Homebrew Why is a payload still required for HBL?

[MRJPGames]

First of all, both HBL and the *hax payload ARE open source. There is however a reason that what you wan't isn't done. It would quite simply not work. The way 3DSX files are launched is through the HB service, a custom service that is can (at least currently) only be enabled by the payload which also does a application take over.

TL;DR what you want is not possible, just live with the 4 sec's of loading.

edit: payloads are open source, not necisarrily latest version, but the version that is is all that would be needed to launch hb service etc, if old exploits are reenabled which of course could be done with cfw, and as such are sufficient for what you want. (also showing that no developer sees the point in this otherwhise it would be in development at the very least)

Thanks for the reply, but it makes PERFECT sense. I'm talking about a9lh and b9s. For those who install it, why the need for any *hax at all? Why does nobody understand this question? Once you have a9lh or b9s you shouldn't need ANY *hax or ANY separate payload. It should just be able to work like any other program/game.

It just doesn't work that way. If you want to run .3dsx you will need the payload there is no way around that fact.
And the last sentence makes me think you want it to appear on home menu, not only would this require serious modding of the home menu to read the 3dsx, to launch them it would still run the payload, it would basically be a forwarder, really there is no point in that. Also you can just convert to .cia, if there isn't a cia release already. Again I don't think most of us don't understand the question, what we don't understand is the point.

 

[HugaTheFox]

As far as I can tell, HBL isn't open source (nor the payloads). But... are there really no devs among the CFW creators capable of making their own?

This has been bugging me since a9lh, but now it's REALLY bugging me with b9s. We should already have all permissions required of the HBL, so why the need for a payload at all? There should be a stand-alone .cia that can launch directly from the home menu, and I'm not talking about hblauncher_loader (which STILL requires a payload for launching HBL).

It requires a payload because the fact that the version of an exploit is different for different system ver. Payloads are open source (on some).

 

[OblivionReign]

payloads have to be updated when the system is updated. O3DS already has issues with it (to the point that you need to trick the system by using the 11.2 payload and renaming it to look like it's an 11.4 payload).

I said, launch from the home menu, so of course the full OS is running. Duh. And with sigchecks patched via CFW or whatever method, there should be no reason that any other payload is needed.

Also btw homebrew launcher is open source... For your own fair use..

 

[urherenow]

what we don't understand is the point.

Why do you need to take over an application? We have full control even before the FW boots.

A new/additional service is required? Thanks. That is the info I was looking for. Sounds like something that could be spliced into Luma or the like.

This thread has no relationship to a 4s loading time whatsoever. We already have hblauncher_loader for that, it takes no more time than ninjhax or whatever, but it still needs a payload. I can simply download every payload there is for every model, region, and firmware version. I want a BETTER way than that.

 

[MRJPGames]

Why do you need to take over an application? We have full control even before the FW boots.

A new/additional service is required? Thanks. That is the info I was looking for. Sounds like something that could be spliced into Luma or the like.

This thread has no relationship to a 4s loading time whatsoever. We already have hblauncher_loader for that, it takes no more time than ninjhax or whatever, but it still needs a payload. I can simply download every payload there is for every model, region, and firmware version. I want a BETTER way than that.

1. To get access to the services the homebrew want, this is not needed with CFW, but this is needed so it's compatible on both CFW and OFW, and there is really no down side to it.
2. Yes the HB service is needed, good luck implementing that XD
3. Good luck developing that then

 

[Slartibartfast42]

has anyone tried running the homebrew launcher on 11.4 n3ds cfw without a payload? my system automatically is downloading it during HBL boot and putting it into my hblauncher folder. I didn't even know this was a thing till now, it doesn't name it otherapp.bin either?

automatic payload download is still a payload. This is broken on o3ds anyways. On 11.4, you must use the 11.2 payload renamed for some reason.

 

[Yami_Industries]

How do you get homebrew loader working with 11.4?

get cubic ninja from gamestop used for 19.99 from their website... its the only way to run homebrew unless the option of using LOZOT with powersaves isn't an option anymore??

 

[Drakia]

Why do you need to take over an application? We have full control even before the FW boots.

A new/additional service is required? Thanks. That is the info I was looking for. Sounds like something that could be spliced into Luma or the like.

This thread has no relationship to a 4s loading time whatsoever. We already have hblauncher_loader for that, it takes no more time than ninjhax or whatever, but it still needs a payload. I can simply download every payload there is for every model, region, and firmware version. I want a BETTER way than that.

Is there some specific homebrew you are trying to run? Most homebrew these days is built as both a CIA and a 3dsx, to support people running it via CFW (.cia) and via OFW w/ *hax (.3dsx).
The *hax-based homebrew (.3dsx) was never designed to run directly from the 3ds home menu, you'd have no way to show/load it anyways without something like HBL in between.

Trying to re-implement all of the required backend stuff to run .3dsx directly would be a complete waste of time when CIAs can be created for pretty much any homebrew that is available as .3dsx.

 

[Slartibartfast42]

get cubic ninja from gamestop used for 19.99 from their website... its the only way to run homebrew unless the option of using LOZOT with powersaves isn't an option anymore??

I did not need that at all. It turns out you just need to rename the 11.2 payload to 11.4. I deleted my 11.2 payload but just downloaded it again.

 

[Yami_Industries]

I did not need that at all. It turns out you just need to rename the 11.2 payload to 11.4. I deleted my 11.2 payload but just downloaded it again.

silly me and I thought you were just another person who was asking about homebrew on 11.4 virgin nand...

 

[Slartibartfast42]

silly me and I thought you were just another person who was asking about homebrew on 11.4 virgin nand...

Ha no, I am not a n00b. I remember way back when gbatemp was a pro-piracy forum. I mean look my joined on date is 2013. I actually joined back when WiiNewz disappeared, so back in 2008. Maybe I only lurked then or used a different account name.

 

[Drakia]

Ha no, I am not a n00b. I remember way back when gbatemp was a pro-piracy forum. I mean look my joined on date is 2013.

Lol

 

[urherenow]

Is there some specific homebrew you are trying to run? Most homebrew these days is built as both a CIA and a 3dsx, to support people running it via CFW (.cia) and via OFW w/ *hax (.3dsx).
The *hax-based homebrew (.3dsx) was never designed to run directly from the 3ds home menu, you'd have no way to show/load it anyways without something like HBL in between.

Trying to re-implement all of the required backend stuff to run .3dsx directly would be a complete waste of time when CIAs can be created for pretty much any homebrew that is available as .3dsx.

nothing particular. I just want to be able to do EVERYTHING. Not everything works when converted to .cia. I'm not asking to load .3dsx files directly; I want to be able to load HBL directly from home menu, without the need for *hax. I'm saying that HBL should simply work, like FBI just works, no matter the firmware version, as long as the system has svc access. There's nothing more frustrating than updates happening when I have no internet access for personal things, so the need for payload updates simply sucks.

and by everything, I have :o3ds, N3ds, both hard modded, Cubic Ninja cart, Sky3ds+, OOT, Ironfall, Smile Basic /w petit modem, legit DSI stuff, all ambassador games, Gateway, a few different DS flashcarts including DSTwo and DSTwo+, etc... even though none of that is really necessary. I'm the type who loves to hack stuff for friends/acquaintances .

 

[Drakia]

nothing particular. I just want to be able to do EVERYTHING. Not everything works when converted to .cia.

Then the developer should release it as a CIA alongside the 3dsx, that's a failure on the devs part if they don't. I'm not talking about converting a 3dsx to CIA yourself.

As it is, CIA is the way to go for CFW support, you should really never HAVE to run a 3dsx. But as others have said, HBL and the *hax payloads are open source, it's a complete waste of time for someone with the talent to actually do it to make them run without a firmware-specific *hax payload, but feel free to give it a go if you want:
https://github.com/smealum/ninjhax2.x
https://github.com/smealum/3ds_hb_menu

 

[Yami_Industries]

what if we could use luma to load the boot.3dsx on startup?? that would be awesome!!

 

[The Real Jdbye]

nothing particular. I just want to be able to do EVERYTHING. Not everything works when converted to .cia. I'm not asking to load .3dsx files directly; I want to be able to load HBL directly from home menu, without the need for *hax. I'm saying that HBL should simply work, like FBI just works, no matter the firmware version, as long as the system has svc access. There's nothing more frustrating than updates happening when I have no internet access for personal things, so the need for payload updates simply sucks.

and by everything, I have :o3ds, N3ds, both hard modded, Cubic Ninja cart, Sky3ds+, OOT, Ironfall, Smile Basic /w petit modem, legit DSI stuff, all ambassador games, Gateway, a few different DS flashcarts including DSTwo and DSTwo+, etc... even though none of that is really necessary. I'm the type who loves to hack stuff for friends/acquaintances .

You're right. It doesn't necessarily require a payload. All the permissions needed can be granted by a .cia exheader. But there are some missing pieces of the puzzle, that would require integrating part of HBL into CFW itself. It's completely doable, there just hasn't been interest in it because hblauncher_loader works very well and there isn't really a need for anything more.

The *hax-based homebrew (.3dsx) was never designed to run directly from the 3ds home menu, you'd have no way to show/load it anyways without something like HBL in between.

This is actually incorrect. The .3dsx format was designed from the ground up to be universal so that it could easily be loaded from any entry point, and even converted to other formats, such as .cia (although only recently did people realize a tool exists to convert .3dsx to .cia, it seems to have existed for a while but gone by unnoticed).
The problem is that certain things with HBL changed since then and apps ended up relying on certain features that only *hax provides. Back in Ninjhax 1.x this wasn't such a problem. The HB service didn't exist, nor did HBL itself grant any special permissions. Apps only had access to very basic permissions, but that ensured compatibility across all systems and setups.

 

[Cuphat]

It would probably be doable without a payload, it'd just require someone to care enough to devote a lot of resources to something that's not really a problem. CIA homebrew is more convenient and the hblauncher CIA works just fine for anything that is a 3dsx.

 

[nl255]

omeone has already done it. Thanks to the Rosalina module in Luma 8.0 you don't need payloads anymore, just hbmenu 2.0 and the hbl loader cia and even the hbl cia is optional as you can make it so any installed title runs boot.3dsx.

 

[urherenow]

Yup. I've been vindicated. I obviously wasn't the only one thinking this and thankfully DEVs who know what they're doing were/are among them

Mods, feel free to lock the thread. It's useless now.