Xbox One Official Requirements: Waive Your Rights

[Bladexdsl]

you're pretty much renting the console and the games you never really own them

 

[Metoroid0]

Yes, but it's still quite a bit more powerful than the PS3 and 360, as analysis and the majority of developers speaking out on the issue have shown multiple times. This whole "Wii U is old gen, hurrhurr!" is getting old.

Heh sorryyy , I was just saying how I see it, no need for discussion, but that's just natural I guess so

It's kinda obvious to me even if I didn't know tech specs of WiiU and PS4/XBOX one, it's obvious that WiiU kinda fall behind, but it's new generation just because it came out at the same time as PS4/XBOX one.

I mean if you think about it and look into the past, You will see that that's Nintendo's tradition kinda...

But to stick with newer consoles...
You can't really say that with previous generations that Wii is the rival of PS3/360, can you?

I like this very much.

To add I understand "more power" in consoles is define next gen or not now days. This is not the case. No matter how inferior a console is compared to others... it still is next gen depending on the time frame release. For example.. NGC/PS2/XBox: Wii/PS3/360: WiiU/PS4/XBone. That is the reality if you do not like it.

Perhaps I am wrong on match up list there but is something like that.

tl;dr power of console does not influence generation for shit. even this "true" next gen BS.

I am sincerely sorry for rudeness.

Haha NO, why sorry, it's OK.
You're not rude, you are just speaking how you see it

Hm, GameCube WAS more powerful than PS2 as i remember.

And for that new generation thing..i think you're right!

Look what i found just now on Wikipedia:
Generation (from the Latin generāre, meaning "to beget"),
also known as biogenesis, reproduction, or procreation in biological sciences,
is the act of producing offspring. In kinship terminology,
it is a structural term designating the parent-child relationship.

So as I understood, even though WiiU & PS4/XBOXone or Wii & PS4/360 has nothing in common on technical side, and Nintendo is falling behind then in that field, it still IS a NEW generation console.
Because the word generation itself means "the act of producing offspring" so it has nothing to do with comparison.

This whole "Wii U is old gen, hurrhurr!" is getting old.

Well sorry, but that's how it is, if it wasn't me, than someone else could bring that up..
but if you don't like what I said, that doesn't mean it's generally boring.

But as I said, sorry if it's boring.

 

[SifJar]

Obviously buying the hammer is better for me, the consumer, than renting one, therefore I would like to preserve that ability.

Not necessarily. Let's say the hammer costs £10 (or $10 or whatever). Renting it for a week costs £3/$3. I only need it for one job, and I don't intend to use it for anything outside of the "acceptable use" policy anyway (I only want to stick a few nails in the wall to hang some pictures, which is fine by the rental company). I've saved £7, and most people would agree, saving money is good for the consumer.

As a (more realistic) example, I subscribe to Netflix. Now I generally watch at least a season or two of TV shows, and maybe a film or two each month. Not excessive usage, but if I were buying those things on DVD, it could cost about £15+ for each season of the TV shows and perhaps £5-£10 for each film. Total content of perhaps £30-£40 a month. As it is, I pay £6 a month. I'm unlikely to watch the content again, so I lose absolutely nothing by not owning the physical DVDs. Instead, I save about £24-£34 a month over what I might otherwise spend.

Just because you have less rights with a service, doesn't mean it's worse. Most of the "rights" you have with goods, many people will probably never really use anyway.

 

[Metoroid0]

Not necessarily. Let's say the hammer costs £10 (or $10 or whatever). Renting it for a week costs £3/$3. I only need it for one job, and I don't intend to use it for anything outside of the "acceptable use" policy anyway (I only want to stick a few nails in the wall to hang some pictures, which is fine by the rental company). I've saved £7, and most people would agree, saving money is good for the consumer.

As a (more realistic) example, I subscribe to Netflix. Now I generally watch at least a season or two of TV shows, and maybe a film or two each month. Not excessive usage, but if I were buying those things on DVD, it could cost about £15+ for each season of the TV shows and perhaps £5-£10 for each film. Total content of perhaps £30-£40 a month. As it is, I pay £6 a month. I'm unlikely to watch the content again, so I lose absolutely nothing by not owning the physical DVDs. Instead, I save about £24-£34 a month over what I might otherwise spend.

Just because you have less rights with a service, doesn't mean it's worse. Most of the "rights" you have with goods, many people will probably never really use anyway.

IMO, It's not about finding logic, but what people want and giving them option.
But if it's ultimatum then bye bye Microsoft.

It's like "if you don't like it then don't buy it or buy XBOX360" sincerely, your Microsoft..." oh wow, thank you for your NEW console Microsoft.

But, as far as I'm concerned, I can live life without XBOXone.
They can do whatever they want, it's theirs, but ultimately people are the ones that are giving them their money.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

you're pretty much renting the console and the games you never really own them

You never "own" any of your games, you only "own" a license to use them.

Also can someone please give me the source with the EXACT used game policy that the Xbox One has? There's been a lot of confusion in this department and now for some reason everyone's saying it flatout blocks used games.

 

[FAST6191]

Also can someone please give me the source with the EXACT used game policy that the Xbox One has? There's been a lot of confusion in this department and now for some reason everyone's saying it flatout blocks used games.

I thought that one was already cleared up, not favourably to anybody that enjoys the standard model of computer game sales (I am hesitant to use terms like rights but I will anyway) but cleared up none the less
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.

Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

 

[Veho]

Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.

Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

So basically users won't be able to re-sell, give or trade games, unless the publisher allows it. As opposed to PS4, where the users will be able to re-sell, give or trade games, if the publisher allows it. Major difference.


Penny Arcade's Tycho had this to say on the subject:

I’ve seen it mentioned in a few places that one of Microsoft’s main problems at E3 was “messaging.” That’s always been one of their main problems, that’s not new, and it’s exacerbated because they’re always trying to do shit that requires super tight message. [...] They’ve never been able to explain themselves, and part of it is an engineer culture that doesn’t (marketing term incoming) “face” consumers and, I would suspect, resents being made to explain why something which is so manifestly efficient and purposeful would need to be. Contrast this with Sony, which is almost completely a brand exercise and for whom the tone and texture of a message is the primary product.

 

[SifJar]

So basically users won't be able to re-sell, give or trade games, unless the publisher allows it. As opposed to PS4, where the users will be able to re-sell, give or trade games, if the publisher allows it. Major difference.

Not really, only real difference is first party games. Each publisher will choose their stance, and apply it to both platforms.

 

[FAST6191]

So basically users won't be able to re-sell, give or trade games, unless the publisher allows it. As opposed to PS4, where the users will be able to re-sell, give or trade games, if the publisher allows it. Major difference.

Penny Arcade's Tycho had this to say on the subject:

I’ve seen it mentioned in a few places that one of Microsoft’s main problems at E3 was “messaging.” That’s always been one of their main problems, that’s not new, and it’s exacerbated because they’re always trying to do shit that requires super tight message. [...] They’ve never been able to explain themselves, and part of it is an engineer culture that doesn’t (marketing term incoming) “face” consumers and, I would suspect, resents being made to explain why something which is so manifestly efficient and purposeful would need to be. Contrast this with Sony, which is almost completely a brand exercise and for whom the tone and texture of a message is the primary product.

No argument that Sony has placed style over substance on many occasions but I would love to see MS spin this properly. Hell I would even go so far as to say what MS attempted to do would have been amazing had they not tried to screw us (publishers being able to decide and restrictions on resale count as that). I would not be surprised in the slightest to see publishers vetoing the proposals to do it properly but I guess that is a slightly different discussion.

 

[Foxi4]

Not really, only real difference is first party games. Each publisher will choose their stance, and apply it to both platforms.

Not true. XBox One has an organized infrastructure where the publishers and select store chains (inb4monopoly) decide the prices of used games - on the PS4 the price of used games is regulated by the market itself - by supply and demand. Huge difference.

The only thing Sony specified is that they will not restrict publishers if they want to include DRM in their titles because at the end of the day "It's the customer who makes the choice/votes with his/her wallet".

 

[Veho]

Hell I would even go so far as to say what MS attempted to do would have been amazing had they not tried to screw us (publishers being able to decide and restrictions on resale count as that).

The PS4 lets publishers restrict resales as well (online passes, required registration, etc.). Sony only said they wouldn't enforce any restrictions themselves, but the publishers still have that discretion. On the other hand, the Xbone will enforce resale restrictions if the publishers demand it - they are free to allow unrestricted resales. As SifJar said, publishers will take a stance on the matter, and I don't think any of them will allow resales on the PS4 but restrict them on the Xbone.

 

[FAST6191]

The PS4 lets publishers restrict resales as well (online passes, required registration, etc.). Sony only said they wouldn't enforce any restrictions themselves, but the publishers still have that discretion. On the other hand, the Xbone will enforce resale restrictions if the publishers demand it - they are free to allow unrestricted resales. As SifJar said, publishers will take a stance on the matter, and I don't think any of them will allow resales on the PS4 but restrict them on the Xbone.

I shall have to read up more on the PS4. As distasteful as I find online passes it seems fairly legit as far an end run around things goes. The required registration thing would be a step (or nine) too far for my taste though.

 

[Rydian]

Not necessarily. Let's say the hammer costs £10 (or $10 or whatever). Renting it for a week costs £3/$3. I only need it for one job, and I don't intend to use it for anything outside of the "acceptable use" policy anyway (I only want to stick a few nails in the wall to hang some pictures, which is fine by the rental company). I've saved £7, and most people would agree, saving money is good for the consumer.

As a (more realistic) example, I subscribe to Netflix. Now I generally watch at least a season or two of TV shows, and maybe a film or two each month. Not excessive usage, but if I were buying those things on DVD, it could cost about £15+ for each season of the TV shows and perhaps £5-£10 for each film. Total content of perhaps £30-£40 a month. As it is, I pay £6 a month. I'm unlikely to watch the content again, so I lose absolutely nothing by not owning the physical DVDs. Instead, I save about £24-£34 a month over what I might otherwise spend.

Just because you have less rights with a service, doesn't mean it's worse. Most of the "rights" you have with goods, many people will probably never really use anyway.

TV then?

EDIT: It's also really annoying how I can't fucking metaphor around here unless I choose like a 98% duplicate. :\

 

[SifJar]

TV then?

EDIT: It's also really annoying how I can't fucking metaphor around here unless I choose like a 98% duplicate. :\

I'm not really sure what you mean by "TV then?" - do you mean I should watch stuff on TV rather than Netflix/DVD? Because I do try to do that where possible, but many of the decent shows I want to watch are exclusive to paid subscription packages here, which are invariably about 5 times the price of Netflix. Plus that doesn't cover on demand content that isn't broadcast any more. When something decent is on Freeview (the free digital TV service in the UK), I make sure to watch/record it where possible.

And I have noticed a lot of your metaphors seem to be about hammers

 

[Rydian]

I'm not really sure what you mean by "TV then?" - do you mean I should watch stuff on TV rather than Netflix/DVD? Because I do try to do that where possible, but many of the decent shows I want to watch are exclusive to paid subscription packages here, which are invariably about 5 times the price of Netflix. Plus that doesn't cover on demand content that isn't broadcast any more. When something decent is on Freeview (the free digital TV service in the UK), I make sure to watch/record it where possible.

I meant think about it in terms of a TV instead of a hammer, since that's closer in the regard that people want to have a TV for a long time.

And I have noticed a lot of your metaphors seem to be about hammers

I try to keep it simple so people understand the concept.

Also when I make it about sex toys AW gets mad.

 

[SifJar]

I meant think about it in terms of a TV instead of a hammer, since that's closer in the regard that people want to have a TV for a long time.

Ah OK. That makes more sense.

 

[fluffykiwi]

they said 500 billion bytes = 465.7 GB which i believe is within normal formatting loss. I think they are just disclaiming this to save their own asses some trouble.

They actually say the Xbox One system software uses a significant amount of storage; less internal storage will be available to users.
I read that as the system software takes up a significant amount of the 500 Gb. I believe the formatting loss is a separate unavoidable issue. I just wonder how much is classed as significant. BUT you are not getting 465.7 GB.

 

[Foxi4]

Let's say I go buy a hammer. I take it home, the company that made it can fuck off. I have my hammer, I can do whatever. If I use it in a way they do not like, fuck them, I'm going to use it in that way all I want.

...am I entitled to sue if the hammer's performance is unsatifactory or when it does something to spite me? I want to have the right to sue if my hammer smacks me on my thumb... (Naturally the smacking is a result of faulty engineering, not my inability to use hammers in a safe fashion)

 

[Wintrale]

Not true. XBox One has an organized infrastructure where the publishers and select store chains (inb4monopoly) decide the prices of used games - on the PS4 the price of used games is regulated by the market itself - by supply and demand. Huge difference.

The only thing Sony specified is that they will not restrict publishers if they want to include DRM in their titles because at the end of the day "It's the customer who makes the choice/voices with his/her wallet".

Which will lead to an ecosystem where preowned games are a lot cheaper on the PS4 since there are no added fees or restrictions.

 

[Veho]

Which will lead to an ecosystem where preowned games are a lot cheaper on the PS4 since there are no added fees or restrictions.

...other than those set by the publisher.