Who was better

[Toni Plutonij]

Sorry, I expressed badly......

It was supposed to sound like this:
There is a possibility that they will CGI him, or try to animate him from recorded material, just so they could end the Joker chapter (now when Ledger died), but I don't think it would be fair to Ledger and his memory..

(I don't know if you're aware, but filming industry isn't that soft hearted..If you remember the movie Romeo must die, that was the last movie that pop star Aalyiah was acting, and she died during the filming of the movie, and although she was dead, they managed to end the movie like she acted all the way)..

I was just stating that there is a possibility that thay could do that..not that they should!!

 

[xcalibur]

I disagree on so many levels..
First, I would say (as I already said), it's a matter of someones personal liking..Both were great Jokers..

But some of your facts aren't holding at all!!

First of all, the guy's a crazy psycho. Nicholson was more a cheerful joker which doesn't work quite well for the boss of a big gang. Heath just oozed in power and it totally made sense why all those goons were following him but nicholson just popped them out of thin air.
Both were psychos....Ledger did it in a dark kind of way, Nicholson on a cheerful kind of way..If you forgot the first Batman, watch it again, you'll see that Nicholson had his "psycho" moments too!
Heath actually got his "goons" out of thin air also! Those guys from the beginning of the movie worked for Joker, but never met him, I don't see where's the good explanation why would they work for him, plus, he was a "one guy team", for the rest of the movie he didn't have his people, but there were always few guy following him, with no explanation why!! But with Nicholson, you had the explanation, he was a former gangster with connection, he killed his boss and "kept the people"..


He was doing a bank heist with a massive score. Any thug would follow him considering the reward. It was only 5 guys which isn't that hard to gather. ALso, later on in the film he demanded from all the mob bosses that their people work for him now. Thats where he got his goons from later on. But I dislike Nicholsons back story since he's just a gangster while the joker used to be a chemist named jack in the comics. His origins were never made official but they took this as the next best thing. If he was a chemist, it could explain where he got the laughing gas poinson from. But a gangster kidnapping scientists? Thats just cliche.

QUOTE

Secondly, Heath is much closer to the comic book version seeing as the joker is in fact a attention-seeking psycho. The way he kept licking his lips, how he kept changing the story of how he got his scars, the way he got unbelievably scary when his hostage refused to look at him.

Actually, if you ever read the comic, you would see that Nicholson was much closer to the part..Do you remember what was the main goal of Nicholson Joker? Poison laughing gas for the whole city!! Nicholson wasn't actually trying to scare people, if you're a Joker, that's what you do, joke..not fear..Nicholson didn't took hostages and spread the fear, his main point is to make people like him (on behalf of their stupidity and greed), and to best the Batman!

All heath was trying to do in the dark knight was make prove that even the best of them could fall, including the batman. He also explained to dent that he was someone who takes planners, and puts their plans upside down. Also, even though the joker may not be physical, he is always agile. I couldn't see nicholson dodge a punch if it came from an obese baby. And even though the Joker is a joker (which ledger didn't do enough of) he's also a crazed psycho with serious delusions. Nicholson seemed to be having a fun time while ledger seemed mentally unstable. THAT I believe is the real joker. Also, in the killing joke, joker is a lot like heath.

 

[xcalibur]

And lets not forget the nurse outfit now shall we.Nicholson focused more on the crazy/funny joker and missed out some stuff. I also liked how heaths "joker" didn't have his origins explained.
I really don't see anything that Nicholson missed, he did very balanced character..But he was never brutal as Heath, it's true..but Joker isn't meant to be on a physical side at all..


I guess I have to rethink that. But I found that a crazy psycho clown works better than a crazy clown. I mean, heath was actually scary in the film and I could see why anyone who made the mistake of joining him would be too scared to leave. Nicholson would probably squirt him with water or something. I don't see how he could keep his goons under control.

His setup also looked cooler. Nicholson looked weird in his clothes but heath looked totally in place. Nicholson also got a bit pathetic towards the end of the film while heath kept all his dignity. Also, heath could totally take on the batman one on one while nicholson lost poorly.
Actually, again, no! Nicholson was always dignified, neat, clean..Ledger was dirty, messed up, unwashed hair..(they were total opposite to each other, now it's just matter how do you imagine a Joker when you think of one)
Nicholson didn't became pathetic at all, actually, after taking out the BatPlane (whatever is it called), he climbed that tower and danced!! He laughed all the time he was beaten (even managed to punc Batman few times), and he even made that teeth joke! While Ledger only took beatings in a prison..he never took one on one with Batman?!?!


I'm pretty sure the fight at the very end counts as a one-on-one where he let the dogs go on him and then kept beating batman and eventually got him pinned down. ALso, I'm pretty sure I remember them bickering in the first film about who created who at the end and nicholson was begging for his life.


Posts merged


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And lastly, nicholson loses points for appearing without makup.

This is the fact where you messed up the worst..
Nicholson never appeared without makeup (in a way you mean) because his face was clown-a-like after the surgery!! The white face with the red lips IS HIS REAL FACE, he had to wear makeup to hide it when he was going into public..Watch the movie again, you'll see..He was using a powder (in a skin tone) to appear normal..
Bur Ledger did appear in the movie without the makeup!! The scene where major had that speech, Ledger was dressed like a soldier, he tried to kill him, you can see Heaths face for a short time, and he's not wearing any make up!!

That wasn't heath. It was a goon of his who tried to kill the mayor. He gets taken away by Dent who tries to intimidate him for an answer. The batman then tells him that he's a mental patient from Arkham.
I also need to watch the first one again. I can't believe I got the thing about jokers skin wrong.


Besides, there are many sides to the joker anyway. Both interpretations are completely valid since there are many sides to the joker in the comics.
And seeing as the films aren't related, I think its perfectly fine.
en away by Dent who tries to intimidate him for an answer. The batman then tells him that he's a mental patient from Arkham.
I also need to watch the first one again. I can't believe I got the thing about jokers skin wrong.


Besides, there are many sides to the joker anyway. Both interpretations are completely valid since there are many sides to the joker in the comics.
And seeing as the films aren't related, I think its perfectly fine.

 

[Jackreyes]

Its close for me...
So I'll say Jack Nicholson because he shares my first name...

 

[Toni Plutonij]

And lastly, nicholson loses points for appearing without makup.

This is the fact where you messed up the worst..
Nicholson never appeared without makeup (in a way you mean) because his face was clown-a-like after the surgery!! The white face with the red lips IS HIS REAL FACE, he had to wear makeup to hide it when he was going into public..Watch the movie again, you'll see..He was using a powder (in a skin tone) to appear normal..
Bur Ledger did appear in the movie without the makeup!! The scene where major had that speech, Ledger was dressed like a soldier, he tried to kill him, you can see Heaths face for a short time, and he's not wearing any make up!!

That wasn't heath. It was a goon of his who tried to kill the mayor. He gets taken away by Dent who tries to intimidate him for an answer. The batman then tells him that he's a mental patient from Arkham.
I also need to watch the first one again. I can't believe I got the thing about jokers skin wrong.


Besides, there are many sides to the joker anyway. Both interpretations are completely valid since there are many sides to the joker in the comics.
And seeing as the films aren't related, I think its perfectly fine.

Actually yeah..You got some really good points there, I give you that..
I remembered the fight between Batman and Joker, I completely forgot about that, so sorry, you were right about that too..
Actually, I think we both made some good points, and we could both agree that movies are great and fantastic, and it's just matter of personal preference between Nicholson and Ledger, I think they both made the best there is, but in a different way..

The only thing I would disagree strongly is that makeup thing..

It was Ledger with his goon who tried to kill the major!! The goon was taken by Dent, and Joker got away..
Here, look better:

The goon didn't have any scars, the only one with those scars was Ledger (and, also this is the only picture from the whole movie, where you could realize that this is a Heath Ledger, he really acted the part of his life!)

 

[xcalibur]

And lastly, nicholson loses points for appearing without makup.

This is the fact where you messed up the worst..
Nicholson never appeared without makeup (in a way you mean) because his face was clown-a-like after the surgery!! The white face with the red lips IS HIS REAL FACE, he had to wear makeup to hide it when he was going into public..Watch the movie again, you'll see..He was using a powder (in a skin tone) to appear normal..
Bur Ledger did appear in the movie without the makeup!! The scene where major had that speech, Ledger was dressed like a soldier, he tried to kill him, you can see Heaths face for a short time, and he's not wearing any make up!!

That wasn't heath. It was a goon of his who tried to kill the mayor. He gets taken away by Dent who tries to intimidate him for an answer. The batman then tells him that he's a mental patient from Arkham.
I also need to watch the first one again. I can't believe I got the thing about jokers skin wrong.


Besides, there are many sides to the joker anyway. Both interpretations are completely valid since there are many sides to the joker in the comics.
And seeing as the films aren't related, I think its perfectly fine.

Actually yeah..You got some really good points there, I give you that..
I remembered the fight between Batman and Joker, I completely forgot about that, so sorry, you were right about that too..
Actually, I think we both made some good points, and we could both agree that movies are great and fantastic, and it's just matter of personal preference between Nicholson and Ledger, I think they both made the best there is, but in a different way..

The only thing I would disagree strongly is that makeup thing..

It was Ledger with his goon who tried to kill the major!! The goon was taken by Dent, and Joker got away..
Here, look better:

The goon didn't have any scars, the only one with those scars was Ledger (and, also this is the only picture from the whole movie, where you could realize that this is a Heath Ledger, he really acted the part of his life!)

OMG I TOTALLY MISSED THAT

I'm totally buying the dvd when it comes out. These are always parts I miss in the cinema

I'm always a tad bit slow.

 

[Shabadage]

No fucking Hamill option!? Mask of the Phantasm was a theatrical release movie before you all start saying "OMG, he was only in the TV show, we're talking the MOVIES"

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Yeah, it's only about second or so..But I really remembered that scene because it's the only one without the makeup!
Look around his eyes, you'll see Ledger, but actually, it looks like he was twisting his face while doing Joker, because he's really different....

 

[Veho]

(I don't know if you're aware, but filming industry isn't that soft hearted..If you remember the movie Romeo must die, that was the last movie that pop star Aalyiah was acting, and she died during the filming of the movie, and although she was dead, they managed to end the movie like she acted all the way)..

Actually, no. Aaliyah died a few years after the movie was made.

Brandon Lee, on the other hand, died during the filming of The Crow, and they had to finish the movie without him, using CGI, body doubles and weird face-obscuring camera angles.

 

[Toni Plutonij]

(I don't know if you're aware, but filming industry isn't that soft hearted..If you remember the movie Romeo must die, that was the last movie that pop star Aalyiah was acting, and she died during the filming of the movie, and although she was dead, they managed to end the movie like she acted all the way)..

Actually, no. Aaliyah died a few years after the movie was made.

Brandon Lee, on the other hand, died during the filming of The Crow, and they had to finish the movie without him, using CGI, body doubles and weird face-obscuring camera angles.

Are you really sure, I've read it in few places that she died while filming (maybe it was some other movie?!)..
But, OK, I was just pointing that there is a possibility that they "bring Ledger back to life" for the sake of money, and completion of the chapter with the Joker!

Or maybe he'll be gone in the same way he appeared, from nothing..

 

[Veho]

Are you really sure, I've read it in few places that she died while filming (maybe it was some other movie?!)...
But, OK, I was just pointing that there is a possibility that they "bring Ledger back to life" for the sake of money, and completion of the chapter with the Joker!
I'm sure. After Romeo must die, she also starred in Queen of the damned (and survived that too (bit tasteless there, I know)). She died while shooting the music video for her single "Rock the boat", on some tropical island somewhere.

QUOTEOn August 25, 2001, just after finishing filming of the music video to "Rock the Boat", Aaliyah and various members of her record company boarded a twin engine Cessna at Marsh Harbour, Abaco Island, Bahamas. The crew had a flight scheduled the next day, but the video wrapped early. Aaliyah and her entourage were eager to return to the US and took their heavy equipment from the shoot on the plane rather than leave it behind which resulted in the aircraft being well beyond the standard weight and balance tolerance provided by Cesna.

The plane crashed shortly after takeoff about 200 feet from the runway.

Back on topic.

Yes, I agree that it's possible to replace an actor with CGI, and that it's been done before, but I think they'll just find another actor to play Joker rather than try to do a CGI one. Both would be herd to sell, both are really hit or miss with the movie audience, but I think that they'd be more likely to get away with a flesh and blood replacement instead of trying to recreate Ledger's performance.


That being said, I propose Johnny Depp as the replacement. The Sweeney Todd Johnny Depp, of course. Only without the singing.

Think about it.

 

[Westside]

I personally want Ben Afflek playing Joker, simply because he is sexy.

 

[jesuschristmonke]

Jack, because he didn't O.D. before getting an Oscar.

 

[xcalibur]

Are you really sure, I've read it in few places that she died while filming (maybe it was some other movie?!)...
But, OK, I was just pointing that there is a possibility that they "bring Ledger back to life" for the sake of money, and completion of the chapter with the Joker!
I'm sure. After Romeo must die, she also starred in Queen of the damned (and survived that too (bit tasteless there, I know)). She died while shooting the music video for her single "Rock the boat", on some tropical island somewhere.

QUOTEOn August 25, 2001, just after finishing filming of the music video to "Rock the Boat", Aaliyah and various members of her record company boarded a twin engine Cessna at Marsh Harbour, Abaco Island, Bahamas. The crew had a flight scheduled the next day, but the video wrapped early. Aaliyah and her entourage were eager to return to the US and took their heavy equipment from the shoot on the plane rather than leave it behind which resulted in the aircraft being well beyond the standard weight and balance tolerance provided by Cesna.

The plane crashed shortly after takeoff about 200 feet from the runway.

Back on topic.

Yes, I agree that it's possible to replace an actor with CGI, and that it's been done before, but I think they'll just find another actor to play Joker rather than try to do a CGI one. Both would be herd to sell, both are really hit or miss with the movie audience, but I think that they'd be more likely to get away with a flesh and blood replacement instead of trying to recreate Ledger's performance.


That being said, I propose Johnny Depp as the replacement. The Sweeney Todd Johnny Depp, of course. Only without the singing.

Think about it.

After seeing him do sweeney todd and captain jack black, He could probably pull off the joker. Though I'd expect him to be comical and not take him serious the entire film

 

[Toni Plutonij]

I actually think he would be better as The Riddler.......He could do amazing things with that character..

For the Joker replacement...I don't know....it's hard to tell of anyone who could repeat/continue the Ledgers masterpiece.......hmmmmm...

 

[wiidsguy]

Lets just let the joker die, after all he is in jail now, just wait for some new set of batman movies.

 

[littlestevie]

i agree with toni,

but i think he could pull the joker off, he played a seriously fucked up willy wonka in charlie and the chocolate factory

 

[xcalibur]

Jonny depp is amazing with eccentric characters but I don't think ledgers joker could ever be taken by someone else. Like toni said, perhaps he could do an amazing joke with the riddler and we could have a team-up of him and twoface.
The two of them could do the roles a lot more justice than tommy lee jones and a certain comedian I do not wish to name (HE IS DEAD TO ME

) ever could and perhaps we could get a batman film that isn't embarresing to watch this time around.
Val kilmers talent was wasted in that crappy film imo.

 

[wiidsguy]

Jim did a great job with the riddler, i dont think he can be toped, and i really like the tommy two face, its was very different then the dark night.