Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[ShadowOne333]

Where can I get an original cartridge of Pong for verification in Devolution?

 

[HNKii]

Where can I get my original cartridge of Pong for verification in Devolution?

LOL

 

[c4p0]

The developer of a game may decide to re-release their game on a modern platform in the future. If there was a means of playing their game at the moment without you purchasing it, then that's a potential sale lost for that developer.

Just Stop. If someone wanted to play the new released version they would buy it otherwise it would be just a lousy remake if you could get the same experience with the older version.

 

[grossaffe]

Just Stop. If someone wanted to play the new released version they would buy it otherwise it would be just a lousy remake if you could get the same experience with the older version.

The older version that you did not pay for.

 

[HNKii]

If there's one day I have enough time I might as well try hacking the verification.
Or simply try to check Devo's code and see if its support for audio streaming could be used on other homebrews.
I understand that the author has his rights to do anything to his work even though I hated its AP (especially when it has a super-high compatibility )
Good news that I already have a GCN with XENO mod chip to load Backups.

 

[ShadowOne333]

If there's one day I have enough time I might as well try hacking the verification.
Or simply try to check Devo's code and see if its support for audio streaming could be used on other homebrews.
I understand that the author has his rights to do anything to his work even though I hated its AP (especially when it has a super-high compatibility )
Good news that I already have a GCN with XENO mod chip to load Backups.

How would you check Devo's code if it is close-source?
Actually, audio streaming is quite an interesting feature that I would love to see in other homebrews.

 

[HNKii]

How would you check Devo's code if it is close-source?
Actually, audio streaming is quite an interesting feature that I would love to see in other homebrews.

I guess you're right, BTW, what exactly is "Audio streaming" for GameCube? Saw that term a million times but never actually knew any examples.
My only concerns for audio streaming is that if the"Interactive GC Demo disks" are included.

 

[grossaffe]

How would you check Devo's code if it is close-source?

There's always a way. One might not be able to look at the C code that created the binary, but you can decompile the binary into assembly language and try to follow it that way. Not nearly as easy to follow as C, but it's doable.

 

[ShadowOne333]

There's always a way. One might not be able to look at the C code that created the binary, but you can decompile the binary into assembly language and try to follow it that way. Not nearly as easy to follow as C, but it's doable.

Well that is actually a way.
Reverse-engineering.

I didn't really know that you could decompile the code in assembly and then my guess is that someone who knows both languages can begin to transfer from Assembly to C. Right?

I guess you're right, BTW, what exactly is "Audio streaming" for GameCube? Saw that term a million times but never actually knew any examples.
My only concerns for audio streaming is that if the"Interactive GC Demo disks" are included.

Check this:
http://www.gc-forever.com/wiki/index.php?title=Audio_Streaming

 

[HNKii]

Check this:
http://www.gc-forever.com/wiki/index.php?title=Audio_Streaming

So my Hard Modded GCN won't play music from Audio streaming games either?

 

[bobmcjr]

So my Hard Modded GCN won't play music from Audio streaming games either?

Only Devolution and Dolphin. Maybe Nintendont eventually.

 

[grossaffe]

Well that is actually a way.
Reverse-engineering.

I didn't really know that you could decompile the code in assembly and then my guess is that someone who knows both languages can begin to transfer from Assembly to C. Right?

Assembly code is basically a direct translation of binary into human-readable format. As for translating to C, there's no need. C code compiles down to assembly before it ultimately goes into binary, and you can link assembly code to a C project. I've written a couple projects where I used C as the base of the project and then wrote functions in assembly that were called from my C code.

Finally someone that gets it buying used game is exactly the same as piracy in both case the people that made the game get 0$. I can't stand the saintier than though douchebag that say that piracy is bad but buy all there game used. If you can buy it new then do it, if you can't then pirating is not worst or better than buying it used, its exactly the same.

except that in so many cases, people sell their used games in order to get money to purchase new games, so by not putting money into the used game market, you're keeping money out of the new game market.

 

[ShadowOne333]

Assembly code is basically a direct translation of binary into human-readable format. As for translating to C, there's no need. C code compiles down to assembly before it ultimately goes into binary, and you can link assembly code to a C project. I've written a couple projects where I used C as the base of the project and then wrote functions in assembly that were called from my C code.

Interesting read. Thanks for the explanation, I am only familiar with C and it's derived forms rather than assembly.
So basically if someone gets the code out of the .dol into assembly then we might have the Main C code in no-time?

 

[grossaffe]

Interesting read. Thanks for the explanation, I am only familiar with C and it's derived forms rather than assembly.
So basically if someone gets the code out of the .dol into assembly then we might have the Main C code in no-time?

No, we never get C code out of it unless someone wants to go to the process of translating assembly into C. But because you can directly link assembly code into a C project, there's no need. That having been said, isolating the code you want to reverse engineer is no simple process, especially if it's been scrubbed of it's symbols. And if someone wants to obscure their code to make it hard to follow, it can be a nightmare to reverse-engineer.
I have a professor that likes to tell the story about when his boss told him that when he was finished with the project, he was gonna be fired, so he made his assembly code as obscure as possible so that if anyone else looked at it, they'd have no idea what was being done. And the firmware had to be updated every six months or so, which means that after he finished his job, he received a phone call six months later asking him to come back because nobody could figure out how his code worked so they couldn't perform any updates to it. Now being in a position of power, he gave them the conditions of his return, including triple his previous salary.

If someone wants to keep you from reverse-engineering their code, they can make life really difficult. If you do manage to find the functions you're looking for, though, you may be able to just drop it into your C project as an external file you link to, much like when you include C files other than your main. I could be completely off base here, but I think that at one point Nintendont was using some DSP stuff ripped directly out of Devolution (maybe something to do with using a RAM dump to find what they were looking for?), but has since removed that and added their own code to replace it (possibly code the wrote having reverse-engineered what they got from Devo?)

 

[bobmcjr]

...

AFAIK nothing useful ever came out of that ram dump, mostly speculation... Here is the decrypted r197 from it if anyone wants to mess around with it.

 

[Plstic]

So my Hard Modded GCN won't play music from Audio streaming games either?

As long as it running from a disc it should be no problem. bobmcjr is wrong

 

[bobmcjr]

As long as it running from a disc it should be no problem. bobmcjr is wrong

Fair enough, I don't deal with chips too much. But as the list shows there are some games where audio streaming does not function fully.

 

[ShadowOne333]

Well, in my personal opinion...

I think anti-piracy at this high level of console evolution is quite uncalled for, even if it is just for games from Gamecube or any other console.
Let me explain why:

a) First, we are seeking games that are two generations behind of the current gen (Wii U, Xbox One and PS4), which makes them out of stock by obvious reasons and not available in any other place but online bids and sells, which is not an option for people living in certain countries. People in other places do not have the same advantages that USA citizens have...
b) Second, we have to get a previous generation console (Wii) to be able to verify the two-gen-old game to be able to play it into a current gen console. A bit of a pain there.
c) Third, the developers DO NOT deserve to get any more money out of those games at all. They had their time to get money out of that game, that's it.
Why are they trying to squeeze every penny out of a game that came out almost 10 years ago?
Beats me, I say greed is the rootcause and RE 4 is the living example of that.

There should be a limit as to how much time can a company make a profit out of a product they made years ago.
If the product has surpassed the time limit and a person wants to use that product for whatever reason (without making money for themselves, of course), then there should be no due of payment to the company. Something similar to the case of Nintendo VS. Universal, in which Universal sued Nintendo for the rights of Donkey Kong (King Kong) and they lost due to the license being terminated by a time limit.

Even if the developers somehow make a re-release of the game into the current gen, people that already have it should in no way pay for those ports.
Just because they don't have the current hardware available to play those games doesn't mean they have to pay again to play them.
Also, don't forget that any product, being it hardware or anything else, has a life cycle and they will eventually fail. Even if it was the console itself or the disc got damaged, you paid for the game at its due time, full price and you don't have to pay again for something that might as well be "expired"

Playing roms and having emulators is what keeps gaming alive for me. I could care less about new releases since most of them are just sequels and re-hashes of the same.

Sorry to get this all out, but is just my opinion about how I feel for the gaming industry now-a-day :/

 

[HNKii]

Well, in my personal opinion...

I think anti-piracy at this high level of console evolution is quite uncalled for, even if it is just for games from Gamecube or any other console.
Let me explain why:

a) First, we are seeking games that are two generations behind of the current gen (Wii U, Xbox One and PS4), which makes them out of stock by obvious reasons and not available in any other place but online bids and sells, which is not an option for people living in certain countries. People in other places do not have the same advantages that USA citizens have...
b) Second, we have to get a previous generation console (Wii) to be able to verify the two-gen-old game to be able to play it into a current gen console. A bit of a pain there.
c) Third, the developers DO NOT deserve to get any more money out of those games at all. They had their time to get money out of that game, that's it.
Why are they trying to squeeze every penny out of a game that came out almost 10 years ago?
Beats me, I say greed is the rootcause and RE 4 is the living example of that.

There should be a limit as to how much time can a company make a profit out of a product they made years ago.
If the product has surpassed the time limit and a person wants to use that product for whatever reason (without making money for themselves, of course), then there should be no due of payment to the company. Something similar to the case of Nintendo VS. Universal, in which Universal sued Nintendo for the rights of Donkey Kong (King Kong) and they lost due to the license being terminated by a time limit.

Even if the developers somehow make a re-release of the game into the current gen, people that already have it should in no way pay for those ports.
Just because they don't have the current hardware available to play those games doesn't mean they have to pay again to play them.
Also, don't forget that any product, being it hardware or anything else, has a life cycle and they will eventually fail. Even if it was the console itself or the disc got damaged, you paid for the game at its due time, full price and you don't have to pay again for something that might as well be "expired"

Playing roms and having emulators is what keeps gaming alive for me. I could care less about new releases since most of them are just sequels and re-hashes of the same.

Sorry to get this all out, but is just my opinion about how I feel for the gaming industry now-a-day :/

Let's hope tueidj finally releases the code in the 15TH anniversary of GCN

Only Devolution and Dolphin. Maybe Nintendont eventually.

Dolphin is good enough BTW, is it 100%(or at least mostly) compatible?
IDK if there's a way to take Dolphin's audio stream code and use that on Wiis, probably not very realistic, for crediar would have did that if he could...

 

[the_randomizer]

Let's hope tueidj finally releases the code in the 15TH anniversary of GCN

Dolphin is good enough BTW, is it 100%(or at least mostly) compatible?
IDK if there's a way to take Dolphin's audio stream code and use that on Wiis, probably not very realistic, for crediar would have did that if he could...

Dolphin is far from 100% compatible and still has quite a ways to go.