iffy system it seems like a misdirected effort.

sloppycrap said:
I think we agree about most things but:

>Is not legally allowed to be discriminated against, and most of the population (as well as fundamental principles of law making) will come down on those that try it on like a tonne of bricks and certainly will not be seen to actively or tacitly support laws that do.

Yeah, it's not legal, but it happens. Right now is another significant push back against that that people are actually taking seriously.

People seem to think that Martin Luther King, Jr. fixed all the racial problems in America. He did a damn good job of getting things started, but what got him killed was saying the poor expect better from the richest country on the planet. The fact that the rest of the world is *worse than us* on all this means we have farther to go.

I think we're on the same page, and I'd like to make sure that our efforts are working towards the same goal. What can I do to help you in your racist shithole? Because mine is awful, and I don't want anyone living like this.

Again please show me where and how it happens, what mechanisms are in play, what stats reflect this and anything that might tie it to racism rather than some other factor.

I am not sure what the last part is about. Is it a mindset you would encourage having? A question asked of me? For the latter in my case I am in the UK; things are generally fine here just like they are in the US in what I have experienced of it and can see.
 
The police force exists to stop crimes, like burglary, murders, kidnapping, shoplifting, and more. If the police force was to be dissolved entirely, there would be no-one to protect civilians.

Also, the terrorist racist cop-killing arsonist organisation of rioters known as Black Lives Matter should be the one getting dissolved; its history is incredibly shady, with practically nothing good ever coming from it. Race should not affect how one's treated - egalitarianism is crucial - but when the most well-known "protest" group has a checkered past, something's wrong.
Create a new group of actual peaceful protesters, like Martin Luther King Jr. was. Peaceful protests actually help, since they don't create negative controversy the same way a violent bunch of thugs do. Also, if the protesters don't escalate the situation to a violent level, the police wouldn't have any need to respond back with violence, to try to contain the damage - to stop more buildings from being burned down, to stop the rioters from shooting them or pelting them with bricks and Molotov cocktails and stuff.

https://thefederalist.com/2016/07/12/black-lives-matters-violence-undermines-its-credibility/ https://americanfreepress.net/media-covers-up-black-hate-crimes-against-whites/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/07/black-lives-matter-hypocrisy-cheering-violence/ https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katie...-what-it-is-promotion-of-cop-jilling-n2046941
 
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So almost every major corporation and news media, and television network, and politicians is in support of Black Lives Matter. Many Corporations are donating millions of dollars to fight racism. Democrats and Conservatives both agree that George Floyd was killed by a cop that abused his power. Tune into Ben Shapiro and Fox News, they all agree the cop did wrong.

So where is this racism?

Apparently no matter where Black's go, no matter what job they apply to, there is inherent racism everywhere, and they are disadvantaged.

But look at ever major corporation though especially ones that hire people to work for them, they support Black Lives, they said so on Twitter. Nickelodeon Channel says they support Black lives, McDonald's, Amazon, and so many more all support back lives and vows to donate money to fight the evil racism, I always see those comments in support on twitter.

So where is this racism if so many businesses and politicians that have power to influence law say that they support Black Lives?

Someone is lying.
 
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While I would return to the stats stuff from earlier do you really believe this is a genuine corporate or political (if there is even a difference) outpouring? I would sooner go with some kind of PR stunt similar to turning their logo rainbow coloured during the gay alphabet soup month, sticking some camo and a backwards flag on something during whoo for the military week/day, whatever during black history month if there is not a convenient event to latch onto, a "your vote matters" during voting time, green logo during hug a whale day, and whatever other cause celebres that most people of a given place will largely get behind?
Or if you prefer do those companies appear to be doing anything in places where government overreach, cultural sentiments and whatever else are not in any way ambiguous in their desire to screw over one or more of those?
 
@SG854 "Tune into Ben Shapiro and Fox News, they all agree the cop did wrong."

Was that their original stance though, or did they flip to that after the backlash came from suggesting that George Floyd was a hardened criminal and somehow deserved to die over $20? Because I've heard plenty of that drivel just in passing from conservative sources, even if not from Shapiro and Faux News in particular because I don't go seeking out their opinions.

"So where is this racism?"

Well the results of it now lie in coffins. Not sure how much more in-your-face the evidence can get without a police officer literally murdering somebody two feet in front of you.
 
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I was in California in 2010 for medication. In la jolla and there was not many restaurants put friday restaurant so I go there almost every day .... one day the female waitress told me why do come here everyday in the morning or whatever ... dont you have a job ? Hehe I laughed at her hehe and said put I am paying it is not a gift ... she left and gave me my order .... I ate it soo slowly to stay even longer.

I went one day to the restaurant at night ... it was scary to be honest the trees looks like possed by demons hehe ... after I ate I walked to my hotel/something ... anyway there was a white woman walking in front of me ... the distance between us was ok not very close .... but I noticed that she looks behind her alot hehe .... I thought maybe there is someone behind me hehe and she is warning me or something but no only us .... then she walked to other street.

I wont adjust my walking speed just to please her hehe fuck her and her stupid mind

plus few nurses weren’t very nice.
 
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@Xzi That was there original stance. Nobody agrees that Floyd should've died over $20.


George Floyd was a shitty human for armed robbery and holding a gun at a pregnant woman. But he got punished for that and got 5 years in prison. So now he has seemed to change his ways and even advocate against gun violence, so people do learn for their mistakes.

What drove him to use the counterfeit money and back to a life of crime was likely that he recently got laid off from work due to corona virus shut down. Which is sad that shut down caused someone to go back to crime after they decided to change it for the better. (Dont know if the money was actually confirmed to be counterfeit though)

The where is the racism. Read the last sentence I typed, "someone is lying."
 
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You guys hate black and arab people because they gained power and nicer life than you.

in france too some hotels wont let us rent from them for no reason.

there men dont act as bad as there women... they are true bitchs hehe
 
@Mohammed2935 If Black people gained a nicer life and power then why are they protesting that they don't have a nice life?
 
Better treatment from me? How am I making it harder for blacks, lol. Everyday I wake up go to work, come home watch movies or play a video game, chat with friends, eat food. Thats about it. I have no idea that doing these things made it hard for blacks, lol.
 
@SG854 "someone is lying."

Call it a hunch, but I think it might be the people in positions of authority who still wave the confederate flag every chance they get. RATM's line, "some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses" is as relevant today as it has ever been.
 
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@Xzi Everytime a corporation says they support Black Lives Matter, I automatically distrust. It reeks PR Stunt.
 
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