Autoupdating is a rumor. Nobody on this Earth (or anywhere else from what I know) was automatically updated from 3.4 to 4.0..
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3.4 does not have any trace of auto-updating. The most auto-updating that'll occur is a WiiConnect24 notification.collectedsoul said:
3.2 is the best hacks-wise since it was the last update before Nintendo started the cat and mouse game. It has all of the bugs intact, and most hacks like Starfall were designed for it.
The focus is slowly shifting from 3.2 to 4.0 due to the SD Card Menu. Make sure you install the Homebrew Channel and cIOS BEFORE upgrading to 4.0 (if you intend to)!
@dialexio:
you've helped me out but also confused me a little
Should I consider upgrading to 4.0 then?
And I'm sorry if I used the term auto update wrongly - I meant that 3.4 automatically installs updates from new games? Does it do that - thats what I had read... If so, can this be prevented by any way other than downgrade? (I really dont like the idea of downgrading personally...do I really have to??)
you've helped me out but also confused me a little
Should I consider upgrading to 4.0 then?
And I'm sorry if I used the term auto update wrongly - I meant that 3.4 automatically installs updates from new games? Does it do that - thats what I had read... If so, can this be prevented by any way other than downgrade? (I really dont like the idea of downgrading personally...do I really have to??)
@collectedsoul
Leave 4.0 for now, it has nothing that can not be done relatively easily on 3.2 (VC/Wiiware can be replicated with wad manager and in my opinion it is probably better) and SDHC has been there for months. As hacks progress then it may come time to reconsider things but leave it for now.
Quick explanation. Nintendo signs wii code to say all is good (or at least it thinks it is) and we can not break this signing due to mathematics, Nintendo managed to break the checking of the signing in earlier versions ( http://debugmo.de/?p=61 ) but for the most part fixed it from 3.3 onwards, you can update things (IOS modules for instance) but can not install lower versions via "official methods" which is all you have until you get a way around signing.
3.4 fixed most bugs but it left the IOS16 (ios16-64-v257-prod.wad) with the trucha/signing bug, IOS16 is only found on the Nintendo fixing disc/Wii BackupDisc so you can not pull it from a game (but you can get it elsewhere). Now as Nintendo have signed it to say all is good but it still has the bug we can install it on an otherwise patched system* this then gets used to downgrade/install everything again.
*4.0 as was mentioned added a fixed version of IOS16 blocking this method. You can hack IOS modules before/during updates using a third party update method or add IOS modules the wii update does not expect (cIOS 249 being the main one) and then hack it back afterwards but if you have no hacked/bug containing IOS module you are out of luck for now. I do not suggest doing this until more testing has been done, hacks ported and reverse engineering is complete (I reckon two weeks before I could consider such a thing but even then it would still be pointless from where I stand).
As for autoupdates no game or other method updates automatically without your consent, all will give you the option (note on wii chess http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Title_database ).
Leave 4.0 for now, it has nothing that can not be done relatively easily on 3.2 (VC/Wiiware can be replicated with wad manager and in my opinion it is probably better) and SDHC has been there for months. As hacks progress then it may come time to reconsider things but leave it for now.
Quick explanation. Nintendo signs wii code to say all is good (or at least it thinks it is) and we can not break this signing due to mathematics, Nintendo managed to break the checking of the signing in earlier versions ( http://debugmo.de/?p=61 ) but for the most part fixed it from 3.3 onwards, you can update things (IOS modules for instance) but can not install lower versions via "official methods" which is all you have until you get a way around signing.
3.4 fixed most bugs but it left the IOS16 (ios16-64-v257-prod.wad) with the trucha/signing bug, IOS16 is only found on the Nintendo fixing disc/Wii BackupDisc so you can not pull it from a game (but you can get it elsewhere). Now as Nintendo have signed it to say all is good but it still has the bug we can install it on an otherwise patched system* this then gets used to downgrade/install everything again.
*4.0 as was mentioned added a fixed version of IOS16 blocking this method. You can hack IOS modules before/during updates using a third party update method or add IOS modules the wii update does not expect (cIOS 249 being the main one) and then hack it back afterwards but if you have no hacked/bug containing IOS module you are out of luck for now. I do not suggest doing this until more testing has been done, hacks ported and reverse engineering is complete (I reckon two weeks before I could consider such a thing but even then it would still be pointless from where I stand).
As for autoupdates no game or other method updates automatically without your consent, all will give you the option (note on wii chess http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Title_database ).
First of all thanks for another helpful post. Just a few qs related to what you said...
So, 4.0 has no significant benefits compared to leaving the machine at 3.4 or the preferred 3.2? (rhetorical qs)
All things considered what would you suggest? Should I leave the system at 3.4 or downgrade to 3.2?
FAST6191 said:
So, 4.0 has no significant benefits compared to leaving the machine at 3.4 or the preferred 3.2? (rhetorical qs)
All things considered what would you suggest? Should I leave the system at 3.4 or downgrade to 3.2?
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Due to the recent release of the USB loader, I have to say that the USB loader has the fastest speed!
The only thing Modchips have over Softmods is that they have the ability to update without losing anything.
The only thing Modchips have over Softmods is that they have the ability to update without losing anything.
IOS basics. The wii has a powerpc processor and an ARM one, the IOS are small self contained pieces of code that run on the ARM processor.
The IOS control the hardware for the most part* and allow developers easy methods of doing things without coding their own low level stuff (or depending on the people you speak to it is to prevent the developers knowing too much).
* newer homebrew with the likes of bootmii and linux are looking to move away from IOS but commercial games still use them and will continue to for as long as the wii continues.
As trying to make every new tweak to IOS compatible with the last and all apps that use it would be near impossible we have multiple IOS modules on the wii, they can still be updated for bugfixes though which in theory should be orders of magnitude easier than trying to add new functionality while maintaining compatibility with older programs. This is also a major limitation of the wii compared to the likes of the 360 and PS3 in which updates like headset communication can be used for older games due to it being a menu thing not a game thing. It should be noted that the vast majority of games can use any of the major IOS modules without issue (indeed such a thing is crucial to many of the softmod methods) due to them only using a few select/common parts of the IOS like the code for controllers or something, rock band is a good example of something that does not work with all of them.
These IOS modules also have a version number associated with them. The wii will prevent earlier IOS modules being installed and due to them being signed we can not just change this number to a higher version without breaking the signing.
Just to finish it off signing takes a hash of a file (hashing: quick example is odd or even for a number I send 42 and odd you say something went wrong*, again http://hackmii.com/2008/04/keys-keys-keys/ and http://debugmo.de/?p=61 if you would like to understand tech behind the wii stuff) and then "encrypts" (actually it just uses the unique nature of the hash to generate another number) this list of hashes so you can not change things without it knowing. As mentioned this signing uses RSA (well multiple levels/tweaks but it still RSA), this allows you to use one number (the private key) to sign and another (the public key) to check. This private key is the holy grail of all wii hacking, while the private and the public key are mathematically related it would take a serious amount of computing power to find it so nobody is really looking for it.
*odd or even is very poor for hashing purposes (there are just as many odd numbers as even) but it was just for the sake of example, real hashing is far less prone to generating easily faked hashes like that.
Back on topic
You can hack 3.4, as I said the IOS modules were all patched for the trucha bug* with the official 3.4 update aside from IOS 16. The system menu hacks like starfall are geared towards 3.2 and that is why we suggest this version (starfall is really good), all the stuff like the updated shopping channel (not that you will really need it) has been backported by hackers for earlier menu versions (and now 4.0 is out 3.4 is completely obsolete in this regard).
* earlier menus only patched the current/highest IOS module leaving a whole bunch to play with.
There are other downgrading guides that have nice pictures and whatnot but the actual process is very simple:
1 line version: You find IOS16 and install it, this allows you to mod things like the system menu and other IOS modules due to it not doing proper signing but still being authenticated by Nintendo.
Longer version:
You install the twilight hack (it needs to be beta 2 from what I recall if you are on 3.4)
You install the homebrew channel (it uses a different bug that was never disclosed and 4.0 stopped)
You run wad manager and install IOS 16. This allows you to mod things on the NAND for the reasons above.
You run the IOS downgrader, this makes all your IOS have the signing bug/similar. cIOS downgrader is for those with a cIOS installed (cIOS is a custom IOS not made by Nintendo, naturally they are hacked nice and good but is not signed properly).
Now you have a nicely hackable wii and you have a choice.
3.4 can run most things but not starfall and starfall as mentioned is really good (each one is optional and you can do most of it via software but with starfall it is there all the time without fuss):
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_apps/Starfall
* Region free GC games with video mode patch
* Region free Wii games
* Region free channels (VC/wiiware)
* No mainmenu BGM
* Start rescue-menu when Y is held on 1st GC controller
* Remove rescue-menu diagnostic disc check
* Replace health warning with backmenu
* Skip disc update check
3.2 also allows cIOScorp which hacks all the existing wii modules and channels to allow copied games to run from the menu (this is risky and not something I would consider if you do not know exactly what goes).
Back on topic you your options,
Once you have downgraded IOS modules you can install a cIOS and use the softmod apps (like wiigators gamma launcher) to launch games.
For what it is worth the downgrade to 3.2 is very simple, very quick and while not risk free very low risk.
Several methods but I suggest
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/AnyRegion_Changer (the 3.2 hacking options are at the bottom of the page)
Some say you should install preloader (brick protection mainly) and then downgrade your wii:http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Preloader
I say entirely up to you.
Also re USB loader: I was going to wait a week for it all to settle down and then see where things lay, it is looking very good though.
The IOS control the hardware for the most part* and allow developers easy methods of doing things without coding their own low level stuff (or depending on the people you speak to it is to prevent the developers knowing too much).
* newer homebrew with the likes of bootmii and linux are looking to move away from IOS but commercial games still use them and will continue to for as long as the wii continues.
As trying to make every new tweak to IOS compatible with the last and all apps that use it would be near impossible we have multiple IOS modules on the wii, they can still be updated for bugfixes though which in theory should be orders of magnitude easier than trying to add new functionality while maintaining compatibility with older programs. This is also a major limitation of the wii compared to the likes of the 360 and PS3 in which updates like headset communication can be used for older games due to it being a menu thing not a game thing. It should be noted that the vast majority of games can use any of the major IOS modules without issue (indeed such a thing is crucial to many of the softmod methods) due to them only using a few select/common parts of the IOS like the code for controllers or something, rock band is a good example of something that does not work with all of them.
These IOS modules also have a version number associated with them. The wii will prevent earlier IOS modules being installed and due to them being signed we can not just change this number to a higher version without breaking the signing.
Just to finish it off signing takes a hash of a file (hashing: quick example is odd or even for a number I send 42 and odd you say something went wrong*, again http://hackmii.com/2008/04/keys-keys-keys/ and http://debugmo.de/?p=61 if you would like to understand tech behind the wii stuff) and then "encrypts" (actually it just uses the unique nature of the hash to generate another number) this list of hashes so you can not change things without it knowing. As mentioned this signing uses RSA (well multiple levels/tweaks but it still RSA), this allows you to use one number (the private key) to sign and another (the public key) to check. This private key is the holy grail of all wii hacking, while the private and the public key are mathematically related it would take a serious amount of computing power to find it so nobody is really looking for it.
*odd or even is very poor for hashing purposes (there are just as many odd numbers as even) but it was just for the sake of example, real hashing is far less prone to generating easily faked hashes like that.
Back on topic
You can hack 3.4, as I said the IOS modules were all patched for the trucha bug* with the official 3.4 update aside from IOS 16. The system menu hacks like starfall are geared towards 3.2 and that is why we suggest this version (starfall is really good), all the stuff like the updated shopping channel (not that you will really need it) has been backported by hackers for earlier menu versions (and now 4.0 is out 3.4 is completely obsolete in this regard).
* earlier menus only patched the current/highest IOS module leaving a whole bunch to play with.
There are other downgrading guides that have nice pictures and whatnot but the actual process is very simple:
1 line version: You find IOS16 and install it, this allows you to mod things like the system menu and other IOS modules due to it not doing proper signing but still being authenticated by Nintendo.
Longer version:
You install the twilight hack (it needs to be beta 2 from what I recall if you are on 3.4)
You install the homebrew channel (it uses a different bug that was never disclosed and 4.0 stopped)
You run wad manager and install IOS 16. This allows you to mod things on the NAND for the reasons above.
You run the IOS downgrader, this makes all your IOS have the signing bug/similar. cIOS downgrader is for those with a cIOS installed (cIOS is a custom IOS not made by Nintendo, naturally they are hacked nice and good but is not signed properly).
Now you have a nicely hackable wii and you have a choice.
3.4 can run most things but not starfall and starfall as mentioned is really good (each one is optional and you can do most of it via software but with starfall it is there all the time without fuss):
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_apps/Starfall
* Region free GC games with video mode patch
* Region free Wii games
* Region free channels (VC/wiiware)
* No mainmenu BGM
* Start rescue-menu when Y is held on 1st GC controller
* Remove rescue-menu diagnostic disc check
* Replace health warning with backmenu
* Skip disc update check
3.2 also allows cIOScorp which hacks all the existing wii modules and channels to allow copied games to run from the menu (this is risky and not something I would consider if you do not know exactly what goes).
Back on topic you your options,
Once you have downgraded IOS modules you can install a cIOS and use the softmod apps (like wiigators gamma launcher) to launch games.
For what it is worth the downgrade to 3.2 is very simple, very quick and while not risk free very low risk.
Several methods but I suggest
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/AnyRegion_Changer (the 3.2 hacking options are at the bottom of the page)
Some say you should install preloader (brick protection mainly) and then downgrade your wii:http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Preloader
I say entirely up to you.
Also re USB loader: I was going to wait a week for it all to settle down and then see where things lay, it is looking very good though.
Hi again
Its great that you explain things on such an 'atomic' level, I understand the functioning of the wii and the importance of IOS much better now...but its a little difficult to put it together at the macro level for me.
So please correct me if I'm wrong but what I've understood is
1) that to run hacked stuff on 3.4 it is requiredd to downgrade to lower IOSes from the 3.2 version which have the signing bug
2) that I might as well downgrade the system completely from 3.4 to 3.2 if I have to downgrade IOS anyway
Am I logically correct on these two counts?
On a side note, is there a tutorial for installing usb loader using windows out there? The one on this forum seems to have been removed - the first post of the tutorial is blank..
Its great that you explain things on such an 'atomic' level, I understand the functioning of the wii and the importance of IOS much better now...but its a little difficult to put it together at the macro level for me.
So please correct me if I'm wrong but what I've understood is
1) that to run hacked stuff on 3.4 it is requiredd to downgrade to lower IOSes from the 3.2 version which have the signing bug
2) that I might as well downgrade the system completely from 3.4 to 3.2 if I have to downgrade IOS anyway
Am I logically correct on these two counts?
On a side note, is there a tutorial for installing usb loader using windows out there? The one on this forum seems to have been removed - the first post of the tutorial is blank..
Re: low level explanations, afraid that is the only way I roll.
First downgrading the menu will not downgrade the IOS modules (using the existing methods anyway), you need both the menu downgrader (any region changer) and the IOS downgrader.
"hacked stuff" for anything really good (hacked menus, disc loaders, wiiware/VC installing and custom channels) then an IOS with the trucha bug is needed, for most other homebrew provided you load it via the homebrew channel you can get away without it.
Long story short if you have found yourself at this website and are interested in what goes here you need to do it.
2) That would be my opinion, 3.4 offers absolutely nothing that 3.2 does not (especially now it is not the current menu and even when it was it did not offer anything that could not be otherwise obtained).
I am not too well read on the USB loader right now but how it works:
The wii has USB ports, like most other hardware the IOS plays a role in using it. Recently people managed to the IOS to use the USB 2.0 standard as opposed to the slower 1.1 (similar idea to the addition of SDHC http://svenpeter.blogspot.com/2008/11/sdhc...rt-for-wii.html ), this also means a viable USB loader could appear.
The first part of the install is akin to the softmod, you install a custom IOS geared for it and either add something to the homebrew channel to launch with or add a channel to the menu.
Now data is not just stored on the disc, it has some extra stuff to tell the drive where everything is (this is the file system).
There are many file systems with advantages and disadvantages, windows uses FAT, FAT32 and NTFS. The former lack decent large file support and NTFS is a proprietary and complex file system for which there are minimal free drivers* (not to mention a likely resource hit for using it).
Rather than fiddle with an existing one a new one was made (if it will stay this way or not is up for debate):
WBFS: Wii backup file system.
The initial drivers were for linux (which is far more accepting of new/different file systems) but more on that is a second.
*there are some decent ones available but not the sort of thing you would use here.
The initial formatting of the drive can be done by the wii and indeed you probably should do it if windows is your OS of choice.
More here:
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144862
Now comes accessing the drive with the new file system, you can install games via the wii but assuming you do not want to do that then you need some method of accessing the WBFS drive.
Multiple tools exist for Windows now (and indeed I have tried none of them so I am not inclined to say what goes), they are appearing at the rate of one per couple of hours right now and provided you read the documentation that comes with them then they should all work, I will leave it you to find one you like
Some links to save you hassle (there are certainly more)
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=145198
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144...t=0&start=0
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=145...t=0&start=0
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144873
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144...t=0&start=0
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144...t=0&start=0
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144981
A collection of a few of them:
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=145002
There are three main methods:
command line (good for batches although perhaps not the most friendly)
self contained GUI, fairly simplistic but they get the job done.
FTP app style, two sections with one for the drive and the other for the computer.
Some are fully contained and some are just frontends for command line apps. This does not really matter for the end user.
And a linux one:
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144844
A final option is a linux live CD, most of the major distros can do this and there are few more offbeat ones like puppy linux, damn small linux and knoppix that are designed for it. Add in a way for the linux drivers to work (while they may be more offbeat many can accept the larger distros files) on this self contained distros and all should be good.
First downgrading the menu will not downgrade the IOS modules (using the existing methods anyway), you need both the menu downgrader (any region changer) and the IOS downgrader.
"hacked stuff" for anything really good (hacked menus, disc loaders, wiiware/VC installing and custom channels) then an IOS with the trucha bug is needed, for most other homebrew provided you load it via the homebrew channel you can get away without it.
Long story short if you have found yourself at this website and are interested in what goes here you need to do it.
2) That would be my opinion, 3.4 offers absolutely nothing that 3.2 does not (especially now it is not the current menu and even when it was it did not offer anything that could not be otherwise obtained).
I am not too well read on the USB loader right now but how it works:
The wii has USB ports, like most other hardware the IOS plays a role in using it. Recently people managed to the IOS to use the USB 2.0 standard as opposed to the slower 1.1 (similar idea to the addition of SDHC http://svenpeter.blogspot.com/2008/11/sdhc...rt-for-wii.html ), this also means a viable USB loader could appear.
The first part of the install is akin to the softmod, you install a custom IOS geared for it and either add something to the homebrew channel to launch with or add a channel to the menu.
Now data is not just stored on the disc, it has some extra stuff to tell the drive where everything is (this is the file system).
There are many file systems with advantages and disadvantages, windows uses FAT, FAT32 and NTFS. The former lack decent large file support and NTFS is a proprietary and complex file system for which there are minimal free drivers* (not to mention a likely resource hit for using it).
Rather than fiddle with an existing one a new one was made (if it will stay this way or not is up for debate):
WBFS: Wii backup file system.
The initial drivers were for linux (which is far more accepting of new/different file systems) but more on that is a second.
*there are some decent ones available but not the sort of thing you would use here.
The initial formatting of the drive can be done by the wii and indeed you probably should do it if windows is your OS of choice.
More here:
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144862
Now comes accessing the drive with the new file system, you can install games via the wii but assuming you do not want to do that then you need some method of accessing the WBFS drive.
Multiple tools exist for Windows now (and indeed I have tried none of them so I am not inclined to say what goes), they are appearing at the rate of one per couple of hours right now and provided you read the documentation that comes with them then they should all work, I will leave it you to find one you like
Some links to save you hassle (there are certainly more)
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=145198
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144...t=0&start=0
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=145...t=0&start=0
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144873
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144...t=0&start=0
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144...t=0&start=0
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144981
A collection of a few of them:
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=145002
There are three main methods:
command line (good for batches although perhaps not the most friendly)
self contained GUI, fairly simplistic but they get the job done.
FTP app style, two sections with one for the drive and the other for the computer.
Some are fully contained and some are just frontends for command line apps. This does not really matter for the end user.
And a linux one:
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=144844
A final option is a linux live CD, most of the major distros can do this and there are few more offbeat ones like puppy linux, damn small linux and knoppix that are designed for it. Add in a way for the linux drivers to work (while they may be more offbeat many can accept the larger distros files) on this self contained distros and all should be good.
Okay...so you've convinced me...I'm going to have to downgrade to 3.2
And apart from that thanks a bunch for all that info on usb loaders. Should be able to get it going with the help of those threads. Excellent stuff. Keep it up.
And apart from that thanks a bunch for all that info on usb loaders. Should be able to get it going with the help of those threads. Excellent stuff. Keep it up.
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The latest in a growing number of native PC ports, Paper Mario ReCut got its first pre-release build earlier this week. Based on the N64 recompilation toolchain, the... -
67 replies
PlayStation State of Play June 2, 2026 broadcast - new God of War announced
A whole hour of PlayStation content is on the way, thanks to the latest State of Play showcase. Headlining the stream will be Marvel's Wolverine, alongside a... -
63 replies
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 4 to launch on Nintendo Switch 2 in October
For the first time in 13 years, the Call of Duty series will again return to Nintendo's consoles. Set to launch on the 23rd of October, the latest release, Modern...
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