Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

WiiCube_2013

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I've bought the NGC I had on my wishlist but I don't think the NGC discs work inside a Wii U from what I read so the anti-piracy thingy is kind of weird.

It'd be awesome if Nintendo this year made the GamePad compatible with the Wii Mode to play with it, rather than just as a Mini-TV so we could also play NGC games through this app or something.
 

Apache Thunder

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Alright posting this on my current opinion on Anti-piracy in the homebrew community as a whole. I originally made this reply for a topic in the 3DS section, but decided that AP discussions are just off topic just about everywhere in that section as there wasn't a dedicated thread about this.

This is the only main topic discussion thread about AP that I know of so here it is. I've tacked on the Wii to all mentions of the DS since they came a round the same generation, so it qualifies for this.

My opinion on piracy in this generation of handhelds (and the Wii-U)?

The main problem with this generation of consoles (on the Nintendo side anyway, have no idea what's going on on the Sony/Microsoft side) that sets it apart from the DS/Wii is that most home brew developers or at least the ones that know what they are doing have for whatever reason decided to keep secrets and release everything in a trickle. Sure having the anti-piracy stance isn't wrong, but the thing is, this comes at a price.

Eventually someone will figure out how to pirate games, and it has happened with the Gateway. The big problem with this console over the DS, is that there is very little in the way of useful public homebrew on the 3DS (and none at all on the Wii-U...vWii doesn't really count) while piracy is the dominate form of custom code use on the 3DS. There currently is very little legitimate soft/hard-modding of this console right now so piracy gets all of the spotlight/attention which has started and continued this endless cycle of worry over piracy and AP measures.

The hackers/coders spent too much time keeping their work under lock and key and now the only practical purpose of running custom software on the 3DS is 99% piracy while there remains nothing at all for the Wii-U scene. (As I mentioned before, vWii shouldn't really count). There's emunand and that's about it not to mention you STILL need to either buy a flashcart or use a launcher made by a flashcart company to even try that (without bricking anyway. :P ). The Nintendo DS for the most part required a flashcart as well, but this was technical limitations of the technology at the time. Handhelds at this time didn't really yet have full fledges OS backend software because the processing/ram requirements just couldn't handle it yet.

But the 3DS and perhaps the DSi that preceded it was the first Nintendo handheld that could have completely open source and free methods of launching homebrew. The Wii was the shining example of this in the consoles world. But a sad fate is starting to befall the 3DS and Wii-U.

So now piracy is the dominate form of custom software on the 3DS now. Congrats. The very evil you were trying to suppress is now stronger then ever.. Back in the days of the DS/Wii, the console was cracked open and piracy and homebrew flowed out at the same time, so then piracy could at least be held in check by the tons of homebrew that ended up getting made so there was always a legit reason for soft-modding a console/handheld.

You guys seriously shot your selves in the foot on this one. This console and 3DS may very well become obsolete and obscure by the time any real homebrew comes out and Nintendo will already be close to releasing a new console and/or handheld. Thus at that point the coders and hackers will move on to focus on the future new thing that came out and leave behind the 3DS to wilt away in homebrew obscurity only to repeat this cycle over again.

Remember the DSi? That's the path the homebrew scene will end up for this wonderful device if this continues. The DSi wasn't a big leap from the DS, so there wasn't quite as much interest in it, so not much homebrew was done for it. So homebrew for that device died out for different reasons.

But 3DS will share the DSi's fate in this regard if the big time coders and hackers continue to keep all their work behind the curtain. Free piracy is the lesser evil then paid piracy in the infinite war of inevitability. This is the best stance you can have in the software piracy wars that can never truly be won in the age of the internet.

Buying a flashcart/modchip puts money into the hands of a shady company that might then pass that money on to more shady people. At least if free piracy was made possible via software solutions instead, folks like Gateway won't be swimming in black market cash and funding child sex trafficking rings or something with all that cash earned from selling flashcarts/modchips because nobody had the balls to release homebrew that might very well lead to piracy anyway but can have many practical legitimate uses. That's probably an exaggeration, but the point stands.

My opinion is that the homebrew developers waiting around until they figure out the best way to use DRM/AP protection on their software will only stifle innovation and embolden sponsored piracy.

I am not directing this at Smealum or the creator of Devolution in particular but the community as a whole. Really it seems things went downhill after the developer behind Devolution decided to use AP measures in a backup launcher. It's not limited to just one developer now. It sets bad precedent and we are seeing the results of that.

It seems the entire hacking community this generation in Nintendo consoles has become too squeamish at the mere mention of piracy and have decided to stay behind the curtain and become closet coders that may very well never release anything or release something that's horribly crippled in terms of usefulness due to misguided attempts to put in AP measures.


The increasing complexity of the hardware and security measures of future consoles/handhelds only serves the speed up the self-implosion of the homebrew community and I fear we will become a thing of the past. A golden age at the birth of the internet only to be snuffed out in a thermonuclear anti piracy war waged upon ourselves.

The most depressing way to lose our freedom over the products we purchase is not becoming slaves of the corporations and "the man" by force, but willingly putting the shackles on ourselves and offering our heads on the alter to be sacrificed without a fight. I can only hope this is not what ends up happening, but alas, I just don't see us escaping it at this trajectory.


Also, some could say that some of the slow down in holding back releases is to prevent Nintendo from patching it. That's a fools errand. That will happen anyway whether the exploit gets released anyway and besides, the value of the exploit doesn't turn to dust the moment Nintendo patches it. If that wasn't true, then why is the Gateway selling like hotcakes? Despite it being limited on a older firmware revision? Yeah that worked out great for you. You could have waited till halfway into the life cycle of this console, which is not problem.

Right when the mset hack got discovered was probably the right moment to start releasing homebrew and such, But nope, You all waited and now that exploit either got leaked out or someone else figured out the same thing and now it it rests solely in the hands of the flashcart companies. Trying to stay one step ahead of Nintendo in the console wars is a**backwards of doing things. The best thing you can do is work on the console until the device matures in the market, then release the exploit and open the homebrew flood gates.

Regardless of what Nintendo does, someone will then eventually put together a custom CFW which would then render the need to keep uptodate on the latest firmware a thing of the past. The fact is there will always be some 4.5 consoles on the market somewhere, so the homebrew community will never find it impossible to find them, because the larger gaming community who doesn't use homebrew won't have a reason to buy them all up and thus the supply won't dwindle too quick during the lifetime of the console. Not only that, the sooner a exploit gets released, the more people in the homebrew world will know and then wait and not update their consoles. Which then in turn increases the future supply of said consoles. Wasted opportunity!

That's my final thoughts on this discussion. :P
 

Burton

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Too sad you took the time to write this! It's not pointless!!! I believe your post is!!! And is one of the best software apps in the Wii/Wii U Homebrew scene!
There are no demands!!! For Wii U users is exactly the ultimate solution!!!
Your ideas are totally biased!
I don't get your reply nor your point to a 2 yrs old post I don't even remember well the issue back then lol
 

air2004

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I'm starting to think that maybe he did the AP as proof of concept.
By that I mean , he has proven that you create AP in homebrew that can slow down piracy , it won't stop it though.
 

naddel81

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I'm starting to think that maybe he did the AP as proof of concept.
By that I mean , he has proven that you create AP in homebrew that can slow down piracy , it won't stop it though.



could I grab my pirated DVD-Rs and put them into my wiikey-modded Wii to trick the AP in devolution? I think so.
Had no need to do that, because all games I tried ran on dios-mios so far. But maybe I want to play waverace some time from HDD, then I could load up devoltion using the trick mentioned above, right?
 

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Etheboss

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could I grab my pirated DVD-Rs and put them into my wiikey-modded Wii to trick the AP in devolution? I think so.
Had no need to do that, because all games I tried ran on dios-mios so far. But maybe I want to play waverace some time from HDD, then I could load up devoltion using the trick mentioned above, right?
Why don't you try it and see what happens. ;)
 

Maxternal

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too lazy. will certainly work. why shouldn't it? devolution cannot detect the wiikey, can it?
I know there are some (maybe not all?) modchips it doesn't work with .. but not sure if that's because it's directly detecting them and refusing to work or for some other reason (I do know there are some that just cause problems in the verification process for other reasons like region free hacks or built in read error skipping)
Interestingly enough, though, there's no Devolution Modchip compatibility list anywhere.
 

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When I tried using devolution with a system with a modchip, devolution couldn't verify the games on boot.
 

the_randomizer

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In this day and age who isn't....still got the games verified on another Wii and still play them fine on the Wii U B-)


I was being facetious, but I know what you meant :P I have all my Gamecube and Wii games on my HDD because I'm a dirty pirate and refuse to use physical discs when I have all them in my possession :creep:

Anyways, I'm waiting for Nintendont, showing a lot progress.
 

Thomas83Lin

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could I grab my pirated DVD-Rs and put them into my wiikey-modded Wii to trick the AP in devolution? I think so.
Had no need to do that, because all games I tried ran on dios-mios so far. But maybe I want to play waverace some time from HDD, then I could load up devoltion using the trick mentioned above, right?
If you have the wiikey v1 it'll work but only with older versions of devo. I've personally done it with a yaosm.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/how-to-use-devolution-with-backup-discs.361783/
 

naxil

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if devo without ap come out.. i think kill all other KIND program/HW for launch gc games on wii/wiiU.
Nobody continue to use dm(l) or nintendo sd or usb with devo free....
 

c3pu

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Just setup Dios-Mios.

Piracy is stealing games that are still being sold and making money for the developers not loading up some 14 year old Gamecube games that you can't purchase from Nintendo any more.

Finally someone that gets it buying used game is exactly the same as piracy in both case the people that made the game get 0$. I can't stand the saintier than though douchebag that say that piracy is bad but buy all there game used. If you can buy it new then do it, if you can't then pirating is not worst or better than buying it used, its exactly the same.
 

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