Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[Elegant]

I just think it's ridiculous we have 41 pages of crap that the dev could and most likely has started to ignore. All this shows is how much time people can waste complaining about something that is beyond there control hoping that it will somehow work. Considering the amount of time wasted on this thread I bet someone could've reversed it. But we'll be damned if we have to do work when we can complain about it!

 

[wiismodrome]

People also continue to talk about racism... something mostly beyond their control. Racism still exists. Should they just shut up about it? The purpose of the thread is not to try to convince the dev (if that were even possible). It is to talk about whether or not there is a valid justification for using AP on a USB loader made for games which are long out of production.

 

[Elegant]

Nope just wasting time complaining. Even if you and every one else but the dev deemed that it was not a valid justification what are you gonna do about it? Nothing because there's nothing you can do!

Here's why we shouldn't have AP: Blah blah blah

Dev: I don't care.

Well lets just keep iterating why you shouldn't.

Dev: Okay... later!

WASTING TIME. Rather than saying why it should be removed why not remove it yourself?

Racism is just something you can never fix. Ever. Keep hoping though. This is something you can fix without the dev problem is effort (oh and don't give me some BS about fixing racist remarks with effort you're trying to compare apples with oranges if you are).

 

[PsyBlade]

and how exactly is waht you are dooing any different?

 

[Elegant]

Trying to get people doing something useful. At least I'm sitting here with IDA Pro open. Though Riivolution to me is more interesting than this at the moment so I'm looking at that. Time wasted complaining could be used to help overcome said hurdle.

 

[wiismodrome]

This thread also has a secondary purpose: to keep discussion about Devolution's AP out of the main Devolution thread.

 

[PsyBlade]

At least I'm sitting here with IDA Pro open.

5.0 worth a look?

edit: nvm: seems to be windows only anyway

 

[wiismodrome]

it didn't fail to pass the AP check because it didn't get to the AP check. it died during the apploader portion before getting to the AP

you are correct that it didn't launch the game. this is not due to the AP though, it's due to the apploader dying.

Curiously, I just installed Devolution r104 and Rogue Leader loaded up without flashing twice for disc verification. What is odd about this is that the existing .DVV file was empty. Apparently it did somehow pass disc verification previously (five flashes)... yet created an empty .DVV... and the game still loaded as if the disc was already verified.

So... did it actually not make it to the AP check before??? The above seems to indicate that it did in fact pass the disc check, but did not visibly store the result in the .DVV... yet the program somehow "knew"....

 

[Maxternal]

What would be stopping anyone from verifying one game and then copying that dvv with gameIDs edited to match all their pirated isos?

the ID in the beginning is easily changable without triggering this useless fragility (hex editor)
I assume it will not work
because I would depend the encrypted part on all three factors Wii(serial or key), HDD (serial) and game(id)

Yeah, I'd assume the encrypted part contains the GameID as well. The first part would just be for easy access so it can look through several DVV files for the right GameID without having to deal with the encrypted part for each one.
If it were just the case of changing that with a hex editor, the time stamps are easy enough to hack to make it think the file hasn't been touched. There are programs that will do that for you. That would be too easy. I'd say the whole "fragile" part is just a deterrent to make it more difficult for people to play around with the files and see how they work.

Actually, though, since he had been talking about the idea of having the loader deal with the file system and just devolution just dealing with the sectors directly (in which case he wouldn't have access to the time stamps) there's probably something much more subtle that makes them so fragile. One way or another, not something that I have time to fiddle with.

 

[PsyBlade]

there's probably something much more subtle that makes them so fragile. One way or another, not something that I have time to fiddle with.

Yes there is.
I know exactly what makes them fragile (besides changing the content).
What I want to know is why they were made that way.

With decent encryption there should be no need to deter anyone from fidling with the files.
And everyone good enough to have a shot at even a bad encryption (which does not include me) could just cicumvent that crap.
Its just normal day to day handling of the drive thats hampered by it.

 

[JoostinOnline]

it didn't fail to pass the AP check because it didn't get to the AP check. it died during the apploader portion before getting to the AP

you are correct that it didn't launch the game. this is not due to the AP though, it's due to the apploader dying.

Curiously, I just installed Devolution r104 and Rogue Leader loaded up without flashing twice for disc verification. What is odd about this is that the existing .DVV file was empty. Apparently it did somehow pass disc verification previously (five flashes)... yet created an empty .DVV... and the game still loaded as if the disc was already verified.

So... did it actually not make it to the AP check before??? The above seems to indicate that it did in fact pass the disc check, but did not visibly store the result in the .DVV... yet the program somehow "knew"....

Is it still empty?

 

[Maxternal]

Hmm, if it IS still empty, I wonder if changing or even just re-saving it with the same content would still result in a re-verify. I understand that renaming or moving it to another place in the same partition and then putting it back doesn't. I kinda doubt it, though, that would be a pretty big hole in the AP. (I also kinda even doubt that it really is still empty, to be honest.)

 

[Shano56]

I don't see why copying the file somewhere else and back is something bad.
Its already bound to the wii (afaik).
and binding it to the hdd can be done more easily and reliably using eg its serial.

Has anyone tried verifying a disc on one wii, and using the same hard drive try playing it on a different wii?

 

[Maxternal]

I don't see why copying the file somewhere else and back is something bad.
Its already bound to the wii (afaik).
and binding it to the hdd can be done more easily and reliably using eg its serial.

Has anyone tried verifying a disc on one wii, and using the same hard drive try playing it on a different wii?

Yeah, someone back on the main thread complained about it not working. No one's reported trying it with the same HDD and the same emuNAND as well but I kinda think that wouldn't work either.

 

[wiismodrome]

Is it still empty?

Nope.... normal game ID plus hash, now.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Is it still empty?

Nope.... normal game ID plus hash, now.

Then your theory is wrong.

 

[the_randomizer]

I don't think the AP protection will ever be cracked at this rate.

 

[JoostinOnline]

I don't think the AP protection will ever be cracked at this rate.

I never understood why you thought it would be. Riivolution still hasn't been cracked.

 

[chyyran]

It may seem like a bad idea to some people (like me) who have very little ways of obtaining legit GameCube discs, but its all up to tuedj's preference, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He spent many months coding it, he can do whatever the hell he wants with it. If you don't agree with this, the source code is availible, so if you really don't want to use DML/DM, you can tinker with Devolution's source, though I doubt you can remove it

 

[JoostinOnline]

It may seem like a bad idea to some people (like me) who have very little ways of obtaining legit GameCube discs, but its all up to tuedj's preference, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He spent many months coding it, he can do whatever the hell he wants with it. If you don't agree with this, the source code is availible, so if you really don't want to use DML/DM, you can tinker with Devolution's source, though I doubt you can remove it

The source to the actual game loader isn't available, just the UI.