WEP vs. WPA - DSi networking

Discussion in 'NDS - Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection' started by questccg, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. questccg
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    questccg Member

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    Okay,

    So I am relatively *new* to the "Nintendo Scene". I had a DSi (thought it was a DS Lite) and came back to my portable game system - because of Homebrew interest.

    Really what I am looking to do is develop Homebrew games that can connect to the Internet! My interest is developping FREE games that work with *Micro Transactions* players may choose to use OR not.

    But I have to say, relying on WEP security for Internet Wi-Fi seems ARCHAIC!?

    I have read all about the CycloDS iEvolution and how it FAILED to use the *enhanced* DSi networking capabilities. It was supposed to run in DSi Mode which game 2x processor speeds and memory of 16mb. However the *best* cart to buy is the Supercard DSTwo... With it's own processor and GBA emulation and such... It does nothing to tap into the capabilities of the DSi (and probably 3DS).

    My problem is this: "I don't give a cr@p about emulation or it's custom CPU." I don't want to run illegal ROMS and game titles. I want to be able to develop Homebrew games that can access the Internet (as mentioned above).

    Has Nintendo thought through their WEP-only strategy for Wi-Fi??? I have only *seen* videos of how the Web Browser works on the DSi. It looks AMAZING. Smart idea and good execution (development). But it leads me to wonder WHY Nintendo expects people to use insecure WEP networking on their Wi-Fi networks to play multiplayer games???

    Am I the only one who thinks that WEP is insecure and WPA should be MANDATORY for future DSi games? Does this mean it is time to retire the old DS Light? Maybe not - but if you are planning to implement Internet capable games... Shouldn't you do something to allow Homebrew applications get access to the Internet via a SECURE encryption of WPA???

    Anyway please feel free to comment...
     


  2. Duo8

    Duo8 I don't like video games

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    That was like 2004.
    And you can use WPA(2) w/ DSi/3DS anyway.
     
  3. trumpet-205

    trumpet-205 Embrace the darkness within

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    DS is only capable of WEP, so naturally games were hardcoded with WEP only. So even though DSi added support for WPA and WPA2 games cannot utilize them because they were not coded for it. It would require Nintendo to recall every single DS cartridge should they want to add WPA on DS only portion.

    Honestly if you intend to profit from game development you should utilize PS Mobile or even Ouya instead. You can develop for free on those two platform. You might even get slapped with lawsuit from Nintendo.
     
  4. questccg
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    questccg Member

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    Well I understand that you can *use* WPA(2) with the DSi/3DS... But can you use it using carts for Homebrew application development???

    I am fairly *new* to the scene and have not read that current carts on the market such as the Supercard DSTwo allows access to extended networking capabilities of the DSi/3DS... It requires being able to access *Advanced* networking configurations (4, 5 or 6) to allow access to the Internet.

    The CycloDS iEvolution *claimed* to be able to access extended DSi capabilities... But from what I have read, it did not allow Homebrew applications to use extended networking capabilities of the DSi (and 3DS now).

    I welcome the insight other DS gamers have into this subject matter... Like I said, I am rather new to the DS development scene...
     
  5. questccg
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    questccg Member

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    I understand that *OLDER* games were developed for WEP. But NEXT GENERATION games - that want to utilise the Internet for gaming, should be able to use the *advanced* networking offered by the DSi/3DS... I mean why develop it and then not allow anyone to develop more software for it???

    I don't see what lawsuits have to do with the issue... Homebrew application (or game) development has not been *frowned* upon by Nintendo?

    Note: You need to understand that I am only talking about DSi/3DS not DS Fat/DS Light...
     
  6. Duo8

    Duo8 I don't like video games

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    Well, you should wait for 3DS homebrewing then. DSi homebrewing is pretty much dead.
    DSi/3DS games can use WPA.
    Also if you're making money from homebrews they might sue you.
     
  7. trumpet-205

    trumpet-205 Embrace the darkness within

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    Those DSi enhanced games actually contains DS only portion and DSi enhanced portion. Flashcart can only use DS only portion, meaning no WPA, extra CPU speed, etc capabilities. Flashcart tricks DSi and 3DS thinking it is a DS game. CycloDSi never managed to get DSi enhanced portion working, and later DSi firmware and 3DS completely blocked all DSi exploits. Nintendo signed all DSi and 3DS games, so flashcart manufacturers can't just tamper with a DSi/3DS game to have it intentionally crash boot into flashcart OS.

    And homebrew is frowned at when you intends to profit from it, like microtransaction. Nintendo is not getting a cut from your homebrew microtransaction. They WILL sue you unless you publish your game via official means (either publisher with contracts with Nintendo or directly Nintendo).
     
  8. questccg
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    questccg Member

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    Well I have a DSi and have only recently been *exploring* Homebrewing. I'm not certain 3DS Homebrewing will be any more advantageous for Homebrew developers...

    Does anyone know if the Supercard SDTwo allow *advanced* networking? I know they claim the cart works for current generation DSi with the latest flash versions.


    Why would you get sued for using the Internet with your Homebrew application? I don't think you can sue someone just because they are making money... It's not a VALID REASON to sue somebody! It's not like if you were SELLING or DISTRIBUTING ILLEGAL ROMS... That seems like a VALID reason to sue somebody. So carts that allow EMULATORS and such should be the first ones off the market. No carts that allow for Homebrew development with more powerful processor speeds and extra game memory...?!
     
  9. Duo8

    Duo8 I don't like video games

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    3DS is FAR more powerful than DS/DSi. Of course there will be advantages.
    DS2 runs in DS mode, so no.
     
  10. trumpet-205

    trumpet-205 Embrace the darkness within

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    Legally any flashcart, even those that only allows homebrew, is illegal because it circumvents AP protection. If Nintendo is in a bad mood they can sue you and the law is on their side, not yours.

    And no, no flashcart exists that can utilize DSi and 3DS capabilities.

    Again, you want to develop games with micro-transaction? Develop on PS Mobile or Ouya. Sony lends you free dev-kit on Vita while each retail Ouya can turned into dev-kit for free. Neither of them charges any fee for development or publishing, only taking a percentage cut on micro-tranction.
     
  11. questccg
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    questccg Member

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    I have another question to ask (it may sound stupid - but I wonder...):

    Do you guys RUN WEP Wi-Fi network at home in order to play Nintendo Multiplayer games???

    Is Nintendo saying we need to run insecure networks in order to play their DS games???

    And about Homebrew - I don't know how much it COSTS to be able to develop actual Nintendo DS/DSi games. I know only that Homebrew allows you to code your own applications such as a Organizer, Calculator, etc. Relevant applications that my freaken Cellular Phone has - but that don't come bundled with a DS/DSi...

    I'll post another thread in the Homebrew section to discuss it further (vs. somehow earning the right to develop licensed DS/DSi games). I'm a one-man coding machine... Homebrew seems like a way to comprehend how to develop software for the DS without going into legal agreements for licensing demo/Hello World applications that SHOULD work on more secured networks (like WPA)...
     
  12. trumpet-205

    trumpet-205 Embrace the darkness within

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    I just simply switch WPA2 to WEP should I need to use DS WiFi. By turning off SSID broadcast and using MAC address filter it is sufficient to deter amateur hackers.

    And no, cause official DSi enhanced game cartridge can use WPA on DSi and 3DS. Flashcart cannot use enhanced features. Nintendo develops game because it expect people to run game cartridge, not flashcart.
     
  13. Governa

    Governa Member

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    mate it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong or what you think you're entitled to, they can just drag your ass through court until you're bankrupt.
     
  14. questccg
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    questccg Member

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    Well for one thing I already own a piece of hardware, that is SUPPOSED to allow *advanced* networking with better encryption! Personally I think this must be anti-democratic (in my opinion). I've only recently gotten interested in Homebrew DS/DSi development (because of a game that I have been working on).

    I would love it if Nintendo gave me the rights to code a licensed application, with their DevKits and Nintendo development support , etc. Not sure what kind of support they really give or what kind of development kits they make available to developers interested in developing games...

    Like I said this is something *new* to me... and I wanted to see what is *out there*!
     
  15. trumpet-205

    trumpet-205 Embrace the darkness within

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    They'll gladly do that, if you go through the proper channel and let them getting their cut of the pie.

    Why would Nintendo support your development if they couldn't profit from it?
     
  16. Governa

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    No, I just enable internet sharing under OSX when I wanna play. The range is pretty short so not really much of a risk.
     
  17. questccg
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    questccg Member

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    Okay guys thanks for the feedback...

    I posted in the Homebrew forum a question about *licensing*. If anyone is interested in commenting, feel free to do so,

    I guess when I learned about "Homebrew" it felt as if DS development was something like Open Source Development: something achievable.

    Licensing with Nintendo seems like something *impossible* to do... Especially if I'm only *learning* how to develop with the platform...
     
  18. questccg
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    Note: I guess my conclusion is *for now*, develop WEP Homebrew software... I can implement the whole Internet Server Side of things, including things like *something-like* web services that could interact with my Homebrew software...

    HERE IS THE THING: I'm not even SURE my concept would work on a legal DS/DSi/3DS Slot 1 Cartridge.

    The reason I think this is because I plan to *deliver* DYNAMIC content to the application... Basically what it would mean would be having an Internet Server which the Homebrew application connects and allows a DS gamer to download special *packs* which are game updates... Now not the game itself (Not updates) but updates to the *DATA* portion of the game.

    A *dumb* example would be to download NEW levels... (That's not what I want to do... but it's a VALID example). And I can handle all the software development of the Server Side of things...

    I'm just NEW to the Nintendo DS/DSi scene...
     
  19. Duo8

    Duo8 I don't like video games

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    That is only possible with homebrews. You can program your app to download to the mSD.
    Otherwise you'll need a special card w/ NAND save chip like WarioWare DIY.
     
  20. questccg
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    questccg Member

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    Well I am still *searching* but the DSi has a Slot 2 SDHC card... I have not found a *source* of how to access the card, however I think it works as a FAT file system... And I have read that the Filesystem for such a card can be used by Slot 1 cartridge...

    So basically the application would require a Slot 2 SDHC card... I guess you could check and if there is no card, the application defaults to the primary state where nothing has been downloaded for the app (first time use).

    On the other hand, if there is a Slot 2 SDHC card, it could check the filesystem for app related data (given filesystem structure - found on http://dsibrew.org/wiki/Main_Page). You can make use of the *private/* folder for all Nintendo DATA...

    And then the app would *load* up dynamic content in-memory (4mb - on the DS I believe). But for my application, it can be even smarter and only load the data that you use with the app... Basically you could download all kinds of stuff and then use only certain portions... So I think I could get away with the lower memory. But 16mb (for the DSi) would have been very desirable...

    Again still *looking* into the DS Light/DSi options...