Hacking Why I quit using Darkcorp

[s3phir0th115]

So, I like many users that like backups, I liked having disc channel loading. I never encountered issues using the cIOS for so many games, so I didn't pay much mind to Team Twiizer's members a lot when they said they had incompatibity issues for their software using it. As it turns out, it extends beyond just their software.

I recently ran the WiiMC Channel Installer, and it ran on IOS58, one of the IOS's it patched. Things didn't work as they should have. It complained about not being able to access the nand. So, I decided to install a clean IOS58. Then, it worked fine.

It got me to thinking. With things like Xflak's autoboot mod to neogamma (which I hope is updated for R9 soon. Hint hint.

), a forwarder channel for it, and the ability to place it where the disc channel is usually, what real need do we actually have for Darkcorp? I mean if it's causing issues in homebrew now.....

I intend this to be a healthy discussion, and I'm not at all against people pirating or anything. I'm just now viewing Darkcorp as causing way more compatibility issues than it may be worth having, just for disc channel loading.

What do you think?

 

[luminalace]

I know how much dissing goes on about DarkCorp here at gba temp but personally I have been using Cios/darkcorp for ages and have never had any problems. It's true with USB loaders and the always faithfull Neo Gamma I don't have much need for it anymore but I like when I get a new backup on disk which works from the disk channel and it certainly makes it easier on my GF/ friends who aren't as upto scratch on why things don't work through disk channel.

Eventually DarkCorp may go the way of the dodo but at this time I am keeping it.

 

[FenrirWolf]

IMO the hard-on people have for loading DVD games in the disc channel is silly. Not worth replacing the majority of IOS's on the Wii for, anyway.

 

[purkinje]

I also came to similar conclusions, although this happened to me shortly after the release of USBloaders. At first, I used cIOScorp because it was easy and I didn't know any better. However, after reading some of Bushing's comments on cIOScorp on GBAtemp and other places, I realized that there were a lot of cons to having cIOScorp installed and very few pros. Currently, I only have clean nintendo IOSes installed (other than the hermes/wanin cIOSes).

At this point, there really is no need for darkcorp. If you want the look and feel of playing games from the disc channel and seeing the banners of games etc. all you need to do is use SNEEK. With a combination of conventional usbloaders and SNEEK, you can play almost every game from USB. The few that need discs can be played with neogamma.

 

[nl255]

I also came to similar conclusions, although this happened to me shortly after the release of USBloaders. At first, I used cIOScorp because it was easy and I didn't know any better. However, after reading some of Bushing's comments on cIOScorp on GBAtemp and other places, I realized that there were a lot of cons to having cIOScorp installed and very few pros. Currently, I only have clean nintendo IOSes installed (other than the hermes/wanin cIOSes).

At this point, there really is no need for darkcorp. If you want the look and feel of playing games from the disc channel and seeing the banners of games etc. all you need to do is use SNEEK. With a combination of conventional usbloaders and SNEEK, you can play almost every game from USB. The few that need discs can be played with neogamma.

If you want custom channels (only on SD?) then you need a hacked system menu IOS. The only hacked IOSes I have on my system are IOS45 (IOS36 with all patches and highest version via MMM/Dop-Mii), IOS60/70 (both taken from cIOScorp as darkcorp doesn't let you install individual hacked IOSes), and the usual hermes/wanin stuff above 200. If I want to bother with disc loading at all I will just use a neogamma channel.

 

[XFlak]

I think darkcorp/cioscorp is, and always has been, a specialized solution for a particular kind of user

I think darkcorp is intended for the backup disc user (or lets be realistic... the pirate) who likes to keep things simple.

I know many people with kids who would be overwhelmed with all the HBC and usb-loader functions and settings... (honestly, trying to explain to some1 ALL that I know about homebrew... it could take weeks! lol)

Darkcorp is a solution for the simple minded user, to simply insert a disc as if it were an original, and start the disc channel. For those users, there is nothing better than darkcorp.

now for the other 95% of users... why even bother with any kind of disc loading? The only reason used to be to play IOS reloading games... but now with UNEEK+DI, we don't need a disc to play those either! So basically, USB-Loading kicks ass, disc loading sucks in comparison (only really useful for GC games)

But, I will say this in support of darkcorp... it is very easy to remove. Either using NUSAD or the darkcorp (un)installer. And I'm sure it must've happened once or twice... but I've never heard of anyone bricking over a darkcorp installation.

Basically, I personally will never use darkcorp, but I can see why certain people (who like to keep things simple) would prefer it over any other form of backup loading.

edit: I guess I am kinda neutral on the subject. I would never recommend it to anyone, not unless they specifically asked to play backup discs via the disc channel

If you want custom channels (only on SD?) then you need a hacked system menu IOS. The only hacked IOSes I have on my system are IOS45 (IOS36 with all patches and highest version via MMM/Dop-Mii), IOS60/70 (both taken from cIOScorp as darkcorp doesn't let you install individual hacked IOSes), and the usual hermes/wanin stuff above 200. If I want to bother with disc loading at all I will just use a neogamma channel.

actually u can VERY easily modify the config file for the darkcorp installer to install as many or as little of darkcorp as u want... don't go changing a bunch of stuff cuz its dangerous, but if u are smart, once u open it up, its fairly obvious that if u delete the entire line referring to a specific IOS, it will not be installed along with the rest of darkcorp.

 

[nl255]

I know how much dissing goes on about DarkCorp here at gba temp but personally I have been using Cios/darkcorp for ages and have never had any problems. It's true with USB loaders and the always faithfull Neo Gamma I don't have much need for it anymore but I like when I get a new backup on disk which works from the disk channel and it certainly makes it easier on my GF/ friends who aren't as upto scratch on why things don't work through disk channel.

Eventually DarkCorp may go the way of the dodo but at this time I am keeping it.

Well, apparently the new (not yet released) Priiloader installer that uses HW_AHBPROT will cause a brick if run under DarkCorp. My guess is the final release will require your HBC IOS (either 38 or 61) to be clean to run at all due to all the problems DarkCorp is causing him.

 

[bugaveli]

IMO the hard-on people have for loading DVD games in the disc channel is silly. Not worth replacing the majority of IOS's on the Wii for, anyway.

+1 Not worth it at all

 

[Thomas83Lin]

I'm neutral when it comes to darkcorp, but if people are having problems with it why not report your bugs to the darkcorp thread.

http://gbatemp.net/t238779-darkcorp-v1-1-release

 

[bwillb]

IMO the hard-on people have for loading DVD games in the disc channel is silly. Not worth replacing the majority of IOS's on the Wii for, anyway.

+1 Not worth it at all

+2 way too many added possible failure points for little to no return.

 

[ChokeD]

I'm neutral, At 1 time I seen a need for it because I knew nothing and to start off with cIOSCorp lit me up like saturday morning cartoons baby !!! It sparked interest, a whole lot of interest.

Now that I know what I know and I am smart enough to maneuver on my own, I made my DARKCORP Wii my test vehicle (which doesn't even have DARKCORP on it at the moment) and I have a virgin 4.3 with nothing on it, it plays retails and I have 2 others I bought that were banner bricked off ebay for 200 bones. They aren't virgin but fairly close, stuff like a simple fs36 and 249 special.

As for me at this moment, I would really like to see this AHBPROT flag do something for us. Might prove to interesting with arguments involved and all. I'm looking to learn a few new things like back in the day when I was learning A LOT everyday from the Wii scene.

There I go again, I'm starting to feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[thesund0g]

IMO the hard-on people have for loading DVD games in the disc channel is silly. Not worth replacing the majority of IOS's on the Wii for, anyway.

+1 Not worth it at all

+2 way too many added possible failure points for little to no return.

Largely agree with you guys and xflak. I would never recommend it, but there are enough people that are intimidated by all the custom stuff, that's the only way they'll end up using it any. Personally, if you want disc loading, I'd rather use an autoboot forwarder-type setup. I have one which I use for games I don't play frequently enough to keep on the HDD.

The thing that bothers me is that it kinda defeats the purpose of the structure of the Wii's IOSes. The whole idea is that you can keep behaviors of software consistent while introducing new features and radical improvements as a different IOS. When a program is using IOS 9 to do it's thang, it can make a lot of assumptions as to how it's going to respond to commands. When, instead of 9, it's really talking to 60 in disguise with a bunch of patches tacked on, all kinds of random fail can happen. This is probably the biggest reason why homebrew devs, esp. TT, dislike it. This is also probably why Daco's magical fourth brick happened -- the installer probably counted on something specific to the IOS # used and got a mouthful instead.

There's got to be a better way to fingerprint the components or otherwise probe the behavior to verify you're working with a good, clean IOS. But I don't think it's necessary to ban a patch (i.e. Trucha) if it's not really going to affect the stability of the environment directly, just a bright red warning that you have to click-through should suffice.

 

[Remfin]

There's got to be a better way to fingerprint the components or otherwise probe the behavior to verify you're working with a good, clean IOS. But I don't think it's necessary to ban a patch (i.e. Trucha) if it's not really going to affect the stability of the environment directly, just a bright red warning that you have to click-through should suffice.

The problem is the author is going out of his way to make sure you can't tell you aren't working with a verified good, clean IOS. They don't want their users to see a bright red warning, just like they don't want their users to have to swap to a clean IOS for all of 5 minutes, regardless of the damage it could do to them.

 

[thesund0g]

There's got to be a better way to fingerprint the components or otherwise probe the behavior to verify you're working with a good, clean IOS. But I don't think it's necessary to ban a patch (i.e. Trucha) if it's not really going to affect the stability of the environment directly, just a bright red warning that you have to click-through should suffice.

The problem is the author is going out of his way to make sure you can't tell you aren't working with a verified good, clean IOS. They don't want their users to see a bright red warning, just like they don't want their users to have to swap to a clean IOS for all of 5 minutes, regardless of the damage it could do to them.

Maybe they could "unpatch" it on the fly. Not that anyone'd be inclined to do so.

 

[dmonkey21]

I agree with you that DARKCORP CAN be bad for some users, but I definitely don't agree with Team Twiizer's stance against it. DARKCORP might cause problems in some instances, but it is not some horrible, system-destroying virus for your Wii lol. DARKCORP installs modified versions of almost all IOS's, which is obviously dangerous IF you don't fully understand your Wii. If, on the other hand, you truly understand what is being installed on your Wii by DARKCORP, there shouldn't be an issue. Like the OP said, if you know what you are doing it is fairly simple to delete a DARKCORP IOS and replace it with an official one. Finally, the current DARKCORP installer is pretty well designed and easily allows users to revert back to the original IOS's.

EDIT: In regards to DARKCORP's functionality, the only thing I really use it fort is GC Multi-Game Discs. However, as XFlak pointed out it is a nice, simple option for some people who don't really feel the need to delve too deep into the Wii hacking scene. Also, not everybody has an external HDD drive or a large SDHC card. To be honest, if I hadn't had a USB hard drive when USBLoader came out, I probably could have stuck with DVD booting too.

 

[Taleweaver]

I can't add much that hasn't already been said. I do, however, want to point out that cios- and darkcorp's simplicity is both a blessing and a curse. The thing is like a silver bullet: install it, and you'll never have to worry about backup discs not working. It's ideal for users who don't want to get technical and just be able to play backups (okay, okay: who downright want to pirate any wii game on the internet).

The downside: exactly by providing this service, it allows a lot of users to remain blissfully ignorant. Why should they worry about what the program does when the end result is simply that their wii accepts backup DVD's?


Of course things aren't that simple. I bet that if you don't mess with anything, the wii will continue to work just fine for years. The problem with that is that those users are going to see that as "normal". Either because they didn't read darkcorp's readme file or because they forgot about it.
Meanwhile, team twiizers is busy testing new HBC versions to make sure they are bug-free. But they make the right complaint: why should they cater to darkcorp users? darkcorp has changed the interior of the wii so much that things simply aren't that easy to predict. Nonetheless...those users still kinda expect that it will work because it says "wii" on their console.
It's kinda like buying a windows computer, formatting it, putting linux on it, and then complaining that some windows application won't work on it.


The irony is perhaps that just because there are two camps (cioscorp on one hand, and the "legitimate" homebrew on the other), people will know about it. The same here: I remember downloading cioscorp back when I started out...I figured that it was something I needed because everyone was talking about it. It was only by reading the readme carefully that I started to understand that I didn't need it for USB loading.

 

[LocoRoco]

disc loading is old why use it when there is usb loading.....dont know which is worse installing it or uninstalling it(leaving you with rev7 ios and stupid korean ios the only way to remove right/easy is with dop-mii)

Get priiloader to boot in your loader on power up...even a 1 year old can point and press A on the picture....(parental lock)

 

[wes11ph]

i'm only using cios/darkcorp for test purposes only... nothing more..
IMO ianyone who wants it? use it!, you don't like it? just don't... just don't take it personaly..

 

[Taleweaver]

IMO ianyone who wants it? use it!, you don't like it? just don't... just don't take it personaly..

Errm...no. What I read in Marcan's posts (while speaking for TT) isn't so much that he's pissed because darkcorp exists, or even what it all does, but because it interferes with a program they wrote. The HBC is tested, checked and tested even more before it is released to the audience.

Then it bricks a wii. Or, seeing from the wii's owner's perspective: THE HOMEBREW CHANNEL BRICKED MY WII!!!!!1!!1111one


It's incorrect, of course. Just as darkcorp, by itself, didn't brick the wii. What actually bricked the wii was some clash between the two programs. And probably some outdated/badly patched/stubbed/region changed IOS'es. In other words: the end user is wrong*.
That doesn't change the fact that the reputation of the HBC is still jeopardized. And I can fully understand how authors of carefully tested software take these false accusations very, very personal.






*I'm a helpdesk agent. don't get me started about the average "intelligence" of the end user.

 

[VashTS]

i thought i was one of a few that was not a fan of darkcorp. even as a noob i knew that installing all those ios's was a bad idea. it sounds cool but the options are there for replacement and the replacements are actually better.

however if someone wants a softmod that cannot be seen, darkcorp is the way to go. if someone asked me to hack their wii and they needed no evidence, and they were only using it for loading games (discs, wiiware and vc titles) then darkcorp it would be. for people who mess with stuff like me i would never install darkcorp on my wii. its not bad, just not for me.